Newspaper/Mail Trains circa 80's

[Eldrivk]

Can anyone give me info on Trains that performed Newspaper and or Mail runs out of Paddington in the 80's.

I want Engine Classes involved, Rolling stock used, photos would help, times and routes please.

thanks.

 

[Rugd1022]

Can anyone give me info on Trains that performed Newspaper and or Mail runs out of Paddington in the 80's.

I want Engine Classes involved, Rolling stock used, photos would help, times and routes please.

thanks.

I can't remember the exact timings off hand but when I was at Old Oak ('83-'85) we used to take the empty vans up to Padd for the Bristol and Swansea papers. The Bristol one might have been the 02.15 thinking about it. There was also the 03.55 Aylesbury papers which we worked with a 31, 47 or 50, depending on what was available. Quite often this was made up of one van, there was a quick stop at High Wycombe to offload papers there, then another at Princes Risborough before nipping down the branch to Aylesbury. Once offloaded, we did a quick run round and had a cup of tea before taking the empty van straight back to Old Oak.

I'm pretty sure the Bristol was booked for a 50, and the Swansea was usually a 47, often one of Landore's eth fitted batch. While all this was going on, the Paddington 'A' Pilot (usually 08 944) would be busy shunting vans about, as sometimes two sets would be brought up from Old Oak by one loco, thus the 08 would drop on the Bristol end and split one set off into another platform. The Bristol set was often quite long, and drawing them out the 08 would be way past Ranelagh Bridge to clear the dummy, so two or three shunters would ride in the vans passing hand signals along the train as it pushed them back into the curved platforms.

The Padd-PZ Mail was booked for a 50 but a 47 would be dropped on it sometimes. A Link 3 Old Oak driver worked it to Bristol, had his break then worked back with the Up Sleeper from PZ, which was also booked for a 50 - quite often this turned out to be a pair all the way from PZ.

There were other Newspaper trains out of Padd in the same period but I can't remember them all (sadly). The Class 128 Diesel Parcels Units (W55991 and W55992) worked the shorter runs to Reading and Didcot though, I do remember those, if there was any extra traffic for these a bogie GUV would be attached.

One of the perks of working these jobs was the massive pile of free papers we were given, and the normal trick with the 03.55 Aylesbury was to stop opposite the carriage sidngs and throw a bundle off for the night shift lads on the shed. Happy days.

Nidge

Edit : just remembered, there are some good b&w shots of vans being loaded in John Vaughans softback book 'This Is Paddington'. I think it came out in 1982 but you should be able to find a copy somewhere. If I can dig up any more info on the timings etc I'll let you know. Most of the stock used were Mk1 BGs and GUVs, with a few four wheeled CCT vans until about 1983 / 84. The 03.55 Aylsebury often had just one of these on.

 

[4SRKT]

You're making me very misty eyed for the bygone railway age of my youth there.

 

[Downsman]

I can add an historical snippet about newspaper trains. My great-uncle Harry McCarthy ran a taxi business and became involved with the transport of papers from Fleet Street to the London railway termini. I can only guess that the date was about 1920. To replace the horse-cart transport of newspapers, he built wooden box frames to sit on top of a Bedford vehicle chassis used for taxi cabs, thus creating an early version of motor delivery vans. Harry went out of business shortly afterwards, following a fire at his premises, so I suspect he was not involved in the subsequent general replacement of horse-carts by vans that took place during subsequent years.

 

[Eldrivk]

So, would the Vans be shunted up from Old Oak Common to a Platform in Paddington for Loading with the 08 or would say a Class 31 bring the empties in for loading and then haul them to their destinations?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There was often a single former GWR Siphon van parked in the bay at Newbury early mornings which would be collected by a class 31 in true pick up style until the early 1980s; presumably this ran on to Paddington and was the up version of an equivalent down train; I'm guessing this was how Newbury received the newspapers in those days and the morning pick up was to return the van ecs to London ready for the next morning?

