New National Rail website

[CaptainHaddock]

I've found another bug in the new NR website. If you use the journey planner to travel now on a multi leg journey and one leg is cancelled, there's no way to find out which leg it is!

You just get the text "unable to purchase this journey" and a link to "service changes" which just offers vague information about disruption. The "journey details" link is missing altogether.

Do the NR website admins not realise that people use their website to check train times, not to book tickets?

 

[sheff1]

I've found another bug in the new NR website. If you use the journey planner to travel now on a multi leg journey and one leg is cancelled, there's no way to find out which leg it is!

You just get the text "unable to purchase this journey" and a link to "service changes" which just offers vague information about disruption. The "journey details" link is missing altogether.

Do the NR website admins not realise that people use their website to check train times, not to book tickets?

It would appear not. Previously if one or more legs were cancelled one click would bring up alternative options. That frequently needed faciliity has vanished (or is very well hidden).

 

[py_megapixel]

The following link is provided in some documentation about Darwin APIs:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/48541.aspx

On the old site, this was a list of all stations with their CRS codes. The designers of the new site have set up a redirect. But for some reason, it doesn't redirect to a comparable list on the new page, it just redirects to the new homepage.

What on earth is the point of that? It's utterly incompetent.

 

[OscarH]

The following link is provided in some documentation about Darwin APIs:

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/48541.aspx

On the old site, this was a list of all stations with their CRS codes. The designers of the new site have set up a redirect. But for some reason, it doesn't redirect to a comparable list on the new page, it just redirects to the new homepage.

What on earth is the point of that? It's utterly incompetent.

I do wonder if that's still there, but with a different URL, because they didn't bother to provide any redirects from old style paths to new ones

 

[py_megapixel]

I do wonder if that's still there, but with a different URL, because they didn't bother to provide any redirects from old style paths to new ones

There are two possibilities:

1) The page still exists, but at a different URL - in which case the server should redirect to the new URL using the code "301" (Moved Permanently). This would be ideal.
2) The page has been removed - in which case the server should provide the code "404" (Not Found)* and an error message. This would be annoying but at least make it clear what had happened.

What is actually happening is the server is giving a "301" redirection response, but the URL it is providing is for the homepage, not the page I want. In other words, it's saying that the page I want for has been moved to the homepage. This is obviously wrong, and has the result that I'm spuriously shown the homepage - which is not what I asked for - and have no way of telling whether the page I want exists at a different URL or whether it has been removed altogether.

It's the sort of misconfiguration I'd expect from one of those conglomerated tinpot local news websites, not the official site representing the railway network of a whole country.

*or possibly "410" (Gone), but this rarely seems to be used.

 

[OscarH]

There are two possibilities:

1) The page still exists, but at a different URL - in which case the server should redirect to the new URL using the code "301" (Moved Permanently). This would be ideal.
2) The page has been removed - in which case the server should provide the code "404" (Not Found)* and an error message. This would be annoying but at least make it clear what had happened.

What is actually happening is the server is giving a "301" redirection response, but the URL it is providing is for the homepage, not the page I want. In other words, it's saying that the page I want for has been moved to the homepage. This is obviously wrong, and has the result that I'm spuriously shown the homepage - which is not what I asked for - and have no way of telling whether the page I want exists at a different URL or whether it has been removed altogether.

It's the sort of misconfiguration I'd expect from one of those conglomerated tinpot local news websites, not the official site representing the railway network of a whole country.

*or possibly "410" (Gone), but this rarely seems to be used.

Yeah, I agree it's completely insane behaviour

 

[yorksrob]

They need to bring back the old website for the timebeing then start again.

 

[embers25]

For some journeys it now sends you to the operator of the first bit to buy tickets even if you want to choose a different one. This is a pain when the first operator doesn't actually sell the ticket. I know you could buy anywhere but there is a reason for using the nat rail site and surely that is not impartial retailing?

 

[Bletchleyite]

They need to bring back the old website for the timebeing then start again.

It's so awful I've started using Trainline for basic times etc.

 

[trainJam]

I have never been able to find the via High Wycombe Super Off-Peak Travelcard from Birmingham to London. NRE has always only offered the more expensive Off-Peak Travelcard (unless anyone has any ideas or has seen it, but if so then it isn't obvious at all). Interestingly it will offer the Super Off-Peak Return (no travelcard).

Hasn't been fixed in the new version. At least it is still possible to put a via point in.

