No ticket acceptance and no rail replacement during long term engineering works at Ince?

[ainsworth74]

So Ince (Manchester) is due to close for a period of time to allow for electrification works from 2 June until later in 2024. This message appears on NRE:

Line Upgrade
No services will stop at this station from Sunday 2nd June until late 2024 due to electrification of the line.

No Rail Replacement buses will be in operation due to the frequency of the of local buses in the area and proximity of other stations such as Hindley, Wigan Wallgate and Wigan North Western.

Passengers with accessibility requirements are being advised to speak to station staff or contact Northern Passenger Assist team on 0800 138 5560

Ince (Manchester) Station | National Rail

Discover Ince (Manchester) railway station. Getting to & from, buying & collecting train tickets, staffing, facilities, accessibility, & mobility access.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

This feels a little dubious? Both Wigan stations aren't all that far away (though they're 20/30 minutes away on foot) and there maybe plenty of buses but as far as I can tell there's no arrangements being made for railway tickets to be accepted on bus services nor for Ince tickets to be used from either Wigan station?

Surely some sort of ticket acceptance should be required on local buses and/or acceptance of railway tickets from Ince at Wigan Stations/Hindley before you can just say "no replacement buses will be in operation"?

 

[Watershed]

Of course, this would be a non-issue if Greater Manchester had integrated zonal ticketing between trains and buses. To a degree, it does - which makes it all the harder to justify why Northern haven't bothered to arrange proper ticket acceptance.

 

[redreni]

Of course, this would be a non-issue if Greater Manchester had integrated zonal ticketing between trains and buses. To a degree, it does - which makes it all the harder to justify why Northern haven't bothered to arrange proper ticket acceptance.

To a very small degree, though?

Last time I went to Greater Manchester I bought a weekend "travelcard" but it was only valid on trams. There was a day ranger available but it wouldn't have been cheaper than buying separate tickets on different modes as far as I could tell. You'd have needed to make quite a few journeys in a day to make it worthwhile. Maybe it's different for regular commuters?

For a long-term closure like this, to suggest it's a reasonable alternative for somebody who would normally be able to reach their destination from Ince using only National Rail, to make a mixed-mode journey instead when there is no ticket acceptance in place, seems entirely inappropriate to me.

 

[TUC]

Of course, this would be a non-issue if Greater Manchester had integrated zonal ticketing between trains and buses.

That probably would only benefit those whose rail journey was entirely within GM. It doesn't solve it for those travelling to Ince from further afield.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For a long-term closure like this, to suggest it's a reasonable alternative for somebody who would normally be able to reach their destination from Ince using only National Rail, to make a mixed-mode journey instead when there is no ticket acceptance in place, seems entirely inappropriate to me.

While bus fares are only £2 few will actually care, and hardly anyone would use a RRB due to the way it would import unreliabiility into the journey (and to buffer that you'd need to add time into the journey which would probably exceed the time taken to walk to Wallgate). If Bletchley was closed for a period I would just go to MKC, and indeed I do when RRBs are on - and that's quite considerably further.

As long as provision is made for those who cannot use other modes, which it seems it is, I don't see this as a massive problem. Though perhaps a reasonably cheap mitigation would be to do a deal with a local taxi firm for a taxi on demand between the stations, which in practice would be demanded almost never.

 

[redreni]

While bus fares are only £2 few will actually care, and hardly anyone would use a RRB due to the way it would import unreliabiility into the journey (and to buffer that you'd need to add time into the journey which would probably exceed the time taken to walk to Wallgate). If Bletchley was closed for a period I would just go to MKC, and indeed I do when RRBs are on - and that's quite considerably further.

As long as provision is made for those who cannot use other modes, which it seems it is, I don't see this as a massive problem. Though perhaps a reasonably cheap mitigation would be to do a deal with a local taxi firm for a taxi on demand between the stations, which in practice would be demanded almost never.

When there are major problems on the Woolwich line, Southeastern and Thameslink negotiate ticket acceptance with London buses. So I've used my Slade Green rail tickets on the 89 or 99 bus to Barnehurst before. Could also have taken the 99 bus the other way towards Abbey Wood to connect with the Elizabeth Line (though that requires a change of bus).

I'm not sure why, in the supposed brave new world of publicly run buses in Manchester, this isn't an option here?

I do agree dedicated rail replacement buses are often underutilised and maybe unnecessary, especially when they duplicate sections of existing bus routes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given how few would use the facility, I'm indeed surprised acceptance isn't organised with Bee Network/TfGM. Maybe they asked for an unreasonable sum.

It would of course mostly be solved if Manchester (and London) had true integrated ticketing. Maybe one day...

 

[Bungle965]

When there are major problems on the Woolwich line, Southeastern and Thameslink negotiate ticket acceptance with London buses. So I've used my Slade Green rail tickets on the 89 or 99 bus to Barnehurst before. Could also have taken the 99 bus the other way to Abbey Wood to connect with the Elizabeth Line.