 

[KiddyKid]

We had the Aylesbury and Taplow papers in our link at OOC, as was said above the Aylesbury was rostered a 31 but could produce a 47/50 at times. The Taplow papers were carried in a BG on the rear of a full commuter set, the papers were unloaded and the train went ecs to Reading to form an all stations Rdg-Oxf service(06.00ish). On a Saturday I can recall having a diesel parcel unit on the Taplow, I cant remember specific dates though.

 

[Old Timer]

I recall working on the GC in the late 1970s/early 80s.

The Aylesbury news used to run from Paddington via Old Oak Common, Greenford, High Wycombe and Princes Risborough to Aylesbury. 0355 off Paddingtom seems a little late, as I recall the timings bringing the train to Gerrards Cross for about 0330 or thereabouts.

The News was normally the train that we took SLW out with on the Down and depending how the Cricklewood to Calvert return was running SLW was taken out with this or the empty news vans going back to Old Oak Common.

The Aylesbury News usually took a Class 31 or a 47 but on a couple of occasions it ran with a Class 50. I remember this well because it was the only occasion us LM men used to get to ride the footplate officially on a 50, as 50s were a rareity in the LM London Division.

The only other turn they sometimes worked was the 1740 Paddington to Birmingham New St via the GC.

I learnt that Western men have long memories because I queried why West Ruislip box never had a pack of papers thrown out whereas everyone else did. Apparantly there had been a dispute with an Old Oak Common train crew (who worked this job) many years previously and revenge was obtained by not throwing any newspapers out.

I did try to explain that the Signalmen had long changed and try to get West Ruislip put on the "paper distribution" again, but I never did find out how it went as it was towards the end of my time on that line.

 

[Rugd1022]

So, would the Vans be shunted up from Old Oak Common to a Platform in Paddington for Loading with the 08 or would say a Class 31 bring the empties in for loading and then haul them to their destinations?

Usually, the first loco to bring up a set of vans would work the next departure outward, with another loco taking out the set it had just brought in first. It depended on the diagrams but I can remember bringing up the Bristol vans and staying on the same loco all night (a 47 on this particular night), doing a couple of trips between Padd and Old Oak. Other light loco moves took place during the night too, namely using a loco as replacement for the staff bus which shuttled between Old Oak and Padd at half hourly intervals. If the station was busy it would usually start and finish in the parcels platform 1a, using a 31, 47 or 50.

Old Timer - thinking back on it you're probably right, 03.55 does seem a bit late.... it might have been 01.55, but for some reason 03.55 sticks in the mind. I'm still trying to recall the departure times for the other paper trains out of Padd but am struggling after twenty five years! As well as handling the Bristol, Swansea, Aylesbury and Taplow Papers (plus the Penzance TPO and Sleepers), the mainline platforms always seemed really busy between 23.00 and say 04.00, I'm sure there were other destinations. Interesting to hear about the bobby at West Ruislip... some drivers and signalmen never got on did they?

Nidge

 

[Eldrivk]

Usually, the first loco to bring up a set of vans would work the next departure outward, with another loco taking out the set it had just brought in first. It depended on the diagrams but I can remember bringing up the Bristol vans and staying on the same loco all night (a 47 on this particular night), doing a couple of trips between Padd and Old Oak. Other light loco moves took place during the night too, namely using a loco as replacement for the staff bus which shuttled between Old Oak and Padd at half hourly intervals. If the station was busy it would usually start and finish in the parcels platform 1a, using a 31, 47 or 50.
Nidge

Oh, that is interesting, so would that mean you could have run out of Old Oak with Empty Vans to Paddington that may be destined for say Bristol, then Un -Couple and run round to another Platform where some Vans are already full and haul them out?

How many vans would or could be on a typical consist?

How many trains would run out of there with mail and/or papers on a typical night?

And if it is not to much too ask, what stops would be made on a journey? Lets say to Oxford or to Bristol, is it 'all stops'?

 

[Old Timer]

...Old Timer - thinking back on it you're probably right, 03.55 does seem a bit late.... it might have been 01.55, but for some reason 03.55 sticks in the mind.

0355 did with me also.

I wonder IF it could have been the arrival time at Aylesbury maybe, or maybe it was 0255 off Paddington ?

