Nightjet interrail tickets jump in price

[Austriantrain]

Yes, it has.

While the European practice of combining and splitting trains en route adds a lot of interest, isn't it so that many of these night trains (when considered for one destination) are of fairly small sleeping/couchette car capacity i.e. relatively low passenger numbers?

Yes exactly. And has been stated here repeatedly, especially the more expensive places in NJ services are almost always sold out, often weeks or months in advance. ÖBB raising prices for those is in principle a sound decision and certainly (by itself) no indication of financial problems; on the contrary, it is good if it helps further expansion of the system. Though it is possible they are now pricing the sleeping cabins above what the market will bear. But if they do, they will find out rapidly.

 

[JustPassingBy]

A few people are complaining about the increases on Twitter with ÖBB responding (in German):
e.g.

https://twitter.com/unsereOEBB/status/1734126277345309030

https://twitter.com/unsereOEBB/status/1734123774373478482

https://twitter.com/unsereOEBB/status/1734122986360246284

There also seems to be something strange going on with the NJ booking functionality on the NJ website - e.g. I booked Berlin to Brussels for 23rd Feb last week and now there is no ticket availability on that route for any date in Jan, Feb or March, for any type of seating or sleeping ticket (they can't all be sold out!).

 

[Krokodil]

I don't see it as a 'reduction' on the normal fare.

I've already paid the 'fare' element of the journey through buying the pass - the price of which goes up every year. All I should be paying for is the accommodation portion.

I haven't done the maths, but how much does the Interrail supplement cost for a given train compared with the difference between a seat and a berth on that same train?

 

[rvdborgt]

I haven't done the maths, but how much does the Interrail supplement cost for a given train compared with the difference between a seat and a berth on that same train?

I've seen a complete table with fares for Amsterdam <=> Zurich/Vienna/Innsbruck and I suspect it will also apply to other international Nightjet trains, although it could be that not all trains have exactly the same fares.

Pass fares in that table in euros, from-to (old price):
Seat: 9.90-24.90 (14)
Couchette (C6): 25.90-59.90 (34)
Couchette (C4): 34.90-69.90 (44)
Sleeper (T3): 69.90-144.90 (74)
Sleeper (Double): 84.90-179.90 (94)
Sleeper (Single): 204.90-419.90 (144)
Sleeper (T3 Plus): 119.90-244.90 (94)
Sleeper (Double Plus): 149.90-309.90 (114)
Sleeper (Single Plus): 334.90-694.90 (164)
[Plus = with shower and toilet in the compartment]

Regular fares also seem to have gone up, but I don't know the previous regular fares so comparing them is a bit difficult.

 

[Krokodil]

There also seems to be something strange going on with the NJ booking functionality on the NJ website - e.g. I booked Berlin to Brussels for 23rd Feb last week and now there is no ticket availability on that route for any date in Jan, Feb or March, for any type of seating or sleeping ticket (they can't all be sold out!).

I found fares available for standard price tickets on Vienna-Brussels all the way up to early April.

Regarding the EN one I went onto the MAV site (god it's clunky). Managed to find fares, including IR discounts. According to Seat 61 MAV release 3 months ahead.

In any case as I'm entitled to FIP (my travel companion isn't, hence looking for Interrail) I'll book the lot through Ffestiniog Travel and let them sort it out. Much easier.

 

[Austriantrain]

I've seen a complete table with fares for Amsterdam <=> Zurich/Vienna/Innsbruck and I suspect it will also apply to other international Nightjet trains, although it could be that not all trains have exactly the same fares.

Pass fares in that table in euros, from-to (old price):
Seat: 9.90-24.90 (14)
Couchette (C6): 25.90-59.90 (34)
Couchette (C4): 34.90-69.90 (44)
Sleeper (T3): 69.90-144.90 (74)
Sleeper (Double): 84.90-179.90 (94)
Sleeper (Single): 204.90-419.90 (144)
Sleeper (T3 Plus): 119.90-244.90 (94)
Sleeper (Double Plus): 149.90-309.90 (114)
Sleeper (Single Plus): 334.90-694.90 (164)
[Plus = with shower and toilet in the compartment]

Regular fares also seem to have gone up, but I don't know the previous regular fares so comparing them is a bit difficult.

