No working toilet on the train.

[MichaelTrains]

Imagine my shock horror last night that the last Northern train of the day to Bradford had no working toilet on it.

Is this acceptable? Especially when it’s a two-hour journey?

At least one person ended up urinating on the train by the seats that are supposed to carry the cycle rack.

I guess if you've got to go you've got to go but why wasn't this train taken out of service?

I know it's the last train of the night but surely things can't be that bad at Northern that there's no working toilet.

 

[transportphoto]

I know it's the last train of the night but surely things can't be that bad at Northern that there's no working toilet.

I’ve lots of questions here, I’ll start with two:

• Why were the toilets locked out. Were they broken, out of water, blocked, or perhaps soiled beyond reasonable use?
• Would you rather a train with no toilets, or no train at all?

 

[kacper]

why wasn't this train taken out of service?

Surely running the last service is more important than having toilets available on it?

 

[skyhigh]

Especially when it’s a two-hour journey?

Where from?

 

[yorksrob]

Also, was there only one toilet on the train ?

 

[transportphoto]

It wasn’t too long ago you posed this question:

Are Northern that short of units that they must continuously short-form busy services?

The answer at the time was a resounding “Yes” from a couple of fellow forum members. This would perhaps answer why the train wasn’t taken out of service, there may have been no spares!

 

[Wolfie]

Imagine my shock horror last night that the last Northern train of the day to Bradford had no working toilet on it.

Is this acceptable? Especially when it’s a two-hour journey?

At least one person ended up urinating on the train by the seats that are supposed to carry the cycle rack.

I guess if you've got to go you've got to go but why wasn't this train taken out of service?

I know it's the last train of the night but surely things can't be that bad at Northern that there's no working toilet.

Nothing new..... I've been on then London Midland services from Euston to Birmingham in the middle of the day with no working toilets.

Better to run a train with no working toilets than no train at all.

 

[trainophile]

I thought they usually arranged for comfort stops at a suitable station when this situation arises. Perhaps there were no stations still open at that time of night?

 

[driverd]

Imagine my shock horror last night that the last Northern train of the day to Bradford had no working toilet on it.

I wouldn't be too shocked, it's a common occurance across numerous operators.

Is this acceptable? Especially when it’s a two-hour journey?

Where were you travelling from to give a two hour journey to Bradford? It'll somewhat help with answering this one - I'm guessing either Blackpool or Chester?

At least one person ended up urinating on the train by the seats that are supposed to carry the cycle rack.

Unfortunately all too common - was the guard visible at all?

I guess if you've got to go you've got to go but why wasn't this train taken out of service?

As others have said, likely no other trains but knowing where your train was from would help give you an answer as to why.

I know it's the last train of the night but surely things can't be that bad at Northern that there's no working toilet.

It's not so much that things are "that bad" - it's a reasonably common situation across many operators and there's a policy for operations as such. I suspect the guard may have been the weak link in this instance - were they announcing the option of toilet stops and patrolling the train asking if anyone required these?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Where were you travelling from to give a two hour journey to Bradford? It'll somewhat help with answering this one - I'm guessing either Blackpool or Chester?

If we're talking about Bradford Interchange, rather than Bradford Forster Square, then the 2202 from Blackpool North (for Leeds via Blackburn) arrived into Bradford Interchange at or around 2345 last night. Three car class 195 unit. Might this possibly have been the train?

 

[skyhigh]

If we're talking about Bradford Interchange, rather than Bradford Forster Square, then the 2202 from Blackpool North (for Leeds via Blackburn) arrived into Bradford Interchange at or around 2345 last night. Three car class 195 unit. Might this possibly have been the train?

Or it could have been the ex-Chester behind it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Or it could have been the ex-Chester behind it.

Yes, indeed. 2228 ex Chester. Arrived Bradford Interchange at or around 0024.

Was that formed of 2 x 2 car Class 195 units?

 

[MichaelTrains]

Where from?

I’ve lots of questions here, I’ll start with two:

• Why were the toilets locked out. Were they broken, out of water, blocked, or perhaps soiled beyond reasonable use?
• Would you rather a train with no toilets, or no train at all?

It was a class 195 unit so only one toilet and it said the toilet was out of service.