If you ever came across a Pilotman doing SLW in the late 70's / early 80's along the GC/GW then it would have been ME !

I always got the overnight SLW on the GC/GW, indeed I loved to work on that line as it was such a pleasant job, and you always had decent train crew and Signalmen as well !

To some extent it was a little bit like a little branch line in some way out location, but one with a London terminal !

The whole Marylebone area just used to be "left to get on with it" because the Divisional HQ at Euston was concentrating on the WCML, the MML, and the NLL, which were much more trouble. The Marylebone lines just seemed to run quietly in the background never causing any problems.

 

[Eldrivk]

The News was normally the train that we took SLW

Sorry, I don't really know lots abouit this stuff, what is or does SLW mean?
Thanks.

Also, two of you said ecs... "unloaded and the train went ecs to Reading" and " to return the van ecs to London " and I don't understand that term either.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Sorry, I don't really know lots abouit this stuff, what is or does SLW mean?
Thanks.

Also, two of you said ecs... "unloaded and the train went ecs to Reading" and " to return the van ecs to London " and I don't understand that term either.

ECS - Empty Coaching Stock
SLW - Single Line Working

I'm sure someone will explain the ins and outs of those terms, but I'm not that knowledgable on mainline matters.

 

[4SRKT]

ECS is Empty Coaching Stock, and SLW means Single Line Working,

EDIT: Snap!

 

[Old Timer]

Sorry, I don't really know lots abouit this stuff, what is or does SLW mean?
Thanks.

Also, two of you said ecs... "unloaded and the train went ecs to Reading" and " to return the van ecs to London " and I don't understand that term either.

SLW is Single Line Working, which is exactly what it say on the tin. A Pilotman acts as a physical form of train staff and accompanies every train over the single line so as to ensure that there can only ever be one train on the temporary single line. The other line is Blocked for repairs, etc.

ECS stands for Empty Coaching Stock, again what is says on the tin. Although a van is not "coaching stock" in the true sense, they were treated in the same way because vans such as parcels and newspaper vans were the same dimension width-wise and were thus out of gauge if operated in a freight train.

 

[Eldrivk]

SLW is Single Line Working, which is exactly what it say on the tin. A Pilotman acts as a physical form of train staff and accompanies every train over the single line so as to ensure that there can only ever be one train on the temporary single line. The other line is Blocked for repairs, etc.

So any train wanting to pass over that line has to wait for this person to be on their footplate or in their cab then?

If that is so, how does he get back to say 'point A, if that was 2 miles away, or am I being daft?

And I suppose this means the other line in the case of double track may have um... workmen working on that line... :roll: I love talking about things that I have no idea about :P

 

[richw]

So any train wanting to pass over that line has to wait for this person to be on their footplate or in their cab then?

If that is so, how does he get back to say 'point A, if that was 2 miles away, or am I being daft?

pretty much yes, if that person was on board you could enter the single line bit, he'd return with a service working the opposite direction

 

[ralphchadkirk]

pretty much yes, if that person was on board you could enter the single line bit, he'd return with a service working the opposite direction

Not quite. It's a bit more complicated than that.

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule Book Modules/P - Working by Pilotman/GERT8000-P1 Iss 2.pdf

 

[Eldrivk]

Not quite. It's a bit more complicated than that.

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Book/Rule Book Modules/P - Working by Pilotman/GERT8000-P1 Iss 2.pdf

Yep, I like that, I can probably use that info. Thanks.

 

[Old Timer]

Yep, I like that, I can probably use that info. Thanks.

In essence, simply think of it as a man acting as a form of single line train staff. The detail can complicate a rather simple concept.

 

[Eldrivk]

OK, Back to the News Vans.

How many Trains would be in the station for loading at one time?

 

[Old Timer]

OK, Back to the News Vans.

How many Trains would be in the station for loading at one time?

That depends on the station and upon the railway served newspaper distribution "hubs".

I dont have easy access to my records from the 80s but from what I recall, there were three newspaper trains serving the following distribution hubs :-
Watford
Hemel Hempstead
Leighton Buzzard
Bletchley
Northampton
Rugby
Coventry
Birmingham New St

The first train out was I believe bound for New St, and running nonstop as I recall possible 1G50. I have a feeling this might have gone to Shrewsbury as a separate service starting at New St, or possibly I am wrong and it was destined there from Euston. Memory lets me down.

