Network Rail removes Islamic message on King's Cross display boards after fierce criticism

[infobleep]

Umm, a shop selling goods related to the extremely popular book and movie franchise of that name (which is of a "witches and wizards" type theme)?

I'm genuinely astonished you don't know what that is. Has the whole "platform 9 3/4" thing escaped your attention too? Crikey.

I thought it was a metaphor for something else and not literally a shop. I wasn't aware such a shop existed there anyway. I know about Platform 9¾.

In fairness, it would be hard to have a bank holiday for Eid (which would be the most appropriate time) since AIUI the timing depends on when the new moon is visible from Mecca, and so remains uncertain until the last moment.

I personally would quite like a bank holiday that occurs at the last minute but you don't know precisely when. I accept it would be hard to manage in a practical sense, especially for HR staff and part-time workers.

Do countries where the Muslim population is much greater, have a bank holiday for Eid and if so how do they cope?

 

[andythebrave]

Sorry but I just literally said Bob and immediately thought and sounded like Mr Bean

Pedant alert, you mean Blackadder I believe.

 

[Horizon22]

But to have responsibility for what goes on screens in such a major station presumably involves a certain degree of experience and maturity?

Not necessarily. I often find station controllers are "left to it" and are actually relatively junior roles yet have responsibility for station information boards. For general stuff outside of usual passenger information you would expect there to be some management oversight however. And certainly if something was posted and was incorrect and people started tweeting Network Rail about it or contacting customer services, something has gone wrong!

 

[High Dyke]

I see the OP quoted GB News. Move on, nothing to see here.

 

[Aviator88]

If not official, then some firm action needs to be taken against the staff responsible. Railway stations are not the place for religious statements, and every member of staff should be well aware of the terms of their employment.

I've not long received a contract of employment with a TOC, and it's very clear about expressing opinions that aren't directly related to the job itself.

 

[Silenos]

I personally would quite like a bank holiday that occurs at the last minute but you don't know precisely when. I accept it would be hard to manage in a practical sense, especially for HR staff and part-time workers.

Do countries where the Muslim population is much greater, have a bank holiday for Eid and if so how do they cope?

According to a site in the UAE:

Depending on the moon, Ramadan will last for either 29 or 30 days. If Ramadan lasts 29 days, residents will get six days off for Eid, from Monday, April 8 (Ramadan 29) to Thursday, April 11. Those who have a Saturday-Sunday weekend will have a six-day break with work resuming on Friday, April 12.

If it’s a 30-day Ramadan, the Eid break will run from Monday, April 8 (Ramadan 29) to Friday, April 12 (Shawwal 3). Meaning those who have a Saturday and Sunday weekend will have a nine-day break with work resuming on Monday, April 15.

 

[GarethW]

Ezekiel 7:7 would be far more appropriate for those poor sods having to travel out of Kings X or Euston.

 

[Krokodil]

Ezekiel 7:7 would be far more appropriate for those poor sods having to travel out of Kings X or Euston.

For those too lazy to Google:

The crisis has come for you who dwell in the land! The time has come, near is the day: panic, no rejoicing on the mountains

 

[Adam Williams]

1 Corinthians 9:24 is more apt for Euston.

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.

Obviously, the prize is a seat on a train that was announced 2 minutes before departure

 

[Silenos]

Or Judges 5:28?

Why is his carriage so long in coming? When will the noise of his wheels be sounding?

 

[Enthusiast]

As a Muslim, the start times (Fajr) and end times (Maghrib) would be useful as these change every day. I’ve been caught out before this Ramadan already, where I had to pop to get a chocolate and water to break my fast before continuing my journey.

Er...no.

Railway station information boards are there to provide information on the railway service. Nothing else.

I don't understand how you've been "caught out" by Ramadan, meaning you had to break your journey to buy comestibles. The times of sunset and sunrise are easily available and they only change by about two or three minutes each day, even around the equinoxes when the changes are at their greatest. As I understand it (though I have to accept I do not understand it too thoroughly), you must stop eating and drinking at sunrise but it is not decreed that you must resume immediately upon sunset. So you could complete your journey. If you are so hungry and/or thirsty that you must resume consumption immediately two things spring to mind: (1) should you really be fasting? and (2) if so, how about sticking a sandwich and a bottle of water in your rucksack?

Whatever the answer to those questions really makes no difference to this topic. Railway station information boards are not the place to provide assistance with your adherence .

I see the OP quoted GB News. Move on, nothing to see here.

Are you suggestion that perhaps it didn't happen then?

 

[greyman42]

If not official, then some firm action needs to be taken against the staff responsible. Railway stations are not the place for religious statements, and every member of staff should be well aware of the terms of their employment.

