No Horsham-Peterborough service Saturday 2nd March

[Nicholas Lewis]

Thameslink have a train crew shortage tomorro so HRH-PBO being reduced to a HRH- RDH service with a Southern service forward which will be a 4 car. Rather late advice and journey planners have both original and modified services showing currently. Im surmising this is related to current dispute in some way.

A shortage of train crew means that Thameslink are unable to run any direct services between Horsham and Peterborough tomorrow, Saturday 2 March.

https://www.thameslinkrailway.com/t...e-updates#INC9FCD51FB7AEF4CA9AC21A4BD4AD2A31D

 

[whoosh]

There is no industrial action, official or unofficial.

From the Thameslink website page you linked:

Can you tell me more about the incident?

Engineering work is taking place all day on Saturday closing some lines between London Blackfriars and East Croydon, in turn, affecting the usual route Thameslink drivers use to run the Horsham to Peterborough services. Crew unavailability means the diversionary route cannot be used, therefore a temporary split service has been implemented for the day.

I think all of Horsham depot sign the main route, but I don't know how many sign the diversion via Streatham and Herne Hill.
Not everyone at Peterborough depot signs the main route yet apparently (still!), and I think a significant number of those that do, don't sign the diversion.
That would mean that not everyone who was available as a normal working day could be used effectively, and nor could everyone available for Rest Day Work be used either.

The result is a deficit of drivers with the required route knowledge for that day.

 

[Bikeman78]

There is no industrial action, official or unofficial.

From the Thameslink website page you linked:



I think all of Horsham depot sign the main route, but I don't know how many sign the diversion via Streatham and Herne Hill.
Not everyone at Peterborough depot signs the main route yet apparently (still!), and I think a significant number of those that do, don't sign the diversion.
That would mean that not everyone who was available as a normal working day could be used effectively, and nor could everyone available for Rest Day Work be used either.

The result is a deficit of drivers with the required route knowledge for that day.

It's slightly surprising that the scale of the problem only came to light 24 hours before. RTT shows a train every half hour from Horsham to Peterborough via the diversion. The website says they are hoping to run as far as Redhill at least once every two hours. That's quite a difference. How many Horsham driver turns are there on a typical day?

The only service north of Redhill is the half hourly four car from Reigate, rather than the usual six trains per hour. What could possibly go wrong!

 

[Taunton]

For years Thameslink went round through Herne Hill, all through the London Bridge rebuild. especially at evenings/weekends. Has everyone from then retired?

 

[D365]

So what service will the Peterborough route be getting?

 

[JonathanH]

So what service will the Peterborough route be getting?

Hourly from Peterborough to Stevenage

From Peterborough, Thameslink services will run to and from Stevenage every hour. You'll need to change at Stevenage for alternative Great Northern services into London, running once an hour.

For years Thameslink went round through Herne Hill, all through the London Bridge rebuild. especially at evenings/weekends. Has everyone from then retired?

There weren't any trains from Peterborough to Horsham at that time. The last Horsham to Peterborough each evening goes that way though.

 

[Minstral25]

Yes passengers not getting their half hourly direct services from Horley, Salfords and Earlswood have to change at Redhill from their hourly 12-car shuttle to the itsy-bitsy 4 car Reigate service, plus will also have over 20 minute waits both ways because they didn't adjust the timings.

GTR not covering themselves in glory this weekend, and this comes after suddenly removing the post 9pm service last night with less than 10 hours notice, although I gather a few last minute buses were found.

Next weekend there will be plenty of services, they'll be called rail replacement buses!

 

[JonathanH]

Yes passengers not getting their half hourly direct services from Horley, Salfords and Earlswood have to change at Redhill from their hourly 12-car shuttle to the itsy-bitsy 4 car Reigate service, plus will also have over 20 minute waits both ways because they didn't adjust the timings.

Passengers at Horley, Salfords and Earlswood are actually directed to go via Gatwick by the information on the Thameslink website.

Still, at least there is the consolation of overnight services at Redhill in the early hours of Sunday, due to engineering work meaning buses between Gatwick and Redhil.

 

[Minstral25]

Passengers at Horley, Salfords and Earlswood are actually directed to go via Gatwick by the information on the Thameslink website.

