NatWest switching from Maestro to Visa Debit: any TOCs not accepting them?

[robertclark125]

If you've got an outstanding item to collect with an old card, I'd say take both the old card and the new card to the ticket office.

 

[mickey]

Visa Debit is pretty much accepted everywhere Visa Credit is. I've used Visa Debit for years, never had any problems with acceptence.

So have I: Nationwide debit cards have had them for as long as I can remember. The big difference is that unlike Maestro/Switch they can actually be processed with credit cards if necessary - hence certain retailers (especially overseas) that advertise only accepting credit can take them no problem, as I've encountered on several occasions, particularly in Poland for some reason. In fact the ONLY place I've ever had any problem at all with acceptance is in the Eurostar buffet car, where their little machine things throw a fit when you try to use it.

On a related note, my mum's been told by a few Northern guards that the new cards with 'contactless' technology in them don't react well with onboard payment machines and always have to be swiped manually (though as the rules state they must try the chip bit first they stand around like loonies knowing it'll fail). Does anyone know anything more about this, like why it happens, and whether it's a problem everywhere?

ETA: Death, as far as I know the machines read the card details to show they match with the booking, not to run a live check (which would presumably require a PIN to be entered some or all of the time?). Anyway, if it happens perhaps try it in the machine first and see what happens? The office will help if need be of course.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

On a related note, my mum's been told by a few Northern guards that the new cards with 'contactless' technology in them don't react well with onboard payment machines and always have to be swiped manually (though as the rules state they must try the chip bit first they stand around like loonies knowing it'll fail). Does anyone know anything more about this, like why it happens, and whether it's a problem everywhere?

Yes, this was the case. Avantix has recently received a software update which has cured this problem - although I'm aware this update may not have reached all TOCS yet.

 

[scrapy]

The reason Northern guards need to try the chip n pin 1st is because even though it says Declined, it will tell them the PIN is OK. If it says incorrect PIN then it will send alarm bells ringing about possible fraud.

One increasing problem is the number of under 18's who expect to pay by Visa Debit. Nat West previously issued Solo cards to under 18's and Maestro was for over 18's only. Now under 18's think they can pay with Visa Debit, but the machines decline them because thier offline limit is £0.

 

[Mojo]

How do TOCs cope with the prepaid cards; many of which are not marked "For electronic use only" and are normal cards in the sense they have 'MasterCard' or other brand logos. Have on-train staff been circulated a list of companies not to accept?

 

[dk1]

Advantix machines have had issues with Visa debit. It has been rumoured to cost NXEA around around £25k per-week in lost ticket sales. I have been told the problem should be solved shortly though.

 

[mickey]

The reason Northern guards need to try the chip n pin 1st is because even though it says Declined, it will tell them the PIN is OK. If it says incorrect PIN then it will send alarm bells ringing about possible fraud.

One increasing problem is the number of under 18's who expect to pay by Visa Debit. Nat West previously issued Solo cards to under 18's and Maestro was for over 18's only. Now under 18's think they can pay with Visa Debit, but the machines decline them because thier offline limit is £0.

1. PINs should only ever be entered when asked to authorise a transaction, and the customer MUST be shown the amount they are being asked to authorise first - in this case the transaction surely would not be able to get to this stage? In any case, (whether they're supposed to or not) Northern guards do not actually ask passengers to do this - fortunately, as I'd be very suspicious of anyone who did.

2. 'Visa Debit' cards are valid regardless of the age of the customer. Indeed, there is no need for a guard to ask a 17-year-old for proof of age as he/she would be buying an adult ticket anyway, so there's no way of knowing if the passenger is under 18. It's Visa Electron cards that are not accepted. It's not possible (or allowed) to say only some Visa Debit cards are valid and not others - this would be a nightmare for passengers and almost impossible to enforce. There's certainly no mention of such a differentiation in any literature or the NRCoC.

 

[Death]

One increasing problem is the number of under 18's who expect to pay by Visa Debit. Nat West previously issued Solo cards to under 18's and Maestro was for over 18's only. Now under 18's think they can pay with Visa Debit, but the machines decline them because thier offline limit is £0.

Actually...That's answered a mystery that I've been wondering about for a while: How can an Avantix machine (Or other offline device) accept my debit card for payments when debit transactions normally require live verification of funds in account?

Cheers, Scrapy!

2. 'Visa Debit' cards are valid regardless of the age of the customer. Indeed, there is no need for a guard to ask a 17-year-old for proof of age as he/she would be buying an adult ticket anyway, so there's no way of knowing if the passenger is under 18.

I have to say that I've always had to stifle a chuckle whenever I've seen Chavs trying to buy child tickets, presenting some form of major credit card for payment, and wondering why the fare suddenly goes up quite a bit! :razz:

 

[mickey]

I have to say that I've always had to stifle a chuckle whenever I've seen Chavs trying to buy child tickets, presenting some form of major credit card for payment, and wondering why the fare suddenly goes up quite a bit! :razz:

In their defence, it's perfectly legitimate for a parent to apply for an 'additional card' to be given to a child and added to their account. A certain amount of trust is implied, of course, but the American teen-flick portrayal of a ditsy blonde 15-y-o with daddy's credit card can sometimes not be too far from reality...

 

[Dolive22]

I just happened across the reason why carte bleu didn't work. EMV, which is used to securely check whether to approve a payment, isn't compatible with carte bleu and the other cards issued around 1992 in France. The newer French cards work fine.