It really *is* a very large increase. But as much as I feel for Interrail users, I think it is a price to pay if it leads to stable finances. While I do not have the slightest indication that NJ are struggling, I can image that night trains full with IR users paying very little for their berth will not, economically, be worthwhile. While the same might be said of daytime trains, those have vastly more capacity (and in any case the same discussions happen there in France, Spain, Italy etc).

 

[Flying Snail]

I haven't done the maths, but how much does the Interrail supplement cost for a given train compared with the difference between a seat and a berth on that same train?

I literally compiled a table comparing that in the post above the one you quoted and that poster sneeringly dismissed.

It really *is* a very large increase. But as much as I feel for Interrail users, I think it is a price to pay if it leads to stable finances. While I do not have the slightest indication that NJ are struggling, I can image that night trains full with IR users paying very little for their berth will not, economically, be worthwhile. While the same might be said of daytime trains, those have vastly more capacity (and in any case the same discussions happen there in France, Spain, Italy etc).

AFAIR under the previous fare scheme the discount for interrail was around the 40% off mark for sleepers, about €80 off a standard single and €120 off a deluxe. A decent discount but not accurate to suggest interrail users were paying "very little".

It is clear that OBB have decided to massively increase all the sleeper fares and interrail users are simply not escaping that, they are not as some think, being singled out.

I can only assume they believe they will get enough demand for the sleeper cabins from the wealthy eco-travel virtue signaller types and they no longer need to cater to anything close to ordinary travellers. On the new stock there are less cabins and they are bigger so an increase to Amtrak "room" rates was probably always in the cards. Perhaps the pods will still be just cheap enough for some interrailers who demand privacy but we shall see.

 

[SeanG]

I've seen a complete table with fares for Amsterdam <=> Zurich/Vienna/Innsbruck and I suspect it will also apply to other international Nightjet trains, although it could be that not all trains have exactly the same fares.

Pass fares in that table in euros, from-to (old price):
Seat: 9.90-24.90 (14)
Couchette (C6): 25.90-59.90 (34)
Couchette (C4): 34.90-69.90 (44)
Sleeper (T3): 69.90-144.90 (74)
Sleeper (Double): 84.90-179.90 (94)
Sleeper (Single): 204.90-419.90 (144)
Sleeper (T3 Plus): 119.90-244.90 (94)
Sleeper (Double Plus): 149.90-309.90 (114)
Sleeper (Single Plus): 334.90-694.90 (164)
[Plus = with shower and toilet in the compartment]

Regular fares also seem to have gone up, but I don't know the previous regular fares so comparing them is a bit difficult.

This is in Dutch, but hopefully is easy enough to work out. Fully flex fare in a single berth deluxe sleeper is E1,029. But in reality, most would have a fixed itinerary for a sleeper train so could use a Sparschiene (equivalent to a GB Advance Ticket) which would be E579. This would require a supplement of E694 with an Interrail Pass - so it is worth checking the Sparschiene rather than using your Interrail Pass.

However, if it was my money, as much as I love a sleeper train I would be spending that on a business class flight and a lovely hotel, or even better a budget airline and a mid range hotel for probably at least half the price and a better night sleep

 

[Flying Snail]

This is in Dutch, but hopefully is easy enough to work out. Fully flex fare in a single berth deluxe sleeper is E1,029. But in reality, most would have a fixed itinerary for a sleeper train so could use a Sparschiene (equivalent to a GB Advance Ticket) which would be E579. This would require a supplement of E694 with an Interrail Pass - so it is worth checking the Sparschiene rather than using your Interrail Pass.

However, if it was my money, as much as I love a sleeper train I would be spending that on a business class flight and a lovely hotel, or even better a budget airline and a mid range hotel for probably at least half the price and a better night sleep

The cheaper passholder supplement is mostly on the mid-flex fare and in the example I randomly chose several months in advance there was no Sparschiene offered for sleepers, only couchettes and seats.