Still, at least there is the consultation of overnight services at Redhill in the early hours of Sunday, due to engineering work meaning buses between Gatwick and Redhill.

That's been updated since I last looked at it, but then it has been changing regularly all day - it said nothing at 7am this morning. They are in a right mess.

RTT still shows Horsham to Peterborough running full length of service too.

 

[MikeWM]

You'd think they'd be able to run a bit more north of London than a once-an-hour shuttle between PBO and SVG, especially given the Cambridge side of Thameslink is already significantly thinned out to just 2 tph (rather than the usual 4), turning short at Royston, due to another weekend of Cambridge South works.

But then this is GTR, so I guess not.

 

[whoosh]

For years Thameslink went round through Herne Hill, all through the London Bridge rebuild. especially at evenings/weekends. Has everyone from then retired?

That was via Crystal Palace (not Streatham) and Herne Hill, and was before the Horsham to Peterborough services started, which when they did in May 2018 if you can recall, there were nowhere near enough drivers with route knowledge of the main route nevermind the diversionary.

This is basically the same situation. The majority (but not all) now know the main route, but not enough know the diversion.

You'd think they'd be able to run a bit more north of London than a once-an-hour shuttle between PBO and SVG, especially given the Cambridge side of Thameslink is already significantly thinned out to just 2 tph (rather than the usual 4), turning short at Royston, due to another weekend of Cambridge South works.

But then this is GTR, so I guess not.

I'm surprised it's not twice an hour to be honest. I think it has been in the past when there have been crew shortages and they've run a Stevenage to Peterborough shuttle.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

That was via Crystal Palace (not Streatham) and Herne Hill, and was before the Horsham to Peterborough services started, which when they did in May 2018 if you can recall, there were nowhere near enough drivers with route knowledge of the main route nevermind the diversionary.

This is basically the same situation. The majority (but not all) now know the main route, but not enough know the diversion.


I'm surprised it's not twice an hour to be honest. I think it has been in the past when there have been crew shortages and they've run a Stevenage to Peterborough shuttle.

Im sure your factually correct but those planning the train service dont appear to know this! The service should have been planned within these constraints from the outset.

 

[Bishopstone]

So, why was the fundamental problem only established on the afternoon of the previous day?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So, why was the fundamental problem only established on the afternoon of the previous day?

Precisely its very daming on GTR who can a pretty decent service but when things go awry they just fall apart.

 

[Javelin_55]

So, why was the fundamental problem only established on the afternoon of the previous day?

I believe all Horsham drivers are supposed to sign the diversion, so the planning team had no reason to think there was an issue. It's only when the diagrams are printed and issued the previous day and the booked drivers start phoning in one by one to say they don't have the route knowledge that Control realise the extent of the problem and - after exhausting all other options - cut their losses and cancel the service.

 

[Bishopstone]

I believe all Horsham drivers are supposed to sign the diversion, so the planning team had no reason to think there was an issue. It's only when the diagrams are printed and issued the previous day and the booked drivers start phoning in one by one to say they don't have the route knowledge that Control realise the extent of the problem and - after exhausting all other options - cut their losses and cancel the service.

I can only say this raises many more questions than it answers!

I’m also unclear why Thameslink can only operate the Horsham-Redhill shuttle once every two hours. This implies one train in service with long layovers - what are the rest of the Horsham drivers and trains doing?

Likewise on the GN side - an hourly Peterborough-Stevenage shuttle. Again, what are the rest of the drivers and trains doing? What is the reason this shuttle can’t be half-hourly?

The whole story is literally unbelievable, and consequently I don’t believe it.

(Not directed at you personally - I’m grateful for the info!)

 

[frediculous]

It's pathetic excuses from Thameslink once again. They want to encourage leisure travel but once again screw the Peterborough service with less than 24hours notice. I expect I'll be standing from Hitchin again. No wonder people don't use the trains. Bet there's no delay repay available either to have at least some compensation.

 

[Hadders]

This is an absolute disgrace.

From Stevenage there appears to only be one Thameslink train an hour towards London, and one semi-fast. There would normally be four Thameslink an hour and two semi-fasts.

 

[frediculous]

This is an absolute disgrace.