I remember the incident with the Tube driver leading the anti-semitic chanting on the train and that was swept under the carpet. As you say, railway stations are not the place for religious statements especially as the vast majority of the UK population have no real interest in religion of any kind.

 

[Oldgaloot]

I must confess I haven't read the whole thread, but can I be allowed to wonder whether what we're seeing here isn't analagous to what we've seen on various bank websites? That is: we're bang on the money for populist ideas and if you don't like it you can go and do the other thing. In my opinion it seems to result from allowing elderly teenagers to control social media or, in this case, display boards at stations.

 

[Ken H]

..

---

I would agree that a station noticeboard is not the place to be displaying religious texts, yes, but wishing people a Happy [insert festival here] is fine by me, especially if it's on a board that otherwise serves no real purpose.

These boards can be very full of lots of information and it can take a while to find the bit you need. Gumming it up with irrelevant stuff is no help. The extra text bit under the time should be used for important railway stuff, or should be blanks.

 

[Adam Williams]

Are you suggestion that perhaps it didn't happen then?

I don't think that suggestion was made at all, but it's a poor quality source that has repeatedly flouted the Ofcom Broadcasting Code and exists solely to generate engagement by whipping up a frenzy of controversy about most of the issues it discusses.

This isn't simply my personal opinion; much like the Daily Mail, there is now broad consensus that GB News is "generally unreliable" for referencing on the world's largest and highest-traffic encyclopedia. I don't see why this forum should be any more tolerant.

There are a multitude of more reliable, respectable sources that have now covered this and would have been a better choice to use in the OP.

 

[trebor79]

There shouldn't be any religious or political message of any kind whatsoever on any public information display. That includes "Merry Christmas" by the way. Totally inappropriate to be proselytising to people who are just trying to find out when their train is due.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I remember the incident with the Tube driver leading the anti-semitic chanting on the train and that was swept under the carpet. As you say, railway stations are not the place for religious statements especially as the vast majority of the UK population have no real interest in religion of any kind.

I think there's a fairly major difference between discriminatory behaviour e.g. antisemitic chanting and a message intended for a specific religion on a spare display.

 

[greyman42]

I think there's a fairly major difference between discriminatory behaviour e.g. antisemitic chanting and a message intended for a specific religion on a spare display.

Fair point.

I don't think that suggestion was made at all, but it's a poor quality source that has repeatedly flouted the Ofcom Broadcasting Code and exists solely to generate engagement by whipping up a frenzy of controversy about most of the issues it discusses.

There are a multitude of more reliable, respectable sources that have now covered this and would have been a better choice to use in the OP.

The GB News article was factually correct so i don't see any reason not to quote it.

 

[Adam Williams]

The GB News article was factually correct so i don't see any reason not to quote it.

Come on: Sometimes it's worth having a bit of a think about the bigger picture, like the way in which the issue has been presented, even if there is some truth included within the writing.

The article is full of sensationalist nonsense. Network Rail weren't "slammed", where is the evidence to support this idea that there has been "widespread outrage" (!!!!) over this issue? What makes the criticism "fierce"? If you can't see the inherent problems with this sort of editorialising, I don't know what to tell you.

The suggestion from a 7-times-failed-to-be-elected wannabe politician that Britain is a "Christian country" is also laughable when the census clearly shows the majority of Brits don't consider themselves to be Christian at all. About the only part of the article that's fairly neutral and balanced - and actually considers the crux of the issue at hand - is the statement from the NSS (which I'd expect, they do good work).

This sort of "journalism" is great for encouraging folks to share and click-through to the article though, and will help GB News to pay off a little of their £76m deficit with a bit of ad revenue

It's quite unfortunate that this thread has now inherited the same rage-baiting title, and on other sites there would be a better approach to handling a discussion like this.

 

[TUC]

Come on: Sometimes it's worth having a bit of a think about the bigger picture, like the way in which the issue has been presented, even if there is some truth included within the writing.

The article is full of sensationalist nonsense. Network Rail weren't "slammed", where is the evidence to support this idea that there has been "widespread outrage" (!!!!) over this issue? What makes the criticism "fierce"? If you can't see the inherent problems with this sort of editorialising, I don't know what to tell you.

The suggestion from a 7-times-failed-to-be-elected wannabe politician that Britain is a "Christian country" is also laughable when the census clearly shows the majority of Brits don't consider themselves to be Christian at all. About the only part of the article that's fairly neutral and balanced - and actually considers the crux of the issue at hand - is the statement from the NSS (which I'd expect, they do good work).