Either way I would be of the same view as you, a reasonable hotel plus day travel for considerably less is a much better option.

As much as I like the idea of a sleeper the reality is all too often not that great and it certainly doesn't stack up against these fares that are equivalent to luxury hotel suites.

 

[AlbertBeale]

While the European practice of combining and splitting trains en route adds a lot of interest, isn't it so that many of these night trains (when considered for one destination) are of fairly small sleeping/couchette car capacity i.e. relatively low passenger numbers?

Since this is because of insufficient rolling stock for night services, then as more comes on stream presumably there'll be more frequent services, with longer trains and fewer splits (though yes, the shuffling en route is indeed interesting). When that happens there will presumably be a combination of more capacity and more berths at the lower prices, leaving the railways with a similar overall income to balance their books.

I'm not sure whether, on something like the current Paris/Brussels - Berlin/Vienna sleepers, when more rolling stock is available, the priority should be running every night rather than alternate nights, or running full length to each combination of origin/destination rather than half-and-half and swapping en route? What do others think is better for passengers, and what better/easier for operators?

ÖBB have repeatedly claimed that they're around break-even with their NJ network.

Well - they don't seem to have much problem filling the trains at the moment.

 

[popeter45]

real glad i booked when i did now
sadly prob will be my last time on nightjet unless they U-turn on this quickly
thou will be intresting to see if poeple do buy these prices that match the suggested costs of a mytical Nightstar service

 

[JustPassingBy]

I'm not sure whether ... the priority should be running every night rather than alternate nights, or running full length to each combination of origin/destination rather than half-and-half and swapping en route? What do others think is better for passengers, and what better/easier for operators?

Easier (and likely cheaper) for operators to run whole trains without shuffling I expect. More convenient for passengers to run every night to every destination.

Well - they don't seem to have much problem filling the trains at the moment.

Evidently they have come to the same conclusion that there is more demand than they can supply.

Will be interesting to see how this evolves as NJ has gone from being roughly competitive with (hotel + travel) to now being notably more expensive unless seating/sharing.
Private cabins especially are now priced as luxury travel options - which on one level they are (private space when travelling) but the experience doesn't match a higher-end hotel and too-often there are issues with the travel part (delays and cancellations).

I assume they have done some analysis when deciding these price rises - we'll see whether they understand their market well enough. My instinct is that enough people will be willing to pay these rates as a one-off "experience" but that they won't pick-up regular travellers with these prices. They may have calculated correctly that there are enough one-off travellers/tourists to make it work, but it doesn't sound like a good way to build a sustainable business.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Easier (and likely cheaper) for operators to run whole trains without shuffling I expect. More convenient for passengers to run every night to every destination.


Evidently they have come to the same conclusion that there is more demand than they can supply.

Will be interesting to see how this evolves as NJ has gone from being roughly competitive with (hotel + travel) to now being notably more expensive unless seating/sharing.
Private cabins especially are now priced as luxury travel options - which on one level they are (private space when travelling) but the experience doesn't match a higher-end hotel and too-often there are issues with the travel part (delays and cancellations).

I assume they have done some analysis when deciding these price rises - we'll see whether they understand their market well enough. My instinct is that enough people will be willing to pay these rates as a one-off "experience" but that they won't pick-up regular travellers with these prices. They may have calculated correctly that there are enough one-off travellers/tourists to make it work, but it doesn't sound like a good way to build a sustainable business.

My preference for some years - since my younger couchette days - has been for a proper sleeper berth, but not bothered about en suite etc; this has been affordable if travelling with a friend in a 2-berth sleeper. But if the trend is towards making sleepers (as opposed to couchettes) a more upmarket experience, and pricing them to match, then I'll be priced out of the overnight market. People I know who want to use sleepers in mainland Europe are almost all wanting the comfort/privacy of a sleeper cabin, but don't require lots of extra space / mod cons beyond that. I'd rather see this "routine traveller" market catered for than rich people wanting a luxury experience.