There were no ticket checks on the train and it was only when I got to Bradford and approached the driver and conductor, that they said they didn't know it was out of service.

The driver said if he had known there were no toilets it should have been taken out of service.

I've made Northern aware of this incident and they have been extremely helpful in providing me with why this happened.

Apparently what should have happened is the train should have been made to wait at a train station on route with announcements made for passengers needing the toilet.

Especially when considering the length of the journey involved.

Luckily I was able to hold it in but obviously, the person who urinated on the train couldn't wait.

 

[yorksrob]

There are too many trains built with only one toilet. One for three carriages is particularly ludicrous.

One wonders who produces the specifications. Not a regular train passenger seemingly.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Where from?


It was a class 195 unit so only one toilet and it said the toilet was out of service.

There were no ticket checks on the train and it was only when I got to Bradford and approached the driver and conductor, that they said they didn't know it was out of service.

The driver said if he had known there were no toilets it should have been taken out of service.

I've made Northern aware of this incident and they have been extremely helpful in providing me with why this happened.

Apparently what should have happened is the train should have been made to wait at a train station on route with announcements made for passengers needing the toilet.

Especially when considering the length of the journey involved.

Luckily I was able to hold it in but obviously, the person who urinated on the train couldn't wait.

And this is yet another reason why Northern's class 195s are worse than the trains they've replaced. Most Northern 158s had two toilets so at least if one were out of use there was another one available (unless you were very unlucky!).

 

[TUC]

What would help is announcements at each station before the train artives that there is no toilet, so people can either seek one out before boarding and/or decide not to travel. Surely it must be possible to have an automated announcement available to play once Control is notified about the problem?

 

[TheSmiths82]

This is an issue on the 195's as there isn't enough toilets. I was on one a few years ago going to a festival in Blackpool, as a result some beers were involved only to discover there was no toilet. We told the guard and he said he will watch us get off at Preston, onto the next set which did have a working toilet. The result one working toilet for a 6 carriage train which was going to a punk rock festival in Blackpool! I assume if there was no toilet at at all we would have had to get off at Preston and wait for another train.

One of the reasons I use trains over coaches is because I always need the toilet, but I am always a bit nervous on Northern services that this may not be the case so I don't drink anything before just in case.

What would help is announcements at each station before the train artives that there is no toilet, so people can either seek one out before boarding and/or decide not to travel. Surely it must be possible to have an automated announcement available to play once Control is notified about the problem?

It seems in this case none of the train staff even knew the toilet was out of action Surely the driver's information panel will show the fault though?

 

[transportphoto]

Surely the driver's information panel will show the fault though?

The more obvious solution is the guard walking through the train which (reportedly) didn’t happen. Though I do feel as if the OP has answered their own question here.

I guess if you've got to go you've got to go but why wasn't this train taken out of service?

There were no ticket checks on the train and it was only when I got to Bradford and approached the driver and conductor, that they said they didn't know it was out of service.

 

[MichaelTrains]

The more obvious solution is the guard walking through the train which (reportedly) didn’t happen. Though I do feel as if the OP has answered their own question here.

I was lucky that I only really needed to go halfway through the journey and once past Hebden Bridge, I knew we were 30 minutes away from Bradford.

I have to confess to urinating at Bradford Interchange against the flowers on platform 3/4 because there is no toilet at the Interchange currently.

I’m glad the sole Northern gatestaff member turned a blind eye but I thought it was better on the plants than on the train itself.

 

[trainophile]

They probably get used to it if there's no station facilities. In this day and age though you'd expect a major interchange (heck it's even in the name) to have the luxury of a public convenience, even if only a disabled one with a radar key available from the ticket desk, or better still left unlocked.

 

[MichaelTrains]

They probably get used to it if there's no station facilities. In this day and age though you'd expect a major interchange (heck it's even in the name) to have the luxury of a public convenience, even if only a disabled one with a radar key available from the ticket desk, or better still left unlocked.

I’m told that the Interchange will remain closed until at least Easter, so why haven't Northern or Metro or First provided toilets for customers?

Especially if like last night, the train doesn't have a working toilet?

It's all rather damming and I’ll normally defend the railways.