This sort of "journalism" is great for encouraging folks to share and click-through to the article though, and will help GB News to pay off a little of their £76m deficit with a bit of ad revenue

It's quite unfortunate that this thread has now inherited the same rage-baiting title, and on other sites there would be a better approach to handling a discussion like this.

As a Christian, I agree that the UK is not a Christian country. However, the criticism is far from contained with GB News. It is elsewhere and is fierce-and rightly so. Why would any staff member with any common sense think that posting on screen verses with respect to any religion is acceptable?

 

[Revilo]

Do you believe the same then for the Christmas messages every year? Or is that different for some reason...

Christianity is a moderate religion and the King is head of the Church of England. Neither are true of Islam.

 

[Adam Williams]

However, the criticism is far from contained with GB News. It is elsewhere

I don't dispute it has been criticised.

But the BBC's article acknowledges and documents the criticism, the reasoning for the criticism (as well as some of the limited support the message got) in a much more sensible, grown-up and nuanced way, as does the NSS's own coverage and Humanists UK's twitter thread.

 

[Ediswan]

As I understand it (though I have to accept I do not understand it too thoroughly), you must stop eating and drinking at sunset but it is not decreed that you must resume immediately upon sunrise.

You that backwards. Fasting is from dawn to sunset.

 

[Boodiggy]

If not official, then some firm action needs to be taken against the staff responsible. Railway stations are not the place for religious statements, and every member of staff should be well aware of the terms of their employment.

Agreed.

 

[GusB]

Christianity is a moderate religion and the King is head of the Church of England. Neither are true of Islam.

Any practicing Muslims I've come across have been moderate and just want to live their ordinary lives in the same way the rest of us do; I've met far more intolerant Christians. Anyway, I'm not certain that you can claim Christianity to be moderate - clearly you've never heard of the Westboro Baptist Church!

As for the king - what's he got to do with it? The Church of England is just one Christian denomination out of many.

 

[Purple Train]

There shouldn't be any religious or political message of any kind whatsoever on any public information display. That includes "Merry Christmas" by the way. Totally inappropriate to be proselytising to people who are just trying to find out when their train is due.

If it's on a spare display that is otherwise unused/used only for "welcome to Kings Cross"-style messages, with no intention for it to be used to display train times, I don't see what the issue is with acknowledging major festivals.

As for "proselytising": when I wish someone a Merry Christmas, I am not intending to convert them to Christianity with just that message. I feel fairly sure that the same is true of 99.9% of the population, quite possibly more.

Any practicing Muslims I've come across have been moderate and just want to live their ordinary lives in the same way the rest of us do; I've met far more intolerant Christians. Anyway, I'm not certain that you can claim Christianity to be moderate - clearly you've never heard of the Westboro Baptist Church!

I think classifying a religion as either extreme or moderate is ill-advised at best, given that some adherents/denominations etc. will be more or less extreme than others.

 

[Horizon22]

If it's on a spare display that is otherwise unused/used only for "welcome to Kings Cross"-style messages, with no intention for it to be used to display train times, I don't see what the issue is with acknowledging major festivals.

As for "proselytising": when I wish someone a Merry Christmas, I am not intending to convert them to Christianity with just that message. I feel fairly sure that the same is true of 99.9% of the population, quite possibly more.

I think classifying a religion as either extreme or moderate is ill-advised at best, given that some adherents/denominations etc. will be more or less extreme than others.

It's a "special notice" display. So where you might see info about upcoming weekend engineering works, events, or service disruption overview info. If none of those apply then yes it may show "Welcome to Kings Cross" default messaging.

I see no harm in a "Ramadan Mubarak" or "Merry Christmas" message which keeps it simple and generalised.

 

[randyrippley]

...........As I understand it (though I have to accept I do not understand it too thoroughly), you must stop eating and drinking at sunset but it is not decreed that you must resume immediately upon sunrise. ...............

You've got that the wrong way round
The fasting is during the day

 

[Chester1]

Its unthinkable that a bible quote about sin would have been on departure board at Kings Cross in the 2020s. There shouldn't be a dispensation for islam or any other religion. Happy Christmas, Eid Mubarak etc are much, much more cultural and I don't have a problem with them.

I don't know if I was alone in seeing it and thinking "London...." Quoting any religious text for the sake of diversity is indicative of bubble decision making by some very liberal people.

 

[vuzzeho]

I don't think they should've done it - I feel like official railway information spaces are for information and not religious messaging. Of any kind, even Christianity. I think it is going to, unfortunately, fuel anti-Muslim hate, which is very sad. Maybe a more generic message might've worked better.