 

[brad465]

My main issue with the site is that on journey planner it appears you have to select an outward journey and then click a button after to see the return journey options, you can't see them both on the same page. Unless there's a way round this I'm not aware of, NRE don't realise that, especially when planning day trips, seeing the return journey options can help influence which outbound journey times are best.

 

[MrJeeves]

Well, if anyone wants to use the old journey planner, Thameslink accidentally posted a link for internal use which still takes you to it.

https://twitter.com/TLRailUK/status/1740730630634119236

Visit the below link to plan your journey: https://tocojp.test.nationalrail.co.uk/service/planjourney/search

 

[arb]

I've always used https://traintimes.org.uk for journey planning, which screenscrapes from the NRE site. I've been amazed that it has continued to work, but using it today I've realised that its ability to do via/avoid points now seems to be broken, so I guess it doesn't have long left until it completely falls apart.

Does anybody know of an alternative journey planner (planner only, not for buying tickets) that lets you bypass the user interface and just type your journey information into the URL, e.g. https://traintimes.org.uk/cbg/kgx/1000/tue/1900/tue?via=hfn

 

[dracos]

I've always used https://traintimes.org.uk for journey planning, which screenscrapes from the NRE site. I've been amazed that it has continued to work, but using it today I've realised that its ability to do via/avoid points now seems to be broken, so I guess it doesn't have long left until it completely falls apart.

Does anybody know of an alternative journey planner (planner only, not for buying tickets) that lets you bypass the user interface and just type your journey information into the URL, e.g. https://traintimes.org.uk/cbg/kgx/1000/tue/1900/tue?via=hfn

Thanks for your amazement; I'm not a mind-reader, so I don't know something is broken if no-one lets me know Have indeed had to make some changes recently, but hopefully via/avoid should work again now
While I'm here, compared to the official site, you should still be able to view the journey legs if they've marked it as cancelled ( @CaptainHaddock / @AdamWW ), and view the return journeys without having to pick an outward ( @brad465 ). Hope that's helpful, everyone

 

[modernrail]

I hadn’t realised this thread was up and so accidentally started a new one but whoever has designed this new site needs to receive a massive talking to.

I can not believe anybody who uses the railway actually tested it. It is absolutely not fit for purpose. All they had to do was copy Trainline!!! How is the public sector doing to awfully on this one - it should be the superior product. Looking out info on journeys because all reserved tickets have been sold is obviously a really stupid idea. It is meant to be a real time info app not a ticket buying app. It isn’t a ticket buying app - you can’t buy tickets on it. That is how you know it is meant to be something other than a ticket buying app. Who was in the meeting where they got that one completely confused???

I am absolutely in the camp of thinking this cannot be an accident and is a conspiracy to push people towards Trainline for info and therefore tickets.

I 100% expect to find out yet another corrupt Tory is feathering their nest as a result. Either that or it a dogmatic attempt to blow up the public sector option.

There is no way this can actually be a real attempt at getting it right. If it is - it is really very, very embarrassing.

 

[jon0844]

It looks like a site that has a new front end but the same ancient core, a bit like a lot of airline booking systems that used to, and maybe still do, interact with ancient systems developed in the 70s.

The 'new EE' site seems similar in that it has a unique typeface and layout but despite having a 1Gbps fibre connection, the pages load slowly and the footer seems to appear first with other elements that makes things jump around as the page renders.

It lot only looks bad but from an accessibility POV it's terrible as you can easily press the wrong thing as the page layout changes.

 

[arb]

Thanks for your amazement; I'm not a mind-reader, so I don't know something is broken if no-one lets me know Have indeed had to make some changes recently, but hopefully via/avoid should work again now

Thanks for the fix. I didn't realise how much I make use of the ability to just type my journey into a URL until it stopped working fully and I had to use a "real" journey planner!

 

[benbristow]

a bit like a lot of airline booking systems that used to, and maybe still do, interact with ancient systems developed in the 70s

cough British Airways cough

But it does interact with an ancient core, Darwin. Built in the early to mid 2000's which itself consumes data from British Rail built systems. https://wiki.openraildata.com/index.php/TRUST_vs_Darwin

 

[py_megapixel]

But it does interact with an ancient core, Darwin. Built in the early to mid 2000's which itself consumes data from British Rail built systems. https://wiki.openraildata.com/index.php/TRUST_vs_Darwin

Darwin is responsible for live running information, but a lot of the site is just static pages that never touch that. Darwin has absolutely nothing to do with the basic errors that the site is littered with (e.g. incorrectly configured redirects; UI elements whose behaviour contradicts their appearance; broken links; poor use of semantic HTML; use of JavaScript event handlers for things that could just be links) nor for the complete failure to use the space on the screen efficiently.

