Nightjet, which stock?

[Blindtraveler]

Hey all, reaching out to those in the know and or who more closely follow such things,

Contemplating a Brussels, Vienna return trip mid or late September and wondering which rolling stock is likely to operate then? I know that a couple of the new semens sets are in traffic now but not well acquainted with the expected rollout program for these and also on which route they are likely to be deployed and which routes will continue to use the refurbished classic stock


Whilst I'm not hugely concerned from an enthusiast point of view I am curious as it may have a bearing on what type of accommodation I choose to travel in, if they are still using fully compartmentalized stock I might consider a seat but would not really want to do 14 hours in the new seated accommodation which is apparently comfortable but not nearly as relaxing or private as it wants was. If it's likely to be new stock I might consider one of the new sleeping pods but again what appreciate some advice and thoughts on these as not only am I as my username would suggest visually impaired but I'm also not exactly what you'd call slim and can't imagine that changing radically between now and early autumn so would a fat git find a sleeping pod uncomfortable? And if classics stock what sort of sleeping accommodation is best value, bear in mind that I don't particularly want to share a couchette compartment with a bunch of strangers



Cheers all

 

[SeanG]

vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2024 » DB NJ » NJ 40425

It is scheduled to be compartment stock according to vagonweb. If you booked two seats opposite each other in a compartment then you could put them both flat and create a sort of bed.
But for this length of journey I really would be looking to get a proper couchette or sleeper berth (albeit now expensive for solo occupancy)

 

[Blindtraveler]

Yes I was noticing that the price had rather rocketed, think they may have scored a bit of an own goal with the dynamic pricing there to be honest and potentially hands people back to the airlines which in my case is a nuisance as one of the advantages I lost when moving from northwest Edinburgh to the Medway towns was easy access to an airport

 

[30907]

Not sure when the changeover is planned - I don't think it's this autumn but you can check when booking opens: if mini-cabins are available, then it's a (complete) new set.

 

[Austriantrain]

Not sure when the changeover is planned - I don't think it's this autumn but you can check when booking opens: if mini-cabins are available, then it's a (complete) new set.

The new sets will not run to Brussels.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Out of genuine curiosity with enthusiast head now screwed back on, what was the motivation for the decision as to which destinations the new stock would serve?

 

[rvdborgt]

Out of genuine curiosity with enthusiast head now screwed back on, what was the motivation for the decision as to which destinations the new stock would serve?

They need to go to Italy because of (IIRC) fire regulations. All ÖBB's other rolling stock doesn't comply and are still running under a temporary exemption.
Homologation in France is a royal pain in the *rse, takes a long time and is thus very costly. That means ÖBB aren't going to do that and that also means that the new sets won't go to Brussels either.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks for that, makes an awful lot of sense and to be honest I'm not complaining too much, the French or Belgium service is the one I'm like the use if any of them from the UK so knowing that classic stock remains here for the foreseeable is good as it is decent quality despite its age and now means I can plan accordingly in terms of what I book if indeed anything, there is of course still a possibility that I might just fly although really don't want to do this as I'm not all that close to an airport and you've got the usual hassle of bags and the like. furthermore I really want to support this service so that it continues long-term into the future and ultimately does see investment

 

[popeter45]

They need to go to Italy because of (IIRC) fire regulations. All ÖBB's other rolling stock doesn't comply and are still running under a temporary exemption.
Homologation in France is a royal pain in the *rse, takes a long time and is thus very costly. That means ÖBB aren't going to do that and that also means that the new sets won't go to Brussels either.

Also vectrons are still not approved for France yet, still needs a loco swap at the boarder
As the current 185's they are having to use are 140km/h on a long 160km/h line a upgrade to vectrons could cut down the journey time quite a bit

 

[Blindtraveler]

Never realised it was so complex, but really very interesting

That higher speed loco upgrade if it ever happens we'll certainly make a difference

 

[StephenHunter]

Also vectrons are still not approved for France yet, still needs a loco swap at the boarder
As the current 185's they are having to use are 140km/h on a long 160km/h line a upgrade to vectrons could cut down the journey time quite a bit

You don't want it cut down too much as otherwise you get to the station too early.