The second was bound for Coventry stopping at Rugby, possibly 1G51

The third was 1B01 0230 Euston to Northampton which stopped at Watford Jct, Hemel Hempstead, Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley and Northampton.

The London Division vans were tripped back to Euston on 3A07 (?) Stranraer Harbour to Euston NPCCS van train.

The Birmingham and Coventry vans were tripped back on a morning Birmingham New St to Willesden NPCCS van train to I recall.

Obviously other Regions were different.

The Eastern Region from Kings Cross used to operate trains to Peterborough calling intermediately. There was a Grimsby train which ran via Newark and Lincoln but which I believe was formed out of a St Pancras Nottingham service, although I could well be wrong and it could have been a Kings Cross job.

Newspapers in the North West were distributed from Manchester but other than the Manchester - Cleethorpes through loco hauled passenger, news and mail train I know practically nothing at all about the distribution network from there.

 

[Eldrivk]

Well Old Timer, you know enough for me.

I am using this info to recreate a run using Railworks 2 Rail Simulator so the info I have so far has helped to 'dress the yard' and given me ideas for 'events' to keep the player interested whilst driving the route.

When I build scenarios I like to add historical facts that 'pop up' whilst the player is playing the game and so far this thread has been great for me. So, I have decided to set the scenario as a run from Paddington to Oxford using a Class 31. Notwithstanding the fact stated in this thread that a Class 128 would probably have performed that run. I will add that as a pop up fact in the scenario.

I will also add the fun fact about the long memories of these line men :P and the fact that great-uncle Harry McCarthy clearly invented the 'White Van'

So, my next question is, would the train drop off vans at certain stops or just unload the papers at the stops? Or perhaps there is a mix of both going on as 'empties' are clearly brought back to Old Oak Common.


I hope no one minds if I use their info for my scenario, if you do, please let me know. If you want credits for you anecdotes I will add those to my website when I publish the scenario.

thanks guys.

 

[Rugd1022]

Oh, that is interesting, so would that mean you could have run out of Old Oak with Empty Vans to Paddington that may be destined for say Bristol, then Un -Couple and run round to another Platform where some Vans are already full and haul them out?

How many vans would or could be on a typical consist?

How many trains would run out of there with mail and/or papers on a typical night?

And if it is not to much too ask, what stops would be made on a journey? Lets say to Oxford or to Bristol, is it 'all stops'?

Sort of... after bringing in the first set of vans we would go light engine back to Old Oak (only three miles away remember) and pick up the next set. It varied from night to night, but the last job would often be to couple up to the Sleeper stock at Padd which had come up from from Penzance, leave it there for another crew, then go back to Old Oak in the staff van to book off and go home.

As for consists.... again, it varied, as I said before the Aylesbury would often be just one van but could easily be two, three or four. The vans weren't dropped off at each stop on the route, we'd just wait in the platform with the whole train while the station staff unloaded their papers, then carry on to the next stop and repeat the process until we got to our destination. Whilst the last batch of papers were being unloaded, we'd hook off, run round, have a quick brew on the engine then return to Old Oak with the empty vans. The normal move was to arrive onto the Up Reception at Old Oak (coming directly off 'The Wycombe' line), get the signal at the end to draw forward, then set the vans back into an empty road in the carriage sidings, under instruction from our guard or one of the carriage shunters. We'd leave the vans there, hook off then go light to the shed and away home. It was always one of my favourite jobs despite the start and finishing times, in the summer with the semaphores still in use it was a joy, the pace was easy and at times it was like being on your own private railway.

As far as I recall the Bristol papers ran through Reading but stopped at Swindon and Bath Spa, with one of the other trains doing the Reading stop. I wish I had some working timetables for the period so I could pin down the jobs I was on a little better! It's strange really, but my memory of some jobs is vague whereas others are very vivid, I can remember what loco we had, which driver I was with, what the weather was like and who else I saw that day, but ask me what I had for my tea last Thursday and I'd be stumped...!

