New XC contract - what changes would you like to see?

[james60059]

The MR article says that XC are to study future opportunities for its Turbostar routes.

I wonder if that means reinstating 1L34 09:22 Birmingham New Street - Stansted Airport and the corresponding 1N57 13:27 Stansted Airport - Birmingham New Street. Don't think it's ran since before Covid

 

[irish_rail]

Only poor in one direction. The Plymouth connects into the Northbound Avanti.

Yes true, but southbound no connection. It isn't on really, so much focus from Northern mayors and powerhouses on Liverpool to Leeds, yet not a single mention of the fact there are no direct trains to the entire south west, or even a reasonable connection. There are alot of northerners living down here, and a lot of northerners come down on holiday etc. Either a handful of direct trains are needed or at very least a reasonable connection southbound to avoid a one hour wait at New Street.

 

[FlyingPotato]

Or they can go via London. Not necessarily quicker but almost certainly more enjoyable, and not unlikely to be cheaper.

It's one of those journeys that basically takes all day anyway.

It wouldn't be enjoyable for those with disabilities, lots of luggage, the elderly, those in wheelchairs, the blind, those with anxiety, those who don't know the tube, those who speak little English.

I enjoy trains but I struggle enough with London

I know it's not a relevant thread but I'm tired of people saying London is easy and enjoyable when for the majority for the population that is not the case

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know it's not a relevant thread but I'm tired of people saying London is easy and enjoyable when for the majority for the population that is not the case

Taxis are plentiful at all London termini, and unlike in other cities are usually reputable. Just use one to transfer between Paddington and Euston. It's almost certain to be less fraught than New St.

 

[FlyingPotato]

Taxis are plentiful at all London termini, and unlike in other cities are usually reputable. Just use one to transfer between Paddington and Euston. It's almost certain to be less fraught than New St.

So people with disabilities have to pay more to daily tasks?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So people with disabilities have to pay more to daily tasks?

If they prefer a taxi, yes. There's an accessible bus service (205) between the two stations if cost is the most important matter*. I was more referring that post to people who don't find it pleasurable to cross London.

Having a lot of luggage isn't a protected characteristic.

* On the grounds that there isn't an accessible Tube service**, I would like to see a legal challenge of London transfers on through fares being Tube only, but that's for another day/thread.
** Paddington is accessible, but Euston Square only is westbound, which means faffing about going to Kings Cross and back and an extra crossing of the Euston Road, which is far more faffy than the bus or a taxi.

 

[irish_rail]

Taxis are plentiful at all London termini, and unlike in other cities are usually reputable. Just use one to transfer between Paddington and Euston. It's almost certain to be less fraught than New St.

And will set you back 20 quid. When the traffic is bad it absolutely crawls too. Fact is, people should have the choice of not having to travel 100s of miles east just to go back west again!

 

[Bletchleyite]

And will set you back 20 quid. When the traffic is bad it absolutely crawls too. Fact is, people should have the choice of not having to travel 100s of miles east just to go back west again!

I agree, XC needs vastly improving. But via London would be my advice at present.

 

[irish_rail]

I agree, XC needs vastly improving. But via London would be my advice at present.

The other big issue with Paddington to Euston is the poor tube, its a bugger with luggage, or disability due to Euston Square tube stations layout and location. Which does force passengers into expensive taxis. Id agree more where we referring to Paddington to Kings Cross or Liverpool st, but Euston is not well served from Paddington, further strengthening the case for decent south west to North west connections or direct services via XC.

 

[Bluejays]

I'm quite pleased by the Cardiff to Edinburgh service. At the very least it's 4 or 5 more carriages between Cardiff and Bristol. Hopefully some decent prices advances for the full journey aswell, although that may be wishful thinking.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which does force passengers into expensive taxis.

Well, it doesn't, because as I mentioned there's the 205. People may choose to take a taxi for convenience, though I think based on the layout of both stations you might actually walk less far if you use the 205 westbound (eastbound it'd be a lot further with two crosses of the road).

