New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[Domh245]

It does. I knew it had been bad, but I didn't realise it had been that bad. Why has 16/17 been so bad - any particular reason or just blind chance?

Would the Southern debacle be the cause, or does the national PPM measure take account of that?

 

[southern442]

What class of stock (presumably either 444s or 450s) get used on the current Southampton Central-Portsmouth Harbour route?

The 458s have the disadvantage of not all of them being convertible in the future to AC which makes the 458 fleet in effect a pure DC only fleet.

Surely just separate the ex-460s from the rest and go from there?

 

[bb21]

It does. I knew it had been bad, but I didn't realise it had been that bad. Why has 16/17 been so bad - any particular reason or just blind chance?

AIUI there was an increase in the number of incidents in all categories so a bit of a mishmash, and DPI remained fairly stable. With P9, it didn't help that leaffall was delayed this year and the sudden temperature drop only made everything worse. We were seeing a lot of the weather effects which normally start in P8 in P9 this year.

I can't speak for others but on Wessex infrastructure causes (non-leaffall) were through the roof in P9. Very much a sticky plaster situation with maintenance atm and it seems worse were still to come.

Pretty decent P13 though, must be said.

Stagecoach really could have done with this year's performance being better than what they had been. SWT were the second worst in the country in terms of shortfall from PPM target this year.

Would the Southern debacle be the cause, or does the national PPM measure take account of that?

Most GTR cancellations would have been in the plan of the day with the revised timetable, but many of the earlier ones probably didn't help.

 

[GW43125]

Interestingly there's a comment regarding allowing child fares for 16-18 year olds towards the end of the document.

Too little, too late.

 

[wibble]

The SWT 'Advance fares' within their own network are fairly limited, origins towards London have to be from west of Brockenhurst and somewhere on the Exeter line. However the availability of Megatrain fares clouds the issue, because they are to a certain extent a special type of Advance, and you'd expect them to be immediately withdrawn.

So increasing the options for Advance might simply be a case of providing them as direct replacements for Megatrain fares, e.g. from Southampton Central to Waterloo.

They have Advance from Southampton Central and Salisbury to London, but they're a bit stingy with offering them. There are loads from the IOW and Portsmouth to London.

 

[wibble]

Too little, too late.

Or, "better late than never"?

 

[jrleighton]

So lets look at the possibilities for these trains to replace SWT's existing fleet being introduced in 2019.

Bombardier Aventra (unlikely due to Crossrail/TfL order)
CAF Civity (unlikely due to factory order full with TPE/Northern order).
Hitachi AT100 (Will any European factory have availability?)
Stadler Flirt UK (Busy delivering Greater Anglia fleet.

Think Chinese. MTR, and a post-Brexit sweetener to the PRC government...

 

[Suraggu]

Think Chinese. MTR, and a post-Brexit sweetener to the PRC government...

I think your thinking far too much into this.

 

[jrleighton]

I think your thinking far too much into this.

We shall see. Plenty of UK trade ministers passing through HK recently. And it would be great PR for both UK and PRC govs, with both looking for 'were going global' press. If an assembly plant were to be at the old Eastleigh works, even better, from Tory PoV to keep Eastleigh out of LibDems grasp come the next election.

Do politicians think like this? Trade ministers do, and if the financing is Chinese, the numbers would add up too.

But we shall see.

 

[Mollman]

We shall see. Plenty of UK trade ministers passing through HK recently. And it would be great PR for both UK and PRC govs, with both looking for 'were going global' press. If an assembly plant were to be at the old Eastleigh works, even better, from Tory PoV to keep Eastleigh out of LibDems grasp come the next election.

Do politicians think like this? Trade ministers do, and if the financing is Chinese, the numbers would add up too.

But we shall see.

And I'm sure we'll have a deal like Hitachi where the Chinese promise to open their market to UK companies in return, that's been a big success in Japan hasn't it?

 

[jrleighton]

And I'm sure we'll have a deal like Hitachi where the Chinese promise to open their market to UK companies in return, that's been a big success in Japan hasn't it?

Has it? Umm

 

[GW43125]

Or, "better late than never"?

Not really, when you're going to turn 18 just as they bring that in!

 

[Suraggu]

And I'm sure we'll have a deal like Hitachi where the Chinese promise to open their market to UK companies in return, that's been a big success in Japan hasn't it?

China have struggled to get into the European rail market due to the inferior product and lack of confedience in the product.
The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia have a Chinese EMU/DMU fleet for instance.

