New direct rail service to link Edinburgh and Wales "for the first time"

[och aye]

Is the headline correct that this new CrossCountry service will be the first time that Scotland and Wales have a direct rail service? Did British Rail or the previous private rail company's not ever have a Scotland-Wales service in the past?

New direct rail service to link Edinburgh and Wales for the first time

A rail service linking Scotland, Wales and England with one train journey is to start running for the first time.

www.heraldscotland.com

New direct rail service to link Edinburgh and Wales for the first time

A rail service linking Scotland, Wales and England with one train journey is to start running for the first time.

Long distance train operator CrossCountry has announced a new weekday service between Edinburgh, Cardiff and the South of England, which is due to start rolling out in December.

The 455-mile journey will connect 22 stations between the capitals of Wales and Scotland directly by rail.

 

[Steve4031]

The article mentions that two voyager trainsets will operate between Edinburgh and Gloucester. They will split with one train set continuing to Cardiff and the other to Plymouth.

 

[Envoy]

It is not the first time that trains have operated on this route between Cardiff & Edinburgh. Virgin Trains did operate services linking CDF & EDB when they had the new Voyager fleet.

 

[hexagon789]

Is the headline correct that this new CrossCountry service will be the first time that Scotland and Wales have a direct rail service? Did British Rail or the previous private rail company's not ever have a Scotland-Wales service in the past?

New direct rail service to link Edinburgh and Wales for the first time

A rail service linking Scotland, Wales and England with one train journey is to start running for the first time.

www.heraldscotland.com

New direct rail service to link Edinburgh and Wales for the first time

Definitely not the first - There was the Caledonian (northbound)/Principality (southbound) between Edinburgh/ Glasgow and Cardiff via the WCML in the mid-80s (i think it first ran in 1984). In some years it ran to Swansea.

There were also the two-hourly Dundee/Edinburgh to Cardiff via the ECML services in the short-lived Virgin CrossCountry Operation Princess timetable.

 

[Mag_seven]

BR Intercity ran a loco hauled train Glasgow/Edinburgh Cardiff splitting/joining at Carstairs.

 

[hexagon789]

BR Intercity ran a loco hauled train Glasgow/Edinburgh Cardiff splitting/joining at Carstairs

Yep, The Caledonian/The Principality

 

[Mag_seven]

Yep, The Caledonian/The Principality

You just beat me to it although I can't recall the fact that it was named

 

[hexagon789]

You just beat me to it although I can't recall the fact that it was named

By coincidence I was recently going through the 1984 GBTT, so the names came quite readily!

 

[stevetay3]

Lot of use that will be with five or less coaches

 

[och aye]

Thanks all. While I thought this was CrossCountry's first Scotland-Wales service, I did think there must have been services in the past. So as I suspected, this is just lazy "journalism" regurgitating a press release that also happened to be historically incorrect.

 

[thenorthern]

As others have pointed out the headline is not correct there used to be Virgin Cross Country services from Edinburgh to Cardiff, I think as one point as well there may have been a Dundee to Cardiff train.

 

[leightonbd]

Personally I can’t help thinking that I will stick with my existing ways of doing this*, rather than sitting on a Voyager all day. Also because XC fares seem to tower above tickets involving other operators.

*: for those interested, starting from Edinburgh and going to Swansea
- Avanti to Crewe then TfW
- LNER to London, do something in London, GWR from Paddington
- Sleeper to London then GWR (More often done in reverse)

(Sometimes I start from Aviemore and route across town in Glasgow on the way to Crewe.)

This feels like one for the headline writers and politicians rather than a meaningful improvement in travel opportunities, though I do appreciate that some people will value not having to change.

Will the timings be notably faster? I’d be quite surprised.

 

[Tetchytyke]

While I thought this was CrossCountry's first Scotland-Wales service, I did think there must have been services in the past.

It's not even XC's first Scotland-Wales train, one of the evening Edinburgh-Bristol TM trains used to extend to Cardiff Central.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Thanks all. While I thought this was CrossCountry's first Scotland-Wales service, I did think there must have been services in the past. So as I suspected, this is just lazy "journalism" regurgitating a press release that also happened to be historically incorrect.

If you go back far enough, BR operated Glasgow-Bristol-Plymouth services via the North & West line (ie Shrewsbury-Hereford-Severn Tunnel) before they were all diverted via Birmingham in, I think 1970.
Those services go right back to GWR/LNWR operation.
So they certainly ran through Wales, but probably avoided Newport on the Maindee curve.
I think direct services to South Wales were limited to trains starting at Manchester or Liverpool.
There were also at one time in early BR days through trains York-Swansea Victoria via Crewe and the Central Wales line.

I can also remember a time in the early 80s when the Plymouth-Birmingham-Glasgow/Edinburgh sleeper was diverted because of engineering work on the usual Cheltenham route via the Severn Tunnel, Hereford, Great Malvern and Worcester, but again missing out Newport.

