New interoperability Ticketing agreement for Cornwall

[richw]

Mod note:
As this announcement affects more than one operator, I've moved it into a separate thread in order to keep it in one place and to reduce the likelihood of duplicate discussions taking place. General discussion concerning individual operators should continue in the respective threads as usual.

Huge news this morning

Any Ticket Any Bus

From 2nd January, you'll be able to use your bus ticket on any* Cornwall by Kernow or Go Cornwall Bus! Click here for more info.

www.gocornwallbus.co.uk

We’ve got some great news for customers within Cornwall.

From 2 January you’ll be able to use your bus ticket on any* Cornwall by Kernow or Go Cornwall bus.
Including services operated by Stagecoach, Hopleys, OTS and Travel Cornwall.

That means that whether you’ve got a return, day, weekly or monthly ticket you’ll be able to hop on any bus, whoever operates it, and you won’t have to pay another penny.

It doesn’t matter what colour the bus is, or who’s driving it, it’ll still get you where you need to be.

There’s other exciting changes too, everyone 18 and under can now purchase a child ticket, offering great value travel to young people across the county.

And there are new day tickets available for the existing town zones, with a full fare ticket at just £3.00 and under 19s can travel for just £1.50.

There are even plans for more town zones, and further reductions to fares coming from the Spring.

This really is the beginning of our journey to better fares for Cornwall!

Here’s a quick overview of what’s new, and what’s different:



• Return tickets can be used on any bus on your return journey to the same point.

• 50% off adult fares for all those 18 and under on day, week and month tickets

• Cornwall wide or town zone tickets can be purchased on the Go Cornwall Bus or First Bus App, or from the driver using contactless or cash.

• Day tickets purchased from Cornwall by Kernow, Go Cornwall bus, Hopleys, OTS and Travel Cornwall are now £9 for unlimited travel across the county. Young person’s day ticket has been reduced to just £4.50. Family tickets allowing up to 2 adults and unlimited children are now available on all these operators too.



*excludes Truro, Penwith and Callywith College passes, Falmouth & Exeter University passes and use on Truro Park & Ride

 

[Goldfish62]

Huge news this morning

Any Ticket Any Bus

From 2nd January, you'll be able to use your bus ticket on any* Cornwall by Kernow or Go Cornwall Bus! Click here for more info.

www.gocornwallbus.co.uk

Superb! This really is such good news.

Now there needs to be a massive advertising campaign.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Superb! This really is such good news.

Now there needs to be a massive advertising campaign.

My sentiments exactly.

It is great news and it needs to be communicated properly - on buses themselves, at bus stations and stops, but also to the wider, not yet travelling public.

I hope that this is the first of the many initiatives to improve connectivity and reduce car dependence in the county,

 

[On the Buses]

My sentiments exactly.

It is great news and it needs to be communicated properly - on buses themselves, at bus stations and stops, but also to the wider, not yet travelling public.

I hope that this is the first of the many initiatives to improve connectivity and reduce car dependence in the county,

This has been a significant piece of work - far more complicated that many suggest. A lot of things have had to align - child age range now aligned at 5-18, family now aligned at 2+unlimited children, products across the board aligned. Then a whole project to get ticketer to identify tickets, and a further piece of work to then allow it to calculate the reimbursement between all operators.
This piece of work sets the system up ready for Low Fares Pilot and Capping.
Of course there will be promotion, but this is a three part five year programme of multiple incremental actions.

 

[Goldfish62]

My sentiments exactly.

It is great news and it needs to be communicated properly - on buses themselves, at bus stations and stops, but also to the wider, not yet travelling public.

I hope that this is the first of the many initiatives to improve connectivity and reduce car dependence in the county,

"... the wider, not yet travelling public...", being the most important group, plus of course those gave up using buses during the pandemic and need to be re-engaged.

This has been a significant piece of work - far more complicated that many suggest. A lot of things have had to align - child age range now aligned at 5-18, family now aligned at 2+unlimited children, products across the board aligned. Then a whole project to get ticketer to identify tickets, and a further piece of work to then allow it to calculate the reimbursement between all operators.
This piece of work sets the system up ready for Low Fares Pilot and Capping.
Of course there will be promotion, but this is a three part five year programme of multiple incremental actions.

I certainly have no doubts about what a complex piece of work this has been and undoubtedly will continue to be. Full credit to all those involved for making it happen.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

This has been a significant piece of work - far more complicated that many suggest. A lot of things have had to align - child age range now aligned at 5-18, family now aligned at 2+unlimited children, products across the board aligned. Then a whole project to get ticketer to identify tickets, and a further piece of work to then allow it to calculate the reimbursement between all operators.
This piece of work sets the system up ready for Low Fares Pilot and Capping.
Of course there will be promotion, but this is a three part five year programme of multiple incremental actions.

