New UK Rail Live News TV Show

[trainbeacon]

Hi, am thinking about launching a new Live TV show with the most up-to-date UK railway news and information and I'm looking for your feedback. It will feature the latest incidents and developments (or non developments) on topics like HS2 and the railway strikes. It will be likely be broadcast on live streams on the usual social media channels with rolling news. It may feature some live rail related events when there any interesting trains. It will have news on things like delays and cancellations and rail projects.
What do you think do you think you would find this interesting? Is there any content you would like to see? Does anything like this already exist?
Thanks

 

[YorkRailFan]

I think using YouTube with videos would be great, either providing daily updates or weekly. I know that there is Engineering Focus and Yawwie News doing something similar and Gareth Dennis has Rail Natter of course.

 

[trainbeacon]

I think using YouTube with videos would be great, either providing daily updates or weekly. I know that there is Engineering Focus and Yawwie News doing something similar and Gareth Dennis has Rail Natter of course.

Hi, thanks for the feedback that's good to know and very useful to hear. I was thinking of a live 24hr rolling news style format a bit like you see on TV news channels, but for rail instead of general news. It would use groundbreaking technology to broadcast the very latest stories live. If you have any ideas please let me know.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Hi, thanks for the feedback that's good to know and very useful to hear. I was thinking of a live 24hr rolling news style format a bit like you see on TV news channels, but for rail instead of general news. It would use groundbreaking technology to broadcast the very latest stories live. If you have any ideas please let me know.

Interesting, if you want it 24/7, might I recommend expanding into rail news in general, not just UK, as you will run out of content for 24/7 UK rail news.

 

[trainbeacon]

Interesting, if you want it 24/7, might I recommend expanding into rail news in general, not just UK, as you will run out of content for 24/7 UK rail news.

Yes it would probably do that, relevant coverage for each timezone. It would heavily utilise artificial intellegence. To give an idea https://studio.d-id.com/share?id=69140fb6947e60bbf75bd09606482656&utm_source=copy would be interested in any feedback on this format.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Yes it would probably do that, relevant coverage for each timezone. It would heavily utilise artificial intellegence. To give an idea https://studio.d-id.com/share?id=69140fb6947e60bbf75bd09606482656&utm_source=copy would be interested in any feedback on this format.

It's good, obviously as you said AI generated, but I do like it. I think that for some, it being AI may be off putting.

 

[trainbeacon]

It's good, obviously as you said AI generated, but I do like it. I think that for some, it being AI may be off putting.

Yes, very true a lot of people will be instantly repelled by that. Very different from something like Rail Natter which goes deeply in to HS2.

 

[manmikey]

I would find this interesting, Especially if you could publish a podcast version

 

[75A]

I'd certainly give it a look.

 

[trainbeacon]

I would find this interesting, Especially if you could publish a podcast version

Thanks for the feedback, that's a possibility. Would you mind if it used advanced text to speech synthesis artificial intelligence? Any particular topics?

 

[YorkRailFan]

Yes, very true a lot of people will be instantly repelled by that. Very different from something like Rail Natter which goes deeply in to HS2.

Yes, and Rail Natter is of course hosted by Gareth Dennis and he gives it a personal feeling.

 

[trainbeacon]

Yes, and Rail Natter is of course hosted by Gareth Dennis and he gives it a personal feeling.

Definitely, I didn't realise he had designed some of HS2

 

[trainbeacon]

I'd certainly give it a look.

Thanks for the feedback

 

[StKeverne1497]

With trigger phrases such as "groundbreaking technology", "advanced text to speech" and "[heavy use of] artificial intelligence" and the (implied) use of the singular pronoun in the first post ("I am thinking about") I'd be much more concerned about the editorial control. It sounds almost as if trainbeacon is proposing something near fully automated which is going to be scraping the web for news stories which will then be re-packaged as if actual journalism had been done. Given that Google and Facebook are currently in trouble because of their own scraping-and-repackaging antics, how would the new channel propose to avoid infringing other people's intellectual property? Does railforums have a policy on re-use of posts by members in other media?