Euston Square westbound really needs a lift, then there'd not be a problem. (People seem to have an issue with the street level walk to that station, and it is a bit silly that there's no entrance at the other end given that the station runs from the present entrance to more or less directly outside Euston, but you actually walk about the same to get to Euston Square from Euston as you do to get to the Northern Line Bank branch or the Victoria line, you just walk that underground).

 

[WelshBluebird]

I'm quite pleased by the Cardiff to Edinburgh service. At the very least it's 4 or 5 more carriages between Cardiff and Bristol. Hopefully some decent prices advances for the full journey aswell, although that may be wishful thinking.

I'm somewhat less optimistic. It sounds like one service a day so is hardly going to make a dent in capacity between Cardiff and Bristol, and since when are XC known for decent priced advance tickets?

 

[irish_rail]

Well, it doesn't, because as I mentioned there's the 205. People may choose to take a taxi for convenience, though I think based on the layout of both stations you might actually walk less far if you use the 205 westbound (eastbound it'd be a lot further with two crosses of the road).

Euston Square westbound really needs a lift, then there'd not be a problem. (People seem to have an issue with the street level walk to that station, and it is a bit silly that there's no entrance at the other end given that the station runs from the present entrance to more or less directly outside Euston, but you actually walk about the same to get to Euston Square from Euston as you do to get to the Northern Line Bank branch or the Victoria line, you just walk that underground).

But that lack of lift is a huge problem at Euston Square if you have a pushchair, lots of luggage or are disabled. Id argue as well, going train, out to the street onto a bus, then back onto a train really isn't desirable and I don't think many would willingly choose this travel option.

 

[yorkie]

I'm quite pleased by the Cardiff to Edinburgh service. At the very least it's 4 or 5 more carriages between Cardiff and Bristol. Hopefully some decent prices advances for the full journey aswell, although that may be wishful thinking.

XC charge a premium for longer distance journeys, with affordable fares only generally available for the shorter hops; the forum's site should offer the cheapest combination of short-hop cheaper fares for such a journey, but please do create a thread nearer the time and/or when you are planning a journey, in the Fare Advice section, if you have any queries regarding that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But that lack of lift is a huge problem at Euston Square if you have a pushchair, lots of luggage or are disabled.

It is possible to do it step free by doubling back at Kings Cross St Pancras which is an island platform. It's a faff though, including a slightly longer walk at Euston and needing to cross the road.

Works for HS2 are supposed to solve this, though. Indeed, with HS2 and Old Oak, I can't see any reason I'd even consider XC for that journey, as changing at Old Oak will be easier than New St - it's smaller and will be designed within fewer constraints.

Id argue as well, going train, out to the street onto a bus, then back onto a train really isn't desirable and I don't think many would willingly choose this travel option.

Well. it's up to you if you allow your personal prejudices to cloud the route between the two stations that has the least walking involved (even considering taxis) and is fully accessible.

But back to XC - I agree it needs improving - it just needs improving so much that my strong advice to anyone who is about to use it is simply to avoid it in any even vaguely sensible way possible. It's grim. And it will continue to be grim until it either gets (a) enough Voyagers that there are no trains shorter than 4-car, or (b) a new 7-8 car fleet. My preference would be the latter (and to give them a low density interior like Avanti's forthcoming 80x, plus things like a family carriage and decent catering), but the former would be OK if they'd swap the seats for something with a thinner back so the legroom isn't so tight.

 

[Bluejays]

I'm somewhat less optimistic. It sounds like one service a day so is hardly going to make a dent in capacity between Cardiff and Bristol, and since when are XC known for decent priced advance tickets?

Like I said, probably more wishful thinking about decent fares rather than any grounding in reality, but you never know. As for the extra capacity between Cardiff and Bristol, depending on time of day it could be very useful. Potentially a bit quicker than the GWR to temple meads aswell.

 

[Snow1964]

I'm somewhat less optimistic. It sounds like one service a day so is hardly going to make a dent in capacity between Cardiff and Bristol, and since when are XC known for decent priced advance tickets?