I don't doubt that for a second - all parties to be congratulated for showing what can be done.

And my hope for many future initiatives.... well, I'm sure that you'll share when/if you can but I think that may well be what I was alluding to in the "programme of multiple incremental actions"

 

[On the Buses]

I don't doubt that for a second - all parties to be congratulated for showing what can be done.

And my hope for many future initiatives.... well, I'm sure that you'll share when/if you can but I think that may well be what I was alluding to in the "programme of multiple incremental actions"

Yes. More exciting things to follow but not appropriate for a single partner to share

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes. More exciting things to follow but not appropriate for a single partner to share

Indeed - we look forward to seeing what's planned/coming.

Also, think it should be said, thanks to you personally for all the information on FSW (and wider) that you have been able to share during 2021; a time when the mere day job would be challenging enough and not forgetting the considerable number of initiatives that you and the FSW team have been working on.

Hope you have a relaxing Christmas period with the people closest to you.

 

[On the Buses]

Indeed - we look forward to seeing what's planned/coming.

Also, think it should be said, thanks to you personally for all the information on FSW (and wider) that you have been able to share during 2021; a time when the mere day job would be challenging enough and not forgetting the considerable number of initiatives that you and the FSW team have been working on.

Hope you have a relaxing Christmas period with the people closest to you.

Thank you. With the odd exception this is a forum where contributors make it possible to share info. Lots happening but uncertainties around recovery mean I’ve had to keep some things under wraps pending greater certainty but let’s hope 2022 is the start of something better! Merry Christmas all

 

[Bletchleyite]

Excellent news. Adding the railway branches, then all of it, would be a great next step to proper integration.

 

[RELL6L]

Excellent, well done to all the parties. It will make bus travel in the county much more accessible to visitors. Looking forward to seeing what 2022 brings.

 

[Goldfish62]

Excellent news. Adding the railway branches, then all of it, would be a great next step to proper integration.

What's needed is a reasonably priced Ride Cornwall ticket, also in weekly, monthly and annual form, and properly marketed. But given the complete turmoil the railways are in I'm not particularly hopeful.

 

[83G/84D]

Thanks for your contributions to this forum @On the Buses . We all appreciate your postings.
Thanks very much.

 

[Busaholic]

A nice Christmas present for all users and followers of bus services in Cornwall, but the timing of the announcement could not have been worse from a news management point of view. It's usually bad news that gets buried on Christmas Eve, or the age old tradition of the dodgy company holding its AGM in London on Christmas or New Year's Eve in the afternoon. I see no mention on BBC Cornwall website, for instance. I don't read Western Morning News so it's only this forum that's alerted me to it. Hope the successors to the jaded hacks of yore find this in their emails and publicise it before too long.

 

[On the Buses]

A nice Christmas present for all users and followers of bus services in Cornwall, but the timing of the announcement could not have been worse from a news management point of view. It's usually bad news that gets buried on Christmas Eve, or the age old tradition of the dodgy company holding its AGM in London on Christmas or New Year's Eve in the afternoon. I see no mention on BBC Cornwall website, for instance. I don't read Western Morning News so it's only this forum that's alerted me to it. Hope the successors to the jaded hacks of yore find this in their emails and publicise it before too long.

It’s not a one off announcement. It’s a five year programme of numerous actions. The best are yet to come and there’s a five year marketing campaign to go with it.

 

[Busaholic]

It’s not a one off announcement. It’s a five year programme of numerous actions. The best are yet to come and there’s a five year marketing campaign to go with it.

I realise that, and it really does sound marvellous, even if not absolutely everything gets accomplished, that being the way of the world. I imagine the Press Office (or whatever) of Cornwall Council would have been responsible for the timing, but I don't regard it as any more than a tiny blemish. May I add my congratulations and thanks to you for your hard work and dedication.

 

[On the Buses]

I realise that, and it really does sound marvellous, even if not absolutely everything gets accomplished, that being the way of the world. I imagine the Press Office (or whatever) of Cornwall Council would have been responsible for the timing, but I don't regard it as any more than a tiny blemish. May I add my congratulations and thanks to you for your hard work and dedication.

Your completely missing the point. It’s not a one off announcement. There’s no criticism due to anyone. This announcement needs to be made now because some products disappear from 2 Jan so there is a need for customer information.
The promotion of inter operability sms subsequent significant changes will be a well funded campaign lasting for years.