 

[OscarH]

Darwin is responsible for live running information, but a lot of the site is just static pages that never touch that. Darwin has absolutely nothing to do with the basic errors that the site is littered with (e.g. incorrectly configured redirects; UI elements whose behaviour contradicts their appearance; broken links; poor use of semantic HTML; use of JavaScript event handlers for things that could just be links) nor for the complete failure to use the space on the screen efficiently.

Yeah, Darwin certainly has its problems (though to be honest it's young compared to most banks, and has been kept reasonably well maintained), but I don't think I've seen any complaints about the new site that would relate to Darwin at all

 

[brad465]

One problem I've discovered with NRE, thanks to strike action alterations, is that if a particular journey combination cannot be done on 1 ticket, the site will show the itinerary options, but not allow you to select them to see what each leg is and what changes are required, forgetting that some passengers might be prepared to buy the multiple tickets necessary and still make the journey.

 

[duffield]

One problem I've discovered with NRE, thanks to strike action alterations, is that if a particular journey combination cannot be done on 1 ticket, the site will show the itinerary options, but not allow you to select them to see what each leg is and what changes are required, forgetting that some passengers might be prepared to buy the multiple tickets necessary and still make the journey.

It's even worse than that. I just tried Leeds to Manchester Piccadilly out of interest, and it gives you *no* results at all for today (and none for Manchester Victoria of course), not even ones you can't select; but it you ask for Leeds to Sheffield and Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly separately, it gives you the expected Cross-Country/EMR option. I'm sure there must be at least a few people who wanted to travel urgently between Leeds and Manchester today who will have thought that there is no possible option.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's so utterly dire that I have switched to using Trainline for looking up connections (via permitted routes). No, they don't charge you a fee for that either

Quite embarrassing really. The old version looked dated but at least it worked.

I can not believe anybody who uses the railway actually tested it. It is absolutely not fit for purpose. All they had to do was copy Trainline!!!

Interestingly it was originally I believe a fork of the Trainline code (the first version I seem to recall even used the Trainline style grid to display fares), but has gone a long way from there now!

 

[AdamWW]

One problem I've discovered with NRE, thanks to strike action alterations, is that if a particular journey combination cannot be done on 1 ticket, the site will show the itinerary options, but not allow you to select them to see what each leg is and what changes are required, forgetting that some passengers might be prepared to buy the multiple tickets necessary and still make the journey.

Which of course it used to do, just flagging that more than one ticket might be necessary.

I wonder if someone made a deliberate decision to remove much of the functionality of the site, or if these things were overlooked.

I certainly can't see much point in using it any more, other than by other web sites that can then provide a useful interface, as traintimes.co.uk does.

I suspect the fact that it's very hard to see flexible fares now if an advance fare is available is just more poor design, not part of an agenda to push people away from flexible tickets so it can be argued that they don't actually want them any more.

 

[infobleep]

I've been using the "official" outdated app for years and I will continue to do so. I even once paid not to get adverts on it.

I also use Real Time Trains.

 

[yorksrob]

Another irritation with the new website is that instead of giving updated details on the website it tells you to follow the incident on twitter.

I refuse to give any money to that overpaid half-wit.

 

[RGM654]

i have just tried looking at options for a journey. It offers me an advance fare but no apparent way to select any other kind.

 

[MikeWM]

Does it offer day Travelcards anymore when specifying a return to London, and if so, how do you get them to show? Was just trying to see what the price increase was on local Travelcards after yesterday's fare rise, and I failed.

Conversely, went onto GA's website and found out in seconds.

Is there anything whatever good about this website post-redesign? As far as I'm concerned, it may as well not exist.

 

[Benjwri]

Does it offer day Travelcards anymore when specifying a return to London

You have to go all the way through the process. Before being redirected to a TOC website, it will show you an Off Peak (If applicable) and Peak option. Between the options there is a drop down saying 'View more Off-Peak tickets'. It's by selecting that ravelcards are offered. I agree it's a poor design.

 

[MikeWM]

You have to go all the way through the process. Before being redirected to a TOC website, it will show you an Off Peak (If applicable) and Peak option. Between the options there is a drop down saying 'View more Off-Peak tickets'. It's by selecting that ravelcards are offered. I agree it's a poor design.

Ah, I see, thanks. What a rubbish UI compared to the previous one, which made the Travelcard option obvious.

I'll stick to BRFares, which to be fair I pretty much do anyway, I just wanted to double-check they were being accurate in one case.