 

[jrleighton]

China have struggled to get into the European rail market due to the inferior product and lack of confedience in the product.
The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia have a Chinese EMU/DMU fleet for instance.

That's why they'll be looking for a breakthrough. It's a politically golden time for such a deal in the post-Brexit milieu.

Check this out: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-crrc-usa-idUSKCN0WC17I

 

[sk688]

I dont know if someone else has mentioned this , but surely it is anti competitive for First to have been awarded the South West Franchise , considering they already run gWr , as well as having plenty of buses in the area ?

Especially considering as Arriva had their franchise investigated , as they ran XC , Northern and Arriva buses in the North , so surely here First get a monopoly on rail services in the SW , due to South Western , Great Western and local buses

 

[Suraggu]

I dont know if someone else has mentioned this , but surely it is anti competitive for First to have been awarded the South West Franchise , considering they already run gWr , as well as having plenty of buses in the area ?

Especially considering as Arriva had their franchise investigated , as they ran XC , Northern and Arriva buses in the North , so surely here First get a monopoly on rail services in the SW , due to South Western , Great Western and local buses

Forgive me if I am incorrect but the Bath -Westbury - Salisbury section is one huge monopoly by First Group with Buses and now trains.

 

[swt_passenger]

I dont know if someone else has mentioned this , but surely it is anti competitive for First to have been awarded the South West Franchise , considering they already run gWr , as well as having plenty of buses in the area ?

Someone always mentions this, (and someone else had already done so within the last few days) and no, the rail competiton aspects aren't usually considered a problem.

Stagecoach seem to have had plenty of bus contracts in Hampshire for the last 20 years with no major rail/bus competition issues raised, I don't see why it will suddenly be a problem for First...

 

[northwichcat]

I dont know if someone else has mentioned this , but surely it is anti competitive for First to have been awarded the South West Franchise , considering they already run gWr , as well as having plenty of buses in the area ?

Especially considering as Arriva had their franchise investigated , as they ran XC , Northern and Arriva buses in the North , so surely here First get a monopoly on rail services in the SW , due to South Western , Great Western and local buses

The CMA investigated First TPE's planned take over of services at Marsden and Slaithwaite when First operate ALL the buses in those villages. Yet they declared it wasn't an issue.

Arriva introduced advance fares on one of the routes investigated by the CMA and the CMA seemed to think the lack of competition was a non-issue.

Of course Stagecoach are involved in VT, VTEC, EMT, Megabus and various bus operations with Stagecoach Yorkshire even operating some NX services - yet it seems that's acceptable!

 

[infobleep]

AIUI there was an increase in the number of incidents in all categories so a bit of a mishmash, and DPI remained fairly stable. With P9, it didn't help that leaffall was delayed this year and the sudden temperature drop only made everything worse. We were seeing a lot of the weather effects which normally start in P8 in P9 this year.

I can't speak for others but on Wessex infrastructure causes (non-leaffall) were through the roof in P9. Very much a sticky plaster situation with maintenance atm and it seems worse were still to come.

Pretty decent P13 though, must be said.

Stagecoach really could have done with this year's performance being better than what they had been. SWT were the second worst in the country in terms of shortfall from PPM target this year.



Most GTR cancellations would have been in the plan of the day with the revised timetable, but many of the earlier ones probably didn't help.

What is the alternative to sticky plasters and is their not enough money to do things that will remove the need for sticky pilasters?

 

[ExRes]

What is the alternative to sticky pilasters and is their not enough money to do things that will remove the need for sticky pilasters?

Can I ask if they are Grade II listed pilasters?

 

[infobleep]

Can I ask if they are Grade II listed pilasters?

Haha. Probably.

I assume the local WiFi provided at Guildford, Basingstoke, Aldershot Woking and Farnborough stations will get taken over by First / MTR as part of their roll out.

Will be interesting to see how quickly they change the TOC logos. Currently its South West Trains.

If always found it odd that places like Guildford had free WiFi but Waterloo and Clapham Junction didn't unless you were near any shops or restaurants / bars etc. that did.

What the local authorities covering both sustain should have done in the interim was apply for money from a local sustainable transport fund.