From Stevenage there appears to only be one Thameslink train an hour towards London, and one semi-fast. There would normally be four Thameslink an hour and two semi-fasts.

Yep, and with such short notice (there wasn't any signs at Sandy, even home made ones), people won't know and it will be a very busy unhappy service (far busier than a peak-time weekday service)

 

[Hadders]

Yep, and with such short notice (there wasn't any signs at Sandy, even home made ones), people won't know and it will be a very busy unhappy service (far busier than a peak-time weekday service)

Indeed! I'm vsiting London tomorrow and will now have to leave earlier than planned to ensure an on-time arrival. Had I not seen this on here tonight I'd be completely unaware. I passed through Stevenage station at 17:00 this evening and there was nothing about this at all.

Even with 12-car trains running so, few services is going to mean passengers get left behind. There must be more to this than engineering work in south London. GTR say they're having to turn trains at Stevenage because of it - why can't they turn at Kings Crossd? Why have they had to reduce the Thameslink trains from Royston to Brighton?

GTR should arrange for the hourly Royston to Kings Cross non-stop services to make an additional call at Stevenage and run these as 12-car services (there should be enough spare trains given how few services are running).

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I suspect the issue is here with them not going to King's Cross is that the control team are short staffed due to sickness so just don't have time to replan the service significantly. I could be wrong here though.

 

[Bishopstone]

I’m surprised they’re not putting Stevenage calls into the ‘Cambridge’ fasts, originating at Royston. Do the buses from Cambridge really fill these trains to capacity at Royston?

 

[dk1]

I’m surprised they’re not putting Stevenage calls into the ‘Cambridge’ fasts, originating at Royston. Do the buses from Cambridge really fill these trains to capacity at Royston?

But does that not have an impact on other ECML fast services?

 

[Hadders]

But does that not have an impact on other ECML fast services?

I’m sure they could do it if there was a will.

The 08:31 12 car train is standing room only at Stevenage so I dread to think what it’ll be like later.

Of course, there’s nothing at the station apologising for the reduction in service.

 

[dk1]

I’m sure they could do it if there was a will.

The 08:31 12 car train is standing room only at Stevenage so I dread to think what it’ll be like later.

Of course, there’s nothing at the station apologising for the reduction in service.

Hopefully lots of Cambridge punters will choose Tottenham Hale/Liverpool Street but doesn’t bode well if the 08:31 is already FAS.

 

[JonathanH]

Hopefully lots of Cambridge punters will choose Tottenham Hale/Liverpool Street but doesn’t bode well if the 08:31 is already FAS.

Also buses north of Audley End, and all 5-car today.

 

[dk1]

Also buses north of Audley End, and all 5-car today.

Probably not then

 

[Magdalia]

You'd think they'd be able to run a bit more north of London than a once-an-hour shuttle between PBO and SVG, especially given the Cambridge side of Thameslink is already significantly thinned out to just 2 tph (rather than the usual 4), turning short at Royston, due to another weekend of Cambridge South works.

Why have they had to reduce the Thameslink trains from Royston to Brighton?

I’m surprised they’re not putting Stevenage calls into the ‘Cambridge’ fasts, originating at Royston. Do the buses from Cambridge really fill these trains to capacity at Royston?

Royston is a significant constraint because it does not have a footbridge, unless the new bridge has been opened very recently.

All trains have to reverse in platform 2 because the rail replacement buses use the down side car park. The maximum capacity for that is 3tph so to/from Royston there is 1tph fast to Kings Cross, 1tph to Brighton and 1tph slow to Kings Cross.

The fast Kings Cross trains use the fast lines south of Hitchin so it is not possible to retime them with additional stops without disrupting the ECML timetable. Also extra stops would eat into the 9 minute turnround at Royston which is already very tight for unloading/loading passengers transferring to/from the rail replacement buses.

The trains that I'm surprised are not running are the Letchworth-Kings Cross slows. I can't see any reason why that is.

 

[Class 170101]

Probably driver related. I expect the planners have been told not to go above the LTP number of diagrams because rosters cannot cover straight additional diagrams.

 

[700720]

All trains have to reverse in platform 2 because the rail replacement buses use the down side car park

Trains do reverse at Platform 1 at Royston