If XC runs trains from North to Cardiff (and that it might turn out to be just one per day), have to question if Bristol Parkway should still be served.

Thinking about it, biggest loss would be those in Swindon (still reachable from Reading or Gloucester). Possibly opens option of Worcestershire Parkway instead.

Of course if not going to call at Bristol Parkway, bit of shame the old direct Midland route into Bristol is no longer still there, to avoid the slow crawl around Yate spur, Stoke Gifford spur and congested line through Coalpit Heath.

But won't really know until more details come out

 

[WelshBluebird]

Like I said, probably more wishful thinking about decent fares rather than any grounding in reality, but you never know. As for the extra capacity between Cardiff and Bristol, depending on time of day it could be very useful. Potentially a bit quicker than the GWR to temple meads aswell.

I guess I am somewhat skeptical having dealt with XC on a regular basis over the years! In terms of the speed, you'd possibly save a couple of minutes by not stopping at Filton but apart from that I don't see where or how they could make any noteworthy speed gains compared to the existing GWR services.

If XC runs trains from North to Cardiff (and that it might turn out to be just one per day), have to question if Bristol Parkway should still be served.

Thinking about it, biggest loss would be those in Swindon (still reachable from Reading or Gloucester). Possibly opens option of Worcestershire Parkway instead.

Of course if not going to call at Bristol Parkway, bit of shame the old direct Midland route into Bristol is no longer still there, to avoid the slow crawl around Yate spur, Stoke Gifford spur and congested line through Coalpit Heath.

But won't really know until more details come out

I'd imagine it will likely just be an extension of one of the Temple Meads <--> Edinburgh services so tbh I can't see them cutting out Parkway (or indeed the point of doing so given it would just be a few minutes saved). Cutting out Temple Meads and going direct Parkway <--> Cardiff would actually save time, but I can't see them choosing that option!

 

[Snow1964]

I'd imagine it will likely just be an extension of one of the Temple Meads <--> Edinburgh services so tbh I can't see them cutting out Parkway (or indeed the point of doing so given it would just be a few minutes saved). Cutting out Temple Meads and going direct Parkway <--> Cardiff would actually save time, but I can't see them choosing that option!

I did wonder if it would simply be a substitute for one of the 170 workings via Chepstow, not via Severn tunnel.

I have some vague recollection (which might be wrong) that TfW can't add Cardiff- Bristol services, and neither can another English operator add services from Bristol to Cardiff.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I did wonder if it would simply be a substitute for one of the 170 workings via Chepstow, not via Severn tunnel.

I have some vague recollection (which might be wrong) that TfW can't add Cardiff- Bristol services, and neither can another English operator add services from Bristol to Cardiff.

That would mean there cannot be any additional trains between Cardiff and Bristol, ever!

 

[jonboy35]

I’ve said it before and will say it again lol , shame there isn’t a service from Preston to Cornwall or a west coast service like there was years and years ago going to plymouth and Cornwall
Yes there is manchester to Bristol , but you have to change , as well manchester to Bournemouth , why can’t there be Manchester to Plymouth
but when you see Scotland stations to Plymouth via east coast , not fair on us who live west coast lol just saying lol

Apparently this post I wrote was moved from XC new contract thread to here , Was told I was speculative, not once I deemed it this , I was mearly saying , shame there wasn’t , based on facts

 

[heathrowrail]

I hope the refurbishment will actually see XC interiors on the voyagers and not just another Virgin trains touch up like the last "refresh". The seats are knackered for starters, about time they were all ripped out and replaced.

 

[dk1]

I did wonder if it would simply be a substitute for one of the 170 workings via Chepstow, not via Severn tunnel.

I have some vague recollection (which might be wrong) that TfW can't add Cardiff- Bristol services, and neither can another English operator add services from Bristol to Cardiff.