 

[farwest]

I think that is brilliant news as it has been awful to see folks not allowed on bus as they have the wrong company ticket. Should be a big improvement once the information gets around.

 

[johncrossley]

So why is this good news when people on this thread

Oxford rationalisation - but keeping single company tickets!

Routes in Oxford are going to be rationalised. Roughly speaking, Oxford Bus or Stagecoach will withdraw from certain corridors so that only one operator runs all services on that corridor instead of both companies running alternate buses. https://www.oxfordbus.co.uk/network-review...

www.railforums.co.uk

seem to think that it is better to keep single company tickets?

 

[goldisgood]

So why is this good news when people on this thread

Oxford rationalisation - but keeping single company tickets!

Routes in Oxford are going to be rationalised. Roughly speaking, Oxford Bus or Stagecoach will withdraw from certain corridors so that only one operator runs all services on that corridor instead of both companies running alternate buses. https://www.oxfordbus.co.uk/network-review...

www.railforums.co.uk

seem to think that it is better to keep single company tickets?

From what I make of the situation, it appears that the multi-operator tickets for Cornwall are simply extending the usability of the existing tickets onto all companies with no change to the price, whilst in Oxford the multi-operator Smartzone ticket cost more than the single-operator tickets, and was necessary on most corridors to make use of the main bus routes which had services alternating between the two operators. The rationalisation in Oxford means that for a couple of these corridors, passengers can now buy the cheaper single-operator tickets if they only require travel on these corridors, or stick with Smartzone for the flexibility on the remaining joint services and for easier cross-city travel.

 

[Goldfish62]

From what I make of the situation, it appears that the multi-operator tickets for Cornwall are simply extending the usability of the existing tickets onto all companies with no change to the price, whilst in Oxford the multi-operator Smartzone ticket cost more than the single-operator tickets, and was necessary on most corridors to make use of the main bus routes which had services alternating between the two operators. The rationalisation in Oxford means that for a couple of these corridors, passengers can now buy the cheaper single-operator tickets if they only require travel on these corridors, or stick with Smartzone for the flexibility on the remaining joint services and for easier cross-city travel.

That's not quite correct. The current Kernow day ticket is £15 (£13 on app). The new multi operator day ticket replacing it will be £9.

There are other examples of reductions.

 

[johncrossley]

Many people on the Oxford thread agreed that there is no problem with single company tickets undercutting the all company ticket. For example @RT4038 even believes having such tickets is advantageous

Do single company tickets improve overall public transport patronage?

Yes, because they offer some people cheaper fares and encourage operators to up their game to retain their 'own' passengers as much as possible.

Yet there seems to be unanimous approval of what is happening in Cornwall.

 

[Goldfish62]

Many people on the Oxford thread agreed that there is no problem with single company tickets undercutting the all company ticket. For example @RT4038 even believes having such tickets is advantageous





Yet there seems to be unanimous approval of what is happening in Cornwall.

Quite why anyone, anyone at all, would think it's a bad idea is beyond but the world's a strange place! There will be someone somewhere who thinks it's a bad idea.

 

[jammy36]

Many people on the Oxford thread agreed that there is no problem with single company tickets undercutting the all company ticket. For example @RT4038 even believes having such tickets is advantageous

Yet there seems to be unanimous approval of what is happening in Cornwall.

That's a bit of an Aunt Sally - there is unanimous approval because there was previously no reasonable multi-operator ticket in Cornwall. That is patently not the case in Oxford where there is the SmartZone offering. There is no necessary contradiction between supporting a multi-operator ticket in Cornwall and the views expressed in the Oxford thread. That is before you take account of the very different character of the the two places

 

[Busaholic]

Your completely missing the point. It’s not a one off announcement. There’s no criticism due to anyone. This announcement needs to be made now because some products disappear from 2 Jan so there is a need for customer information.
The promotion of inter operability sms subsequent significant changes will be a well funded campaign lasting for years.

Okay, adopting a different tack. After so long waiting for this good news, why choose the very pressing date of 2nd January? I'm sure you will say that's because of school/college reopening on or around that date, but in that case the announcement should surely have come before Christmas Eve, or the implementation put back a week or so? Far from missing the point completely, I still maintain that the series of changes and associated announcements to follow may not proceed without amendment to the original plans, as they always have in the sixty years plus I've followed the bus scene, and many times rightly so.