 

[mike57]

On one occasion on a TPE service where both toilets were out of order the guard arranged a 'toilet stop' at Leeds, which he announced. He then stood by the front of the train obviously noting those off the train who went to use the facilities, finally going into the gents and I assume calling out, and asked a female member of platform staff who was on hand to do the same with the ladies, obviously shouting out something along the lines of "we are about to depart". Maybe beyond what he had to do, but common sense prevailed.

Lack of working toilets on 1hr plus journeys where toilets are normally available is going to cause a problem, and for some people its going to reach a point where 'something has to give'. In that situation most people will try and avoid soiling themselves, but someone else will likely have to clear the result. Its not nice, and I feel sorry for the staff that have to deal with it, but the current obsession with doing everything on the cheap means that new rolling stock is underspecified. I suspect the problem is made worse by the controlled emission toilets, which have more failure modes than the old style, I am not suggesting going back over that, but it needs to be allowed for in design and on Cl 195s is not, one toilet is not enough.

 

[bleeder4]

I agree that the train should have been taken out of service, but I just find it curious that people don't make the same uproar over no toilets on buses or coaches. I did a 90 minute bus journey the other day - no toilets on the bus. Even toilets on long distance coaches such as National Express and Megabus are a relatively recent phenomenon. When I was growing up my parents would often take me off on a day trip organised by a local coach company and there was no toilet on the coach - it was unheard of back then for a road coach to have a toilet. So of all the forms of public transport operated in this country, it is only trains that get all the criticism over no toilets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's a very, very big difference between a mode that says it has a toilet then doesn't and a mode that doesn't claim to have one.

 

[yorksrob]

I agree that the train should have been taken out of service, but I just find it curious that people don't make the same uproar over no toilets on buses or coaches. I did a 90 minute bus journey the other day - no toilets on the bus. Even toilets on long distance coaches such as National Express and Megabus are a relatively recent phenomenon. When I was growing up my parents would often take me off on a day trip organised by a local coach company and there was no toilet on the coach - it was unheard of back then for a road coach to have a toilet. So of all the forms of public transport operated in this country, it is only trains that get all the criticism over no toilets.

That's one of the reasons I avoid 90 minute bus journeys

 

[Starmill]

I’ve lots of questions here, I’ll start with two:

• Why were the toilets locked out. Were they broken, out of water, blocked, or perhaps soiled beyond reasonable use?
• Would you rather a train with no toilets, or no train at all?

Given urine can't really be cleaned out of carpets very effectively, you could argue that no train at all is better than a train which says it has toilets but actually doesn't on that journey.

They probably get used to it if there's no station facilities. In this day and age though you'd expect a major interchange (heck it's even in the name) to have the luxury of a public convenience, even if only a disabled one with a radar key available from the ticket desk, or better still left unlocked.

There are toilets at Bradford Interchange, but they're currently locked out of use as part of the issues that have been found with the building. They may be out of use for some time as the car park and bus interchange are completely closed to the public.

 

[yorksrob]

As I've mentioned on other threads, modern trains are modular now, so it should be easy to retrofit toilet no 2 (for want of a better phrase).

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Nothing new..... I've been on then London Midland services from Euston to Birmingham in the middle of the day with no working toilets.

Better to run a train with no working toilets than no train at all.

A proactive guard will arrange toilet stops. I always make sure to do one when control refuse to swap a unit out. I don't find it at all acceptable to how zero toilets no matter how long the service is

 

[Bletchleyite]

Emergency toilet bags exist. Each train should perhaps have a stock of them which could be used in the toilet cubicle in emergency even if it had failed.

 

[skyhigh]

As I've mentioned on other threads, modern trains are modular now, so it should be easy to retrofit toilet no 2 (for want of a better phrase).

And as I wrote on your other thread, particularly relevant to 195s -

Just to add - 2 car 195s only have one compressor, which is fitted on the non-toilet vehicle. This occupies the space below solebar that is taken up with the retention tank and other associated gubbins on the toilet vehicle.

3 car 195s have 2 compressors, one on each non-toilet vehicle.

There is very little space for the equipment needed for a second toilet without a significant redesign.

You can't just fit a second toilet to a 195 without fairly major modifications.