 

[JustPassingBy]

My preference for some years - since my younger couchette days - has been for a proper sleeper berth, but not bothered about en suite etc; this has been affordable if travelling with a friend in a 2-berth sleeper. But if the trend is towards making sleepers (as opposed to couchettes) a more upmarket experience, and pricing them to match, then I'll be priced out of the overnight market. People I know who want to use sleepers in mainland Europe are almost all wanting the comfort/privacy of a sleeper cabin, but don't require lots of extra space / mod cons beyond that. I'd rather see this "routine traveller" market catered for than rich people wanting a luxury experience.

Personally, I agree. But with a limited number of sleeper compartments per train, I guess sleeper compartments effectively are the luxury option on each train - and probably the option with the highest demand too, so ÖBB are pricing accordingly.

At these prices however, the sleeper cabins are significantly more expensive than the Caledonian Sleeper Double En-Suites - which actually do have a double bed so could be regarded as a more legitimate "luxury" option.

 

[popeter45]

A few people are complaining about the increases on Twitter with ÖBB responding (in German):
e.g.

https://twitter.com/unsereOEBB/status/1734126277345309030

https://twitter.com/unsereOEBB/status/1734123774373478482

https://twitter.com/unsereOEBB/status/1734122986360246284

There also seems to be something strange going on with the NJ booking functionality on the NJ website - e.g. I booked Berlin to Brussels for 23rd Feb last week and now there is no ticket availability on that route for any date in Jan, Feb or March, for any type of seating or sleeping ticket (they can't all be sold out!).

get the impression that after those tweets that the social media team was told not to engage with the discussion
latest tweet about the berlin-paris service is full of comments about the price hike and nothing about the new service

 

[Krokodil]

I literally compiled a table comparing that in the post above the one you quoted and that poster sneeringly dismissed.

It didn't have the differentials calculated and I didn't have time to do it. I do now.

Upgrading from a seat to a couchette will cost a normal passenger €45 or €55. A passholder €31 or €40

To a sleeper €120 or €135 for a normal passenger, €90 or €94 for a passholder.

Still a pretty good deal if you ask me, particularly for couchette berths which ought to be the default choice for the Interrail target market.

 

[rvdborgt]

Still a pretty good deal if you ask me, particularly for couchette berths which ought to be the default choice for the Interrail target market.

Long gone are the days of that default choice. Especially since adult and senior passes have been available for a few decades now.

 

[nwales58]

I would give credit to ÖBB's commercial people, now they have built serious demand for the product, exploring yield maximisation. The higher they get above break even the more they can justify buying new stock. We then benefit from more capacity, more routes and prices stabilising at some equilibrium.

There is no social reason for the Austrian taxpayer to subsidise Nightjet.

Minimising CO2 points to day trains packed as full as possible (every mode of transport is most efficient if you fill it, obviously) and hotels, so no argument for subsidising sleeper trains over western European distances.

On cost alone, a 180-210 seat aircraft doing 6-8 sectors a day will be cheaper until aviation has to pay in full for its externalities. Rail wins when you can fit 400-500 people into a 200m train, preferably doubled and whizz along HSLs.

 

[railfan99]

Long gone are the days of that default choice. Especially since adult and senior passes have been available for a few decades now.

Could you elaborate please? I must be missing something, as I don't comprehend.

 

[Austriantrain]

Easier (and likely cheaper) for operators to run whole trains without shuffling I expect. More convenient for passengers to run every night to every destination.

The fact that they don’t run all services daily is down to lacking stock. That should change during 2024.

And the switching around during the night actually *was* the cheap option. They did not originally think they had the demand for longer trains, and running short trains on their own is more expensive than combining them.

Even now, there is strong seasonality for instance on the Italy routes so I am not sure that running every train load 12 or 14 all year round would be economical, even if they had the stock. And keeping stock in reserve to double trains in season is even less so.

 

[rvdborgt]

Could you elaborate please? I must be missing something, as I don't comprehend.

I think it's a misconception that "couchette berths ought to be the default choice for the Interrail target market". That may be the case for young people but it's certainly not the case for others.

 

[Watershed]

I think it's a misconception that "couchette berths ought to be the default choice for the Interrail target market". That may be the case for young people but it's certainly not the case for others.