Overview of new and proposed legislation around the globe on The Register

 

[trainbeacon]

With trigger phrases such as "groundbreaking technology", "advanced text to speech" and "[heavy use of] artificial intelligence" and the (implied) use of the singular pronoun in the first post ("I am thinking about") I'd be much more concerned about the editorial control. It sounds almost as if trainbeacon is proposing something near fully automated which is going to be scraping the web for news stories which will then be re-packaged as if actual journalism had been done. Given that Google and Facebook are currently in trouble because of their own scraping-and-repackaging antics, how would the new channel propose to avoid infringing other people's intellectual property? Does railforums have a policy on re-use of posts by members in other media?

Overview of new and proposed legislation around the globe on The Register

Hi, thanks for the feedback, you are correct these are very real issues that need to be carefully considered. You are also correct in automation being a primary objective here. I know artificial intelligence and all it's implications for humanity is definitely a triggering topic and there are very serious ethical points like you have raised. It wouldn't aim to scrape anything not meant to be scraped eg there are many sources like openly published eg RSS feeds. Most websites have a non scraping policy and rightly so. If you have more insight on the legalities of this in UK law, specifically on the RSS feeds, I would welcome it, as it requires careful consideration.

 

[dosxuk]

Who is your audience? Do you know of anyone with an appetite to sit there watching railway news 24 hours a day? How are you going to fill the time? Bulletins summarising recent stories, long gaps between stories coming out or just fill it with anything that might be relevant? You say you're concentrating on UK railway news - there really isn't going to be much to report at 2am on a Sunday - and would anyone be watching anyway?

You would be better off focusing your energy at making a 5 days a week 15 minute video with the same stories you're thinking of neatly packaged up. Do it in a way that lets you reuse much of the content in audio and video formats means you instantly get a daily podcast that can be pushed to all the usual sources too (but don't make the mistake that some do, a video can't be turned into a audio only format just by taking away the pictures).

Finally, as @StKeverne1497 noted, you need to be very careful about your sources. Stories being available on a publicly visible RSS feed does not imply you can use that as a source. You need to be extremely careful too about the use of imagery - as IanVisits wrote the other day - https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/a-couple-of-messages-about-changes-to-ianvisits-66081/ - you may get sent images that the sender doesn't have the right to use, or they may be licenced only for them to use - and it would be you picking up the fines for the misuse.

 

[StKeverne1497]

You would be better off focusing your energy at making a 5 days a week 15 minute video with the same stories you're thinking of neatly packaged up.

But that means doing some actual work. Researching, scripting and producing even a 15 minute programme, five days a week, is quite a task. Set the 'bots on it and it becomes "sit back and watch the ad revenue roll in"!

Maybe I'm being too cynical

 

[BrianW]

Definitely, I didn't realise he had designed some of HS2

I gave Rail Natter a look in onYou TUbe:

and found it rather 'ad hoc' and disorganised- showing some 'issues' relating to live broadcasting- as I see now others have noted usefully to you.

OP Trainbeacon (Verified representative- what's that?)- my initial thoughts such as they are:

- A 24/7 enterprise will take some staffing, moderation etc- like Rail Forum
- How will it be paid for?
- The man in Seat 61 has been going some while, accumulating kudos and credibility. This tells something of how he sustains it: https://www.seat61.com/

I wish you well.

 

[trainbeacon]

Who is your audience? Do you know of anyone with an appetite to sit there watching railway news 24 hours a day? How are you going to fill the time? Bulletins summarising recent stories, long gaps between stories coming out or just fill it with anything that might be relevant? You say you're concentrating on UK railway news - there really isn't going to be much to report at 2am on a Sunday - and would anyone be watching anyway?

You would be better off focusing your energy at making a 5 days a week 15 minute video with the same stories you're thinking of neatly packaged up. Do it in a way that lets you reuse much of the content in audio and video formats means you instantly get a daily podcast that can be pushed to all the usual sources too (but don't make the mistake that some do, a video can't be turned into a audio only format just by taking away the pictures).