 

[johncrossley]

That's a bit of an Aunt Sally - there is unanimous approval because there was previously no reasonable multi-operator ticket in Cornwall. That is patently not the case in Oxford where there is the SmartZone offering. There is no necessary contradiction between supporting a multi-operator ticket in Cornwall and the views expressed in the Oxford thread. That is before you take account of the very different character of the the two places

Lots of multi-operator tickets have been introduced over the years across the country, but usually (always?) at a premium to existing single company tickets. So the new Cornwall ticket is a departure from the usual situation.

Why does 'character' have anything to do with it? Taking the arguments from the Oxford thread, people in Cornwall using a single company are being ripped off by having to pay £9 for a day ticket for the whole network, when they only need one company. If you want to take local conditions into account, Cornwall is a more impoverished area, so supporters of single company tickets could argue there is a greater need for a discounted ticket for the people who don't need all companies.

 

[philthetube]

That's not quite correct. The current Kernow day ticket is £15 (£13 on app). The new multi operator day ticket replacing it will be £9.

There are other examples of reductions.

this makes me wonder if the open top services will be included on these tickets.

 

[On the Buses]

Okay, adopting a different tack. After so long waiting for this good news, why choose the very pressing date of 2nd January? I'm sure you will say that's because of school/college reopening on or around that date, but in that case the announcement should surely have come before Christmas Eve, or the implementation put back a week or so? Far from missing the point completely, I still maintain that the series of changes and associated announcements to follow may not proceed without amendment to the original plans, as they always have in the sixty years plus I've followed the bus scene, and many times rightly so.

Oh I give up. It’s happening as soon as possible to give customers the benefits as soon as possible. What’s more the sooner inter operability is introduced, the sooner the base is set and the back ends tested to enable reduced fares through the low fares pilot to be introduced to the significant further benefit of customers. There’s a significant budget to promote the improvements over five years, not one week through editorial column inches.

Lots of multi-operator tickets have been introduced over the years across the country, but usually (always?) at a premium to existing single company tickets. So the new Cornwall ticket is a departure from the usual situation.

Why does 'character' have anything to do with it? Taking the arguments from the Oxford thread, people in Cornwall using a single company are being ripped off by having to pay £9 for a day ticket for the whole network, when they only need one company. If you want to take local conditions into account, Cornwall is a more impoverished area, so supporters of single company tickets could argue there is a greater need for a discounted ticket for the people who don't need all companies.

You’ve got the wrong end of the stick. This isn’t a multi operator ticket. All operators’ tickets are accepted on each other’s. There is no premium. No one is getting ‘ripped off’. 17/18 year olds on CbKs network now get half price. 5-18s on GCB now get 50% instead of 66%. Day prices and on bus period tickets have gone down on CbK. Amd that’s before the Low Fares Pilot fares reductions commence.

this makes me wonder if the open top services will be included on these tickets.

They will.

 

[RT4038]

Lots of multi-operator tickets have been introduced over the years across the country, but usually (always?) at a premium to existing single company tickets. So the new Cornwall ticket is a departure from the usual situation.

Why does 'character' have anything to do with it? Taking the arguments from the Oxford thread, people in Cornwall using a single company are being ripped off by having to pay £9 for a day ticket for the whole network, when they only need one company. If you want to take local conditions into account, Cornwall is a more impoverished area, so supporters of single company tickets could argue there is a greater need for a discounted ticket for the people who don't need all companies.

I do not see how operators issuing an 'own company' ticket, as well as a multi-operator ticket, is a problem. Whether it is desirable in the grand scheme of things can be debated, but it is certainly not a priority for action against existing tickets at this stage. Presumably in Cornwall the operator whose day ticket is reducing from £15 is being funded to do that, so it is fairly unlikely. With such a price reduction, no wonder there is unanimous approval.
Conditions are different between Oxford and Cornwall - in Cornwall one operator does most/all of the tendered routes and another the commercial services, whereas on Oxford the two companies are in 'moderated' competition on the same routes, so on a revenue risk basis the local conditions are different.

Because Cornwall is a more impoverished area it has had a lot of money thrown at it for bus services (see post #28) Sooner or later that money is going to run out. See what happens to the day ticket price, and single operator tickets, then.

 

[johncrossley]

You’ve got the wrong end of the stick. This isn’t a multi operator ticket. All operators’ tickets are accepted on each other’s. There is no premium. No one is getting ‘ripped off’. 17/18 year olds on CbKs network now get half price. 5-18s on GCB now get 50% instead of 66%. Day prices and on bus period tickets have gone down on CbK. Amd that’s before the Low Fares Pilot fares reductions commence.

Obviously I welcome the initiative, but I'm pointing out that it runs contrary to what supporters of deregulation have argued for decades. I don't see why Oxford (and everywhere else for that matter) can't benefit in the same way.