New Bradford to Huddersfield route

[Arkeeos]

I would be more comfortable giving a judgement to whether NPR will happen if someone could tell me what NPR actually is in definable terms.

 

[wilbers]

Why. It would be faster and cheaper to reinstate the Wortley Curve, less than 0.25 miles, and would enable a sub 1 hour journey - for both of its users...

Disused Yorkshire rail line to go up for auction despite calls for line to be re-instated

A disused stretch of rail line that has been touted as being a way to improve services in Yorkshire will go to auction in the New Year.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

There have been calls in recent years for the line to be re-instated, as it would allow trains to travel from Bradford to Wakefield and beyond without having to pass through Leeds Station. But the site, next to Wortley Recreation Ground in Leeds, will go under the hammer at an online auction on January 30 with a guide price of just £15,000.

Reinstatement not an option for much longer depending on who buys it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Disused Yorkshire rail line to go up for auction despite calls for line to be re-instated

A disused stretch of rail line that has been touted as being a way to improve services in Yorkshire will go to auction in the New Year.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Reinstatement not an option for much longer depending on who buys it.

Good. Reversals aren't a problem except in the heads of a few people. The time saved for a hypothetical Wakefield Westgate to Bradford Interchange journey would be at most ten minutes, and the loss of revenue from not serving Leeds simply wouldn't be worth it.

 

[fishwomp]

Good.

I disagree that this is a good thing. Curves are very useful things to retain, and very expensive to recreate in future.

At just £15k, it's daft to sell, daft to have given it away to another company to be sold. It's not that this was the best curve ever, but it's so short, it's hardly worth having killed it in the first place, and now selling it.

Reversals aren't a problem except in the heads of a few people.

.. and freight, and loco hauled specials. We don't know what freight opportunities might arise from redeveloping Bradford in the future.

The time saved for a hypothetical Wakefield Westgate to Bradford Interchange journey would be at most ten minutes, and the loss of revenue from not serving Leeds simply wouldn't be worth it.

Indeed.

 

[HSTEd]

.. and freight, and loco hauled specials. We don't know what freight opportunities might arise from redeveloping Bradford in the future.

Freight trains are highly unlikely to be using the line in the first place, and loco hauled specials can either be rigged for reversal or pay for the full commercial cost of infrastructure. Special trains and railtours play no essential economic or social purpose and should not be subsidised by the taxpayer.

 

[fishwomp]

Freight trains are highly unlikely to be using the line in the first place, and loco hauled specials can either be rigged for reversal or pay for the full commercial cost of infrastructure.

Let me rephrase everything in my post.. you have not read it correctly.

My comment was that _reversals_ are a problem for railtours and freight. I didn't say we should be building curves for railtours.

I said we should be keeping the land, not selling it, because of future _freight_ possibilities. Selling it isn't worth it. I didn't say current freight. Bradford doesn't have the industry any more (_currently_), last thing I remember seeing as freight in the area was the Laisterdyke scrap yard - which would route via Whitehall curve.

I didn't say keep it for _current_ freight, and certainly not for railtours.

Special trains and railtours play no essential economic or social purpose and should not be subsidised by the taxpayer.

People have had stranger things prescribed on the health service in other countries..

 

[61653 HTAFC]

and freight, and loco hauled specials. We don't know what freight opportunities might arise from redeveloping Bradford in the future.

Loco-hauled specials do not make a business case on their own. Especially for this particular curve, as you still have the Bradford Interchange reversal to deal with. The same applies to freight. Any freight service which could be started can operate by running through Leeds station at quieter times and wouldn't need this curve reinstating.

If the curve had survived until now, I wouldn't be suggesting it be closed- but that's a world away from putting it back to save five to ten minutes on a journey between two small and economically insignificant cities by bypassing a much larger and more important one... or retaining the land in the hope of a very narrow window of possible freight uses.
The land has limited strategic value. There's perhaps a case that the value of the land for redevelopment could be higher, but there are no problems that would be solved by retaining it.

People have had stranger things prescribed on the health service in other countries.

I'm not sure I get the relevance of this point.

 

[YorksLad12]

At just £15k, it's daft to sell, daft to have given it away to another company to be sold. It's not that this was the best curve ever, but it's so short, it's hardly worth having killed it in the first place, and now selling it.

Forum whip-round? 15,000 divided by 71,766 members is... er... doable.

 

[Sapphire Blue]

£15,000 is the guide price.
It could go for a lot more.

 

[Halifaxlad]

the loss of revenue from not serving Leeds simply wouldn't be worth it

I dont think Ive ever seen a statement that perfectly demonstrates this perculiar insistence that everything must serve Leeds!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I dont think Ive ever seen a statement that perfectly demonstrates this perculiar insistence that everything must serve Leeds!

We've somehow ended up with two threads discussing this particular curve, but I'll respond to this one here.

It's not so much an "insistence that everything must serve Leeds", it's a recognition that this particular curve is only a mile away from Leeds station, so any time saving from using the curve rather than serving Leeds will be minimal. If we were discussing a curve that would save a detour of seven or eight miles (such as the disused Horbury curve) the benefits of reinstatement would be greater.

 

[Halifaxlad]

My suggestion for Manchester - Bradford trains is a new route from Huddersfield to Halifax, tunneled under Netheroyd Hill, emerging to cross the Calder through the industrial estate near Elland. A little over 5 miles total of which around 4 would be in tunnel. Shown in yellow below, it saves almost half the distance going via Brighouse (blue) and would be faster clearly with fewer junctions and interactions with other services to negotiate. With the more numerous Manchester - Leeds trains going via Dewsbury, I envisage a comparatively limited service this way of say 2PTH in each direction so with a section time of little more than 5 minutes, maybe a partially single-line configuration might suffice for the tunnel sections, if safety and evacuation issues could be managed. The Netheroyd Hill Tunnel would be a little under 3 miles long I imagine. Using existing route between Halifax and Bradfor, so still quite a way round via Halifax but with the leg from Huddersfield made much shorther and faster and allowing a call at the significant town Halifax en route:

View attachment 148000

Considering the overall distance going via Halifax I don't believe it could be justified. Besides I think the section from Brighouse especially upon the Halifax side of the hill would be incredible problematic to construct. Ironically this is the area I know only too well!

If we were to tunnel for part of the way it would probably make sense to completely bypass the houses on the trackbed on the old Pickle Bridge route and tunnel under Wyke before rejoining the Calder Valley line just North of Low Moor station which might need to be slewed over to the left to create the junction. I can't see that one being too particular challenging.

What I would also do is to realign the tunnel from Huddersfield towards the Pickle Bridge route, bypasing the old curvy route and this site of this yet to be created Clifton business park. In all you would end up using only about 1.7km of the original Pickle Bridge route.

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Since its only proposed to be a half hourly service between Bradford & Huddersfield I would also build a station near to Bailiff Bridge. Which should please HADRAG as they don't seem too keen on this new line. Also this would be right next to the proposed housing growth area thingy at Thornhills.

 

[stephen rp]

I've picked up on the Green Signals interview with rail minister Merriman on another thread. They didn't really get to NPR to challenge what he said that there's £2bn for a new station and Bradford and a journey time of 30 minutes Bradford to Manchester.

Is there anything published anywhere that says this isn't just as much tosh as the £12bn for Manchester to High Legh?