Finally, as @StKeverne1497 noted, you need to be very careful about your sources. Stories being available on a publicly visible RSS feed does not imply you can use that as a source. You need to be extremely careful too about the use of imagery - as IanVisits wrote the other day - https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/a-couple-of-messages-about-changes-to-ianvisits-66081/ - you may get sent images that the sender doesn't have the right to use, or they may be licenced only for them to use - and it would be you picking up the fines for the misuse.

Hi, thanks very much for your feedback which is very useful. To answer some of your questions:

Who is your audience?

I don't know at this point, it's at the exploratory stage and trying to work this out. That's why I'm posting here to find out if there is any interest and to discover the issues that may arise, like people have brought up.

Do you know of anyone with an appetite to sit there watching railway news 24 hours a day?

No, perhaps this is too much. However, different timezones and diversification in to world train news outside UK may help this somewhat.

there really isn't going to be much to report at 2am on a Sunday

This is very true.

Stories being available on a publicly visible RSS feed does not imply you can use that as a source.

I hadn't really considered this to be case are you sure if credit is given and the whole article isn't reproduced? Is there any case history?

Thanks again very much welcome your feedback.

 

[trainbeacon]

I gave Rail Natter a look in onYou TUbe:

and found it rather 'ad hoc' and disorganised- showing some 'issues' relating to live broadcasting- as I see now others have noted usefully to you.

OP Trainbeacon (Verified representative- what's that?)- my initial thoughts such as they are:

- A 24/7 enterprise will take some staffing, moderation etc- like Rail Forum
- How will it be paid for?
- The man in Seat 61 has been going some while, accumulating kudos and credibility. This tells something of how he sustains it: https://www.seat61.com/

I wish you well.

Hi Brian, thanks very much for your feedback. You have raised some excellent points. The idea for now is that this will mostly be automated using an artificial intelligence pipeline, and could possibly be paid for with advertising revenue.

Obviously, this presents some challenges like moderation and editorial control and direction, and, a general reluctance towards artificial intelligence.

Yes Seat 61 is a great website.

 

[dosxuk]

I hadn't really considered this to be case are you sure if credit is given and the whole article isn't reproduced?

Take the New York Times. Their basic T&C's for their RSS feeds say:

Terms & Conditions​

We allow the use of NYTimes.com RSS feeds for personal use in a news reader or as part of a non-commercial blog. We require proper format and attribution whenever New York Times content is posted on your website, and we reserve the right to require that you cease distributing NYTimes.com content. Please read the Terms and Conditions for complete instructions. Commercial use of the Service is prohibited without prior written permission from NYT which may be requested via email to: [email protected].

Non-commercial, as far as they are concerned, is the same as not making any money from it - if you're pushing their content onto Youtube they would consider that to be commercial usage.

Other organisations would allow you to use their content, but unaltered and with full attribution. Others won't allow you to use it at all. Others will say, do with it as you wish. Either way, you need to be absolutely sure you have the permission to do with all sources what you wish to do - it will be your wallet on the block if you mess it up.

As a final tip on this matter, be very very careful if you try to rely on "fair use" clauses. The vast majority of the stuff written on the internet is about the US rules on this, which are pretty flexible. The UK does not have anything like the same flexibility - we have "fair dealings" - which are a very limited number of specific exceptions to copyright law, but "fair" is not legally defined, so expect a legal battle if you annoy someone and try to use fair use as a get out.

 

[trainbeacon]

Take the New York Times. Their basic T&C's for their RSS feeds say:



Non-commercial, as far as they are concerned, is the same as not making any money from it - if you're pushing their content onto Youtube they would consider that to be commercial usage.

Other organisations would allow you to use their content, but unaltered and with full attribution. Others won't allow you to use it at all. Others will say, do with it as you wish. Either way, you need to be absolutely sure you have the permission to do with all sources what you wish to do - it will be your wallet on the block if you mess it up.