The free Wi-Fi will be provided by Sky Cloud, and rolled out at Aldershot, Basingstoke, Farnborough, Guildford, and Woking stations. The service has been funded through joint investment to promote sustainable travel in the region. Funding was provided directly by the Enterprise M3 LEP with Hampshire County Council and Surrey County Council both making further funding contributions to the project following successful bidding to the Department for Transport as part of the Local Sustainable Transport Fund.

https://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/news/freewifihantsandsurreystations/

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I

We shall see. Plenty of UK trade ministers passing through HK recently. And it would be great PR for both UK and PRC govs, with both looking for 'were going global' press. If an assembly plant were to be at the old Eastleigh works, even better, from Tory PoV to keep Eastleigh out of LibDems grasp come the next election.
Do politicians think like this? Trade ministers do, and if the financing is Chinese, the numbers would add up too.
But we shall see.

What has MTR got to do with the PRC?
It's a semi-private Hong Kong firm.
PRC is more likely to fund part of HS2, and maybe bid for the new trains there.

 

[HH]

If always found it odd that places like Guildford had free WiFi but Waterloo and Clapham Junction didn't unless you were near any shops or restaurants / bars etc. that did.

Waterloo is an NR station. Clapham Jn and Guildford are about to join it, you'll be glad to hear.

 

[HH]

That's why they'll be looking for a breakthrough. It's a politically golden time for such a deal in the post-Brexit milieu.

Check this out: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-crrc-usa-idUSKCN0WC17I

I'm pretty certain that the Chinese were not on First/MTR's shortlist. Are you a betting man?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Certain locations if you have a 4G/LTE phone contract and can tether your devices together it's better than the Wi-Fi, which I've found to be ponderously slow.

 

[HH]

Certain locations if you have a 4G/LTE phone contract and can tether your devices together it's better than the Wi-Fi, which I've found to be ponderously slow.

I do that pretty much everywhere, because I've not found a reliable connection yet on the rail network.

 

[johnw]

The CMA investigated First TPE's planned take over of services at Marsden and Slaithwaite when First operate ALL the buses in those villages. Yet they declared it wasn't an issue.

Arriva introduced advance fares on one of the routes investigated by the CMA and the CMA seemed to think the lack of competition was a non-issue.

Of course Stagecoach are involved in VT, VTEC, EMT, Megabus and various bus operations with Stagecoach Yorkshire even operating some NX services - yet it seems that's acceptable!

NX of course had issues with Megabus, but must see Stagecoach Yorkshire as a good operater of their services. I seem to recall that their operating companies, East Midland Motor Setvies and Yorkshire Traction had to either do one or the other.

 

[jrleighton]

I

What has MTR got to do with the PRC?
It's a semi-private Hong Kong firm.
PRC is more likely to fund part of HS2, and maybe bid for the new trains there.

Agreed that HS2 rolling stock will be an aim for PRC. But so much easier to win there politically if there's already a more regular order to establish them.
MTR....Yes, semi private. But MTRC is mostly UK standards, with Alstom being main supplier of hardware over recent years, apart from rolling stock. Metro Cammell stock still there and due soon to be replaced. Over the years other stock has come from CAF, Kinki Sharyo and Korea, but most recently CRRC has supplied.
UK connection is therefore that CRRC already has supplied stock to a UK like environment, which makes it easier to jump through the hoops for a new UK setup.


We shall see though.

 

[infobleep]

Waterloo is an NR station. Clapham Jn and Guildford are about to join it, you'll be glad to hear.

I was thinking Waterloo might be a national rail station but I wasn't sure. Are you saying both Clapham Junction and Guildford will revert to being run by National Rail?

I hope the WiFi agreement includes Waterloo. Be silly to try and install WiFi everywhere because the Government and TOCs think it's good idea, only for it not to be available and one of the busiest stations on the Network.

 

[infobleep]

Certain locations if you have a 4G/LTE phone contract and can tether your devices together it's better than the Wi-Fi, which I've found to be ponderously slow.

I do that pretty much everywhere, because I've not found a reliable connection yet on the rail network.

The number of locations where this is the case with O2 isn't as great as the WiFi provided by South West Trains.

Why am I still with O2, given that's the case? There are other things they do, which I like.

Besides, First / MTR say they are going to increase the WiFi speed. Hopefully they have an agreed target, otherwise any percentage increase, no matter how small, could be regarded as an increase.

I do find the WiFi to be better than the one on GWR. As for Gatwick Express, did their franchise only ever state it had to be a pilot scheme that never works? If it's no longer on pilot then it still doesn't work. Lol. Cross Country though charge and had to give me a refund it was so bad.

So out of those I've used in the last year at least South West Trains are currently top and First / MTR say they will be even better. I'll give them a chance to prove it. I have more faith in them than were it GTR.