And the key point here is that adults and indeed seniors are an increasing market for Interrail passes - particularly with more people wanting to avoid flying.

 

[railfan99]

And the key point here is that adults and indeed seniors are an increasing market for Interrail passes - particularly with more people wanting to avoid flying.

Not wanting to go OT, but apart from a statistic (a few years old) that c.600,000 Eurailpasses (including Interails?) were sold each year, do the European rail administrations/coordinating body ever publish how many of each were sold in a financial or calendar year?

There are many different passes, but even a total figure would be helpful.

 

[rg177]

I recall getting a single en-suite cabin from Wien - Venezia S.L for 144EUR with Interrail back in January 2020. Have we now seriously gone to the extreme of 694EUR?

I'm aware that things have changed - certainly, we've had a pandemic in between - but as others say, this removes NightJet as an affordable option for many.

Yet, I'm sure the trains will continue to fill - the target market is evidently just a little different.

 

[SeanG]

I recall getting a single en-suite cabin from Wien - Venezia S.L for 144EUR with Interrail back in January 2020. Have we now seriously gone to the extreme of 694EUR?

I'm aware that things have changed - certainly, we've had a pandemic in between - but as others say, this removes NightJet as an affordable option for many.

Yet, I'm sure the trains will continue to fill - the target market is evidently just a little different.

It was roughly that price in October so this is a massive jump.

Interesting to read Man@Seat61 on Twitter/X - basically setting out that he thinks that this is a move by OBB to test the waters and that it may not actually work out

 

[Krokodil]

I think it's a misconception that "couchette berths ought to be the default choice for the Interrail target market". That may be the case for young people but it's certainly not the case for others.

The traditional target market for Interrail was young adults. Even to this day they get cheaper passes. That the market has widened doesn't change that. No matter what age though, the target market is travellers on a budget who are therefore more likely to want cheaper accomodation. Incidentally my experience of couchettes is that they are used by all age groups, older people in Europe aren't as reluctant to share as Brits.

 

[rvdborgt]

The traditional target market for Interrail was young adults. Even to this day they get cheaper passes. That the market has widened doesn't change that. No matter what age though, the target market is travellers on a budget

Do you mean that Interrail is primarily used by travellers on a budget? If so, then that is also a misconception IMO. Even more so for Eurail travellers, who book the same pass reservations.

 

[Nunners]

Do you mean that Interrail is primarily used by travellers on a budget? If so, then that is also a misconception IMO. Even more so for Eurail travellers, who book the same pass reservations.

In my experience, the "target audience" of young travellers on a budget will opt for a hostel and a day train, especially British people who typically have never used a sleeper train before, and so the option just doesn't occur to them.

Even at the previous prices of around 34EUR for a couchette, it was more expensive than a hostel in all but the most expensive areas.

 

[Austriantrain]

A justification from ÖBB, as quoted by the Austrian Newspaper "Der Standard": https://www.derstandard.at/story/30...bb-preise-fuer-nachtzuege-stark-angehoben-hat

(Translation by deepl)

ÖBB commented on its approach in a statement: The railway has been using a dynamic pricing system for night services for many years. "In future, however, we will be offering a wider range of prices in order to be able to respond better to customer demand. There will be prices that are cheaper and lower than the old prices, as well as prices that are higher. At the time of the timetable change, the prices shown in the system shot up at short notice due to a large number of price queries. Over the next few days, the system will recalibrate the prices and we can expect to see significantly cheaper offers again."

Connections with very low capacity utilisation would receive a higher contingent of tickets in lower price categories. ÖBB continues: "Those connections in the high season or on the most frequently used travel days will generally be more expensive, as our customers' willingness to pay for these journeys is also significantly higher."

 

[mad_rich]

At the time of the timetable change, the prices shown in the system shot up at short notice due to a large number of price queries. Over the next few days, the system will recalibrate the prices and we can expect to see significantly cheaper offers again."

Does that translates as 'somebody from revenue management and somebody from PR has been invited to a meeting without tea and biscuits'?