I'm not sure why, in the supposed brave new world of publicly run buses in Manchester, this isn't an option here?

I do agree dedicated rail replacement buses are often underutilised and maybe unnecessary, especially when they duplicate sections of existing bus routes.

There has been many occasions over the years where arranging ticket acceptance with the local bus operators is often the best solution, Northern however are particularly poor in arranging this.
Even so far as advertising the local bus operators as options on their JounreyCheck page but then stating that you will have to buy a ticket as your rail ticket will not be honoured.
No doubt if you complained you would have your ticket reimbursed but it really shouldn’t be that way.

However on a positive I did not when the usual Sunday train crew shortage demolished service on the Blackpool South line the other day they did get ticket acceptance with Blackpool Transport for both bus & tram so it does show that it is possible.

 

[ainsworth74]

While bus fares are only £2 few will actually care, and hardly anyone would use a RRB due to the way it would import unreliabiility into the journey (and to buffer that you'd need to add time into the journey which would probably exceed the time taken to walk to Wallgate). If Bletchley was closed for a period I would just go to MKC, and indeed I do when RRBs are on - and that's quite considerably further.

I don't think there's a problem that they haven't provided a RRB, but I do think it's very poor that no provision has been made for ticket acceptance on local buses and people are just expected to pay for bus travel separately.

 

[redreni]

I don't think there's a problem that they haven't provided a RRB, but I do think it's very poor that no provision has been made for ticket acceptance on local buses and people are just expected to pay for bus travel separately.

Quite. If the fares aren't a big deal, let Northern cover them.

 

[yorksrob]

While bus fares are only £2 few will actually care, and hardly anyone would use a RRB due to the way it would import unreliabiility into the journey (and to buffer that you'd need to add time into the journey which would probably exceed the time taken to walk to Wallgate). If Bletchley was closed for a period I would just go to MKC, and indeed I do when RRBs are on - and that's quite considerably further.

As long as provision is made for those who cannot use other modes, which it seems it is, I don't see this as a massive problem. Though perhaps a reasonably cheap mitigation would be to do a deal with a local taxi firm for a taxi on demand between the stations, which in practice would be demanded almost never.

If I had to pay an extra four quid (for a return) because the railway couldn't be bothered to arrange ticket acceptance, I'd be livid.

No doubt all this is egged on by the DfT as a financial saving.

 

[TUC]

While bus fares are only £2 few will actually care, and hardly anyone would use a RRB due to the way it would import unreliabiility into the journey (and to buffer that you'd need to add time into the journey which would probably exceed the time taken to walk to Wallgate). If Bletchley was closed for a period I would just go to MKC, and indeed I do when RRBs are on - and that's quite considerably further.

As long as provision is made for those who cannot use other modes, which it seems it is, I don't see this as a massive problem. Though perhaps a reasonably cheap mitigation would be to do a deal with a local taxi firm for a taxi on demand between the stations, which in practice would be demanded almost never.

If you're on a low income, a extra £4 cost (total for both directions) matters a lot.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you're on a low income, a extra £4 cost (total for both directions) matters a lot.

People making local journeys for whom that's significant will likely just switch to bus into Wigan instead (less likely people on low incomes will be commuting as far as Manchester).

 

[TUC]

People making local journeys for whom that's significant will likely just switch to bus into Wigan instead (less likely people on low incomes will be commuting as far as Manchester).

That's a very limited view of people on low incomes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's a very limited view of people on low incomes.

I wouldn't say it was. People on minimum wage tend to work very locally because a commute of any distance would wipe most of it out very quickly, and minimum wage jobs exist in most towns. And pensioners/people too disabled to work generally get free bus passes anyway so the bus will cost them nowt.

I do think they should negotiate acceptance with Bee Network or provide a taxi on demand which will almost never actually be demanded, but I don't think this will be a serious problem for very many people. Ince is relatively poorly used anyway - 23K against 200K at Hindley.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I do think they should negotiate acceptance with Bee Network or provide a taxi on demand which will almost never actually be demanded provided.

Corrected that for you.

 

[Deerfold]

I wouldn't say it was. People on minimum wage tend to work very locally because a commute of any distance would wipe most of it out very quickly, and minimum wage jobs exist in most towns. And pensioners/people too disabled to work generally get free bus passes anyway so the bus will cost them nowt.

I do think they should negotiate acceptance with Bee Network or provide a taxi on demand which will almost never actually be demanded, but I don't think this will be a serious problem for very many people. Ince is relatively poorly used anyway - 23K against 200K at Hindley.

People on minimum wage tend to work somewhere they can get to cheaply. That may or may not be local - in GM there's little difference in fares for multiple buses compared to one bus each way once you're getting a season ticket - a 7 day season is £1 more than paying £2 on 1 bus a day each way for a week.