I’d put my money on just an extension starting Cardiff via Bristol Temple Meads whether that be something like the 06:35 or possibly an attachment to an existing Plymouth-Edinburgh service there. Would imagine it’s just going to be as basic as that.

TfW did have ambitions for some sort of Swansea-Bristol service that I think was not approved. Cross Country already have rights to that route.

I wonder if that means reinstating 1L34 09:22 Birmingham New Street - Stansted Airport and the corresponding 1N57 13:27 Stansted Airport - Birmingham New Street. Don't think it's ran since before Covid

Yes all going back to hourly right through to Stansted is how I understand it. Some GA Norwich-Stansted services have been rammed south of Cambridge this summer where the XC service is missing/terminated at Cambridge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope the refurbishment will actually see XC interiors on the voyagers and not just another Virgin trains touch up like the last "refresh". The seats are knackered for starters, about time they were all ripped out and replaced.

Sadly it doesn't appear to include new seats. It would be good if they did, because seats like those on the refurbished Pendolinos would either allow them to add more seats without reducing legroom or to increase legroom (either would be good).

 

[heathrowrail]

Sadly it doesn't appear to include new seats. It would be good if they did, because seats like those on the refurbished Pendolinos would either allow them to add more seats without reducing legroom or to increase legroom (either would be good).

Agreed it will be similar to Avanti's touch up polishing a turd approach.

 

[RobShipway]

The other big issue with Paddington to Euston is the poor tube, its a bugger with luggage, or disability due to Euston Square tube stations layout and location. Which does force passengers into expensive taxis. Id agree more where we referring to Paddington to Kings Cross or Liverpool st, but Euston is not well served from Paddington, further strengthening the case for decent south west to North west connections or direct services via XC.

Couldn't you just travel on a GWR service to Reading from the South West and then up from there on an XC service to Manchester Piccadilly?

There is at least more options to travel from the South West to the North West than there is for those of us in the South East who have no choice but to travel through London and travel from Victoria to Euston either via taxi or on the tube.

 

[JonathanH]

There is at least more options to travel from the South West to the North West than there is for those of us in the South East who have no choice but to travel through London and travel from Victoria to Euston either via taxi or on the tube.

No one has to go to Victoria to get to Euston if they don't want to. Any XC service to Brighton would be hopelessly slower than taking Thameslink to St Pancras and walking 10 minutes to Euston, St Pancras or King's Cross for fast journeys north.

The opening of St Pancras Thameslink Station was a step change in connectivity northbound from Brighton which just about closed off any thought that there need to be XC journeys to Brighton.

 

[FlyingPotato]

No one has to go to Victoria to get to Euston if they don't want to. Any XC service to Brighton would be hopelessly slower than taking Thameslink to St Pancras and walking 10 minutes to Euston, St Pancras or King's Cross for fast journeys north.

The opening of St Pancras Thameslink Station was a step change in connectivity northbound from Brighton which just about closed off any thought that there need to be XC journeys to Brighton.

What about those who are blind, have luggage or have difficulty walking

My partner did the walk with luggage and had to do it quickly due to delayed trains and had an asthma attack (at the time the tube was not available)

It's not an easy walk

And it's unfair those who are able to say it is

I'm not arguing for services to Brighton but just arguing the fact that crossing London is not easy for all

 

[lachlan]

Well, it doesn't, because as I mentioned there's the 205. People may choose to take a taxi for convenience, though I think based on the layout of both stations you might actually walk less far if you use the 205 westbound (eastbound it'd be a lot further with two crosses of the road).

Euston Square westbound really needs a lift, then there'd not be a problem. (People seem to have an issue with the street level walk to that station, and it is a bit silly that there's no entrance at the other end given that the station runs from the present entrance to more or less directly outside Euston, but you actually walk about the same to get to Euston Square from Euston as you do to get to the Northern Line Bank branch or the Victoria line, you just walk that underground).

There was talk of a tunnel from Euston to Euston Square a while back for HS2, not sure if that is still planned?

 

[150249]

Will this involve a repaint? I'm not a massive fan of the grey XC livery