Old Timer - 02.55 sounds much more likely, yes. And as for the Chiltern line in those days, oh yes it really was like being in a different world, we had some great jobs along that route..... the coal to Chinnor Cement works, booked a 31 but most days it was a 47 or 50. I remember being on it one day with Driver Peter Stephens, we had 47 510 'Fair Rosamund' and sat round the back of the island platform at Princes Risb'ro to have our snap in the sunshine, before going back light to OC at more than line speed, we managed just over the ton through Saunderton. We had the Thame tanks for a while too, but only if the Driver requested a secondman for the day. I recall one very sunny Autumn day in late '83 being sent with a pair of 31s to pick up a 50 from Risb'ro which had failed the day before on the Chinnor coal. I think it was 50 033 or 034, but the 31s were 273 and 309 (both OC locos at the time). The reason we took both was they'd been left coupled in multiple outside the Pullman Shed at OC and were the only ones available, we just couldn't be bothered to split them. When we got to Risb'ro we hooked onto the 50 and wanting to make a bit of ovetime, went for a walkr down the old branch towards Watlington.... when we got back to Old Oak the foreman (Norman Porter) asked why we'd taken so long, my Driver told him 'oh, we had trouble getting the brakes off on the 50...'!

Sorry to veer off topic

Nidge

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I hope no one minds if I use their info for my scenario, if you do, please let me know. If you want credits for you anecdotes I will add those to my website when I publish the scenario.

No problem at all - and I could even furnish you with a photo of one of the said GWR Siphon vans at Newbury if you need it for the graphics... Just ask and I'll dig it up.

 

[DarloRich]

A very intresting thread - thanks to everyone who has contributed. Please add more! lol

 

[deltic]

The following newspaper, parcel and mail trains worked out of Paddington in the early 1980s Mondays -Fridays

00.30 News Penzance 1B01
00.50 Pass & News Milford Haven 1C04
01.10 News Worcester SH 1B08
02.15 News Bristol TM 1B12
02.55 News Banbury 1M19
03.25 News Oxford 1A08
03.55 News Aylesbury 1M83
04.00 News Oxford 1A12
04.15 News Slough 1A14
05.20 Pacels Plymouth 3B20
12.02 parcels Reading 4A60 (DPU)
15.50 Parcels Swansea 3C07
15.55 parcels Reading 4A40 (DPU)
18.50 Parcels Swansea 3C09
19.40 Parcels Bristol TM 3B09
20.44 Parcels Southall 4A42 (DPU)
20.50 Parcels Birmingham NS 3M15
21.45 Parcels Gloucester 3B71
22.25 Postal Penzance 1B64
22.43 parcels Swansea 3C10
23.43 Parcels Brsitol TM 3B10
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
list of Manchester newspaper trains was in this tread http://www.railforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=31425&highlight=Manchester+newspaper&page=2

 

[Old Timer]

Rudg1022

The following newspaper, parcel and mail trains worked out of Paddington in the early 1980s Mondays -Fridays

02.55 News Banbury 1M19

03.55 News Aylesbury 1M83

My apologies - you were right !

Amazing how time plays tricks on the memory.

Do you know if the 0255 Banbury news went via High Wycombe ? Could that be what I am thinking of ?

 

[deltic]

Rudg1022
My apologies - you were right !

Amazing how time plays tricks on the memory.

Do you know if the 0255 Banbury news went via High Wycombe ? Could that be what I am thinking of ?

Yes it did

 

[Saltleyman]

That depends on the station and upon the railway served newspaper distribution "hubs".

The first train out was I believe bound for New St, and running nonstop as I recall possible 1G50. I have a feeling this might have gone to Shrewsbury as a separate service starting at New St, or possibly I am wrong and it was destined there from Euston. Memory lets me down.

If I remember correctly 1G50 split up in New Street it conveyed portions for Wolverhampton and Walsall, when the main train was emptied at New Street I believe it went ECS to Curzon Street to await the empty vans back from Wolverhampton and Walsall then went ECS Curzon Street to Wembley/Camden.