As a final tip on this matter, be very very careful if you try to rely on "fair use" clauses. The vast majority of the stuff written on the internet is about the US rules on this, which are pretty flexible. The UK does not have anything like the same flexibility - we have "fair dealings" - which are a very limited number of specific exceptions to copyright law, but "fair" is not legally defined, so expect a legal battle if you annoy someone and try to use fair use as a get out.

Thanks for the info. How about using automated summarisation? Eg the New York Times reported on .... that ... [AI summarised]

 

[dosxuk]

Thanks for the info. How about using automated summarisation? Eg the New York Times reported on .... that ... [AI summarised]

There is no singular answer - you would have to contact all of the places you want to take content from and ask them.

And remember, even if you do get permission to use their text as the basis of an AI report, you would still need to tackle the challenge of how to visualise this in a video product. Sites like the New York Times use companies like Getty for the pictures they illustrate their articles with, you wouldn't get the rights to include those images in your videos without separately licencing them.

 

[trainbeacon]

There is no singular answer - you would have to contact all of the places you want to take content from and ask them.

And remember, even if you do get permission to use their text as the basis of an AI report, you would still need to tackle the challenge of how to visualise this in a video product. Sites like the New York Times use companies like Getty for the pictures they illustrate their articles with, you wouldn't get the rights to include those images in your videos without separately licencing them.

Ok, thanks, very good advice. Incidentally, following your input I've looked in to some terms of UK news sites and guess what some use to generate their articles? AI.

 

[skyhigh]

Ok, thanks, very good advice. Incidentally, following your input I've looked in to some terms of UK news sites and guess what some use to generate their articles? AI.

Doesn't surprise me - they likely have a financial arrangement where they pay the sources that the AI uses.

 

[StKeverne1497]

Thanks for the info. How about using automated summarisation? Eg the New York Times reported on .... that ... [AI summarised]

It's exactly this that the regulators are trying to stop Google, Facebook et. al from doing (my earlier post). The argument goes that summarising for a search link is ok because that drives traffic to the original source, where they can benefit from page views = ad revenue. What Google does though is to summarise the article in a box on the search page with sufficient detail that (it is claimed), people do not click-through to the original website, thus depriving the people who actually did the work from any recompense for that work.

If you are summarising a story sufficiently well that it is still a complete story (which is what you would need on a 24 hour "news" channel) rather than just a headline, then you are doing the same thing that Google does. Let's face it, the last thing you need is for people to have to navigate away from the channel to find out more about a story.

That said, there are some sources of free news - the PR departments of various organisations which would be more than happy to spam your inbox with press release after press release complete with text you can copy-and-paste and often with photographs, diagrams, graphs or even video. Look out for things with "notes for editors" at the end. Take for example the TfW News pages. I'm sure a simple email or phonecall to the media department (see box at top right of the story) will get you all the permissions you need.

 

[trainbeacon]

It's exactly this that the regulators are trying to stop Google, Facebook et. al from doing (my earlier post). The argument goes that summarising for a search link is ok because that drives traffic to the original source, where they can benefit from page views = ad revenue. What Google does though is to summarise the article in a box on the search page with sufficient detail that (it is claimed), people do not click-through to the original website, thus depriving the people who actually did the work from any recompense for that work.

If you are summarising a story sufficiently well that it is still a complete story (which is what you would need on a 24 hour "news" channel) rather than just a headline, then you are doing the same thing that Google does. Let's face it, the last thing you need is for people to have to navigate away from the channel to find out more about a story.

That said, there are some sources of free news - the PR departments of various organisations which would be more than happy to spam your inbox with press release after press release complete with text you can copy-and-paste and often with photographs, diagrams, graphs or even video. Look out for things with "notes for editors" at the end. Take for example the TfW News pages. I'm sure a simple email or phonecall to the media department (see box at top right of the story) will get you all the permissions you need.

Hi, thanks for your feedback. The free news sources like TFW is a very good idea, which I shall definitely look in to. Personally I tend to like to look at primary sources like RMT anyway - they tend to share a totally different picture to what you see on TV.