 

[swt_passenger]

We’ve had a good few previous discussions about this service, going back to early this year. Trouble is they’re also spread over quite a few different threads and forums. But it’s definitely not “new news” in the way it’s being reported.

I attached the January 2024 track access application in a post back in April, as the links often go stale:

Ideas for improving the CrossCountry timetable

I couldn't find any open threads about this topic, but if I'm wrong, please tell me as well as send me one that's open. With CrossCountry getting 7 (i think?) new Voyagers from Avanti I was thinking how we could improve XC's timetable with them. What I would do first is increase the frequency...

www.railforums.co.uk

Lot of use that will be with five or less coaches

It’s two services northbound joining at New St, and southbound it’s a pair of units until they split at Gloucester. So much of the route will have to be more than 5 cars, ie at least 8...

 

[30907]

If you go back far enough, BR operated Glasgow-Bristol-Plymouth services via the North & West line (ie Shrewsbury-Hereford-Severn Tunnel) before they were all diverted via Birmingham in, I think 1970.
Those services go right back to GWR/LNWR operation.

Think that was a through coach?

So they certainly ran through Wales, but probably avoided Newport on the Maindee curve.

They did, but they called at Pontypool Rd, as did most N&W expresses.

 

[hexagon789]

Think that was a through coach?

I forget the exact arrangement, but one way it was two coaches on the daily Glasgow & Edinburgh-Birmingham and the other in the northbound Mid-Day Scot IIRC.

 

[A S Leib]

Have there ever been direct north Wales – Scotland services, for Holyhead ferries or otherwise?

 

[Whistler40145]

Presumably this service will operate via Chepstow?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Think that was a through coach?
They did, but they called at Pontypool Rd, as did most N&W expresses.

In my 1958 LMR timetable the 0800 from Plymouth had through coaches for Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow (also portion from Torbay, RC to Liverpool).
Called at Pontypool Road 1237.
The reverse train had a Manchester-Cardiff portion so you could do Glasgow-Cardiff on the same train if you moved after Crewe.
But they didn't serve Edinburgh.

 

[A S Leib]

Northbound it's the 09:45 calling at Chepstow, Gloucester, Cheltenham, Worcestershire Parkway (no Ashchurch), Tamworth, Burton-on-Trent, Chesterfield, Alnmouth and Berwick as well as the normal Cheltenham – Leeds – Edinburgh stops. Southbound it's the 13:07 from Edinburgh calling at Berwick, Alnmouth and Burton-on-Trent and only calling at Cheltenham and Gloucester between Birmingham and Newport.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Have there ever been direct north Wales – Scotland services, for Holyhead ferries or otherwise?

I don't think so. Holyhead-Manchester-Leeds was the main route ferrywise other than London/Birmingham.
There were also never any Cardiff-North Wales services, until Wales & West started up a single service in later BR days (via Crewe).

 

[hexagon789]

I don't think so. Holyhead-Manchester-Leeds was the main route ferrywise other than London/Birmingham.
There were also never any Cardiff-North Wales services, until Wales & West started up a single service in later BR days (via Crewe).

The Welshman/Y Cymro presumably?

Introduced about 1985, 47/4 + Mk2s, went to 158 in 1990 and was renamed The Provincial Express.

 

[APT618S]

I don't think so. Holyhead-Manchester-Leeds was the main route ferrywise other than London/Birmingham.

In the mid 1980s I remember a Holyhead - Newcastle service by the above route but no further north. Invariably a 45/1. IIRC.

 

[hexagon789]

In the mid 1980s I remember a Holyhead - Newcastle service by the above route but no further north. Invariably a 45/1. IIRC.

There was a Holyhead (sometimes Bangor)/Scarborough at one point in the 80s as part of the TransPennine services.

 

[Merseysider]

For anybody wanting to do this end to end, use a ticket splitting website such as trainsplit.com - even a simple split at BHM saves £100 (the through fare on most days is £219.80 Standard / £359.60 in 1st )

 

[Thechopperguy]

Personally I can’t help thinking that I will stick with my existing ways of doing this*, rather than sitting on a Voyager all day. Also because XC fares seem to tower above tickets involving other operators.

*: for those interested, starting from Edinburgh and going to Swansea
- Avanti to Crewe then TfW
- LNER to London, do something in London, GWR from Paddington
- Sleeper to London then GWR (More often done in reverse)

(Sometimes I start from Aviemore and route across town in Glasgow on the way to Crewe.)

This feels like one for the headline writers and politicians rather than a meaningful improvement in travel opportunities, though I do appreciate that some people will value not having to change.

Will the timings be notably faster? I’d be quite surprised.

7 hours -ish according to Wales online

 

[hexagon789]

7 hours -ish according to Wales online

7 hours one way, 7 hrs 15 the other.

 

[xotGD]

Yep, The Caledonian/The Principality

The Principality was booked a pair of Class 50s to New St on Saturdays.

 

[syorksdeano]

Sounds good until one of them is delayed