 

[popeter45]

You don't want it cut down too much as otherwise you get to the station too early.

Paris to Vienna is already one of the earliest to depart/latest to arrive at 7pm and 10am so being able to speed that up would help make it alot more appealing

 

[StephenHunter]

Paris to Vienna is already one of the earliest to depart/latest to arrive at 7pm and 10am so being able to speed that up would help make it alot more appealing

True, you'd ideally want a 10pm to 8am run. Dinner before you board, breakfast before you arrive.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Can't say as I agree, I quite like the idea of an entire evening on the train as well as a not too rushed start in the morning. If anything for me they could slow it down a bit.

 

[30907]

Can't say as I agree, I quite like the idea of an entire evening on the train as well as a not too rushed start in the morning. If anything for me they could slow it down a bit.

With you on that (if there's food and drink, or the station has a supermarket - both apply to Brussels-Vienna), though 10am is a tad late even coming from the UK

 

[Blindtraveler]

Still quite happy with 10:00 a.m. myself, too many overnight ferry journeys that pretend to be a luxury cruise and then have the cheek to abandon you on a cold damp dockside at 6:30 in the morning when it's either peak rush hour or there's no public transport at all and you are there for this advantage. Such service does nothing to discourage people from flying where there's an alternative


Do those more familiar with the service, is it best to book direct or use somewhere like trainline? Trainline temps me for the simple reason that they accept PayPal but apart from the booking fee am I otherwise disadvantaging myself where I to do this and also what's the booking horizon for a September trip likely to be?

 

[SeanG]

I'd book with OBB either on their website or tyr nightjet website and would avoid Trainline like the plague.
You can pay OBB with debit/ credit card and can also view tickets in their app. However for a sleeper you should print them as you'll need to hand them to your attendant when you get on (and you'll get them back when you leave - it's so they know when you are getting off if they need to wake you etc)

 

[popeter45]

new NJ sets now running on the domestic Bergen-Graz route, says to me still having issues getting approval outside Austria and Germany
rather than Italy trains i suspect next routes to get the new stock will either be the either of the Zurich trains (as approval would allow more routes like Zurich-Berlin/Hamburg to switch too) or Graz-Berlin as the relation to CD's new comfotject stock should make approval quicker

 

[Austriantrain]

Vienna and Munich - Rome are now in the timetable for beginning of September 2024.

The sets *are* approved for Italy:
https://www.era.europa.eu/content/era-signs-first-authorisation-new-generation-sleeper-trains-substantial-step-reviving-night#:~:text=On%2024%20November%2C%20the%20European,for%20%C3%96BB's%20Nightjet%20sleeper%20service.

I suspect it’s the current lack of push-pull operations that makes Italy complicated, and/or general traction issues. Also, Bregenz only needs two sets instead of four for Rome.

 

[eastwestdivide]

the domestic Bergen-Graz

Bregenz-Graz?

 

[30907]

new NJ sets now running on the domestic Bergen-Graz route

Bregenz-Wien is the route (Graz is served from Zürich) - I wonder if there is also a PR issue with Vorarlberg (and Tirol?) politicians/press/public feeling neglected while these brand-new trains spend most of their time abroad?

Incidentally, with only 13 sets in the first batch, there aren't enough to turn over the whole Italy operation to them yet.

 

[popeter45]

Bregenz-Wien is the route (Graz is served from Zürich) - I wonder if there is also a PR issue with Vorarlberg (and Tirol?) politicians/press/public feeling neglected while these brand-new trains spend most of their time abroad?

Incidentally, with only 13 sets in the first batch, there aren't enough to turn over the whole Italy operation to them yet.

yea thanks for the correction, too much tab switching on vagonweb

also as far as im aware its the last to use Wien Hbf autozug facilties since they removed the car carry option from the Wien-Hamburg route?

 

[30907]

also as far as im aware its the last to use Wien Hbf autozug facilties since they removed the car carry option from the Wien-Hamburg route?

The last OeBB certainly, as the dated Livorno has gone AFAIK.

 

[Austriantrain]

Incidentally, with only 13 sets in the first batch, there aren't enough to turn over the whole Italy operation to them yet.

Originally, the 13 sets were meant for Italy only and it has never been explained why the plans changed. I suspect that with a very late running approval, it was felt to risky and time consuming to start running them to Italy - Germany is a much easier operating environment. Also, the Italians keep pushing back their fire-protection rules for existing stock so the pressure has eased.

Obviously, it would be hard now to withdraw the new sets from the Hamburg and Bregenz route, so full services to Italy will have to wait for the second delivery series. That should follow rather quickly though and I suppose by the end of 2025, Italy should be fully served by the new sets (although plans can change again of course, as they did already!).

The last OeBB certainly, as the dated Livorno has gone AFAIK.

Split uses it (it is, of course, an ÖBB train within Austria).

Otherwise it’s now a useful stabling place for day trains.

 

[popeter45]

Originally, the 13 sets were meant for Italy only and it has never been explained why the plans changed. I suspect that with a very late running approval, it was felt to risky and time consuming to start running them to Italy - Germany is a much easier operating environment. Also, the Italians keep pushing back their fire-protection rules for existing stock so the pressure has eased.

Obviously, it would be hard now to withdraw the new sets from the Hamburg and Bregenz route, so full services to Italy will have to wait for the second delivery series. That should follow rather quickly though and I suppose by the end of 2025, Italy should be fully served by the new sets (although plans can change again of course, as they did already!).

so looking at the numbers
Hamburg-Wien/Innsbruck: 4 Sets
Bergenz-Wien : 2 Sets
Rome-Wien/Munich: 4 Sets

thats 10 Sets allocated, either 3 Spare sets or 1 more route and 1 Spare set

 

[30907]

so looking at the numbers
Hamburg-Wien/Innsbruck: 4 Sets
Bergenz-Wien : 2 Sets
Rome-Wien/Munich: 4 Sets

thats 10 Sets allocated, either 3 Spare sets or 1 more route and 1 Spare set

Venezia and Milano/La Spezia each require 4 sets; it will be interesting to see which gets prioritised (Wien-Venezia?).
Then there's the Amsterdam-Austria, another 4 sets, before we start on the Zürich routes...

 

[popeter45]

Venezia and Milano/La Spezia each require 4 sets; it will be interesting to see which gets prioritised (Wien-Venezia?).
Then there's the Amsterdam-Austria, another 4 sets, before we start on the Zürich routes...

yea only 2 set route i can think of that isnt Paris/Belgium bound is Graz-Berlin so if they are wanting a final route before the second batch my money would be on that
batch 2 is 20 sets so could be
La Spezia- Wien/Munich: 4 sets
Amsterdam - Wien/Innsbruck: 4 Sets
Zurich - Wien/Graz: 4 sets
Venice- Wien/Stuttgart: 4 sets

thats 16 sets so 4 that can be deployed on Zurich to Berlin/Hamburg

 

[30907]

thats 16 sets so 4 that can be deployed on Zurich to Berlin/Hamburg

Which would be needed as they interwork Hamburg-Wien-Zürich and Berlin-Zürich-Graz. That only leaves 2 of 4 sets for Venezia, and diagramming 22 of 23 would be risky anyway.
My guess is that one or other of the Zürich routes will use existing stock until the DoStos have to be withdrawn.

 

[Austriantrain]

Which would be needed as they interwork Hamburg-Wien-Zürich and Berlin-Zürich-Graz. That only leaves 2 of 4 sets for Venezia, and diagramming 22 of 23 would be risky anyway.

There will be 33 sets (not 23), if I am not mistaken - first series of 13, second series of 20. Am I wrong?

 

[30907]

There will be 33 sets (not 23), if I am not mistaken - first series of 13, second series of 20. Am I wrong?

No, I was careless. Thanks for the correction.