North Woolwich branch questions

[thenorthern]

Just some questions about the former North London Line branch to North Woolwich that was operated by Silverlink.

Why was the branch closed in 2006?

Also I gather some of the former branch will be used for Crossrail but how much?

 

[JN114]

Just some questions about the former North London Line branch to North Woolwich that was operated by Silverlink.

Why was the branch closed in 2006?

Also I gather some of the former branch will be used for Crossrail but how Much?

Was closed to permit the Stratford International Extension of the DLR; which uses elements of the North Woolwich alignment.

The Connaught Tunnels; between former Custom House and North Woolwich stations have been repurposed for Crossrail.

 

[thenorthern]

Am I right in thinking from Canning Town to Stratford is the part now used by DLR?

 

[313103]

Am I right in thinking from Canning Town to Stratford is the part now used by DLR?

Yes it is, in fact right up to more or less Channelsea Junction.

 

[thenorthern]

Looking at the usage figures for Custom House and North Woolwich they are quite low for a London station.

Its strange though as well that in those days Silverlink was both an inner London and semi-fast west coast main line operator.

 

[NSEFAN]

Having rode on the NLL from Richmond to North Woolwich shortly before it closed, it really was a dire service and has completely transformed under the Overground system. Converting it to DLR and re-using part of the route for Crossrail has been a much better use of the land, I think.

 

[John Webb]

By 2006 the DLR branch to Woolwich Arsenal station on the south side of the river had been constructed. This ran from Canning Town along the line of the 'Silvertown Tramway' - the original route to North Woolwich - but on an elevated track. At Silvertown it turned away to cross the Custom House - Silvertown section of the North Woolwich line to serve the City airport, and then ran parallel to it but several hundred yards northwards until after King George V station it went into the tunnel to take it under the river.
With this alternative route available, Crossrail decided to use the line through the Connaught tunnel for their branch to Abbey Wood. The line passes through the site of Silvertown station until about halfway between there and North Woolwich station it dives into the tunnel that takes it under the river to Woolwich and Abbey Wood.
View of Silvertown station soon after Crossrail work started 5 years ago - the one platform left is still visible (Click on the pictures to go to the larger originals):
Former Silvertown Station

© Copyright Thomas Nugent and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
Another view two years ago:
Silvertown railway station (site), Greater London

© Copyright Nigel Thompson and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
This is a view from near North Woolwich station the year after the line closed:
North Woolwich: Railway line to Silvertown

© Copyright Nigel Cox and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
The Crossrail tunnel under the Thames starts a few hundred yards up the line from the photographer, who was standing on a footbridge linking the roads each side of the railway line.

(I lived in Woolwich and in my trainspotting years frequently crossed the Thames on the then steamed-powered Woolwich Ferry to catch a train to Stratford to see the ER locos on the Liverpool Street line. And I commuted along the line for two years for my first job at Plesseys in Ilford in the late 1960s!)
John Webb

 

[Mikey C]

The DLR route to King George V opened at the end of 2005, and provided a much better and more reliable service than the former North Woolwich line so this was the real replacement.

The Overground was then diverted to high level platforms at Stratford so that the former low level platforms could be used by a new DLR service to Stratford International which used some of the existing trackbed

 

[swt_passenger]

I think the decision to route Crossrail through the Connaught tunnel pre-dates the DLR new branch to King George. In other words the Crossrail branch came first and DLR fitted in around the land take that Crossrail expected to use.

 

[thenorthern]

The half hourly service between Stratford and North Woolwich was probably the most infrequent service that only ran within Greater London.

 

[Mikey C]

The half hourly service between Stratford and North Woolwich was probably the most infrequent service that only ran within Greater London.

The GOBLIN frequency was equally poor before TfL took over

 

[CatfordCat]

The half hourly service between Stratford and North Woolwich was probably the most infrequent service that only ran within Greater London.

I think the Clapham Junction - Kensington Olympia shuttle (think it got as low as two peak hour trains per day in each direction) beats that!

As for the original question, Disused Stations website has a bit about North Woolwich station and the line, although the text seems to date from soon after the station closed.

 

[thenorthern]

https://web.archive.org/web/2007092...ad/stratfordnothwoolich/closuresilvertown.pdf

Here is a closure notice I have found, I checked the GOBIN was also half hourly as well in the Silverlink days.

 

[greatkingrat]

The GOBLIN frequency was equally poor before TfL took over

And the Greenford branch is still only half hourly.

 

[Busaholic]

The half hourly service between Stratford and North Woolwich was probably the most infrequent service that only ran within Greater London.

Loads of candidates, some operating from central London termini e.g. South London Line, Orpington to Victoria, Tattenham Corner etc.

 

[John Webb]

There is more on Silvertown station at http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/silvertown/ with photos of the station in use and after closure. Links are available to other stations on this line.

John Webb

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The half hourly service between Stratford and North Woolwich was probably the most infrequent service that only ran within Greater London.

This was done to give 4 tph Stratford to Richmond .......loadings to and from North Woolwich were very low (unsurprisingly) - not enough 313's or crews availalable at the time.

 

[Busaholic]

This was done to give 4 tph Stratford to Richmond .......loadings to and from North Woolwich were very low (unsurprisingly) - not enough 313's or crews availalable at the time.

There was an excellent bus service too, not subject to the delays that could be experienced going the 'other way' out of North Woolwich in the Beckton direction. I must have been to North Woolwich dozens of times over the years 1959 to the mid-eighties and cannot recall an occasion when there was not at least one bus on the 69 to Silvertown, Canning Town and Stratford waiting on stand. One of the most reliable bus services in London in those days imo, and, being an ex-trolleybus route, the stops were quite close together because of the marvellous acceleration of trolleybuses, probably never better than on Silvertown Way.

 

[satisnek]

The only problem since 2006 is that to get from the Woolwich ferry to the train it's now necessary to walk through what is presumably North Woolwich itself, with rival scum gangs throwing things at each other. No, I'm not making this up. Mind you, that was not long after the line closed. Perhaps the area has since been gentrified?

 

[Busaholic]

The only problem since 2006 is that to get from the Woolwich ferry to the train it's now necessary to walk through what is presumably North Woolwich itself, with rival scum gangs throwing things at each other. No, I'm not making this up. Mind you, that was not long after the line closed. Perhaps the area has since been gentrified?

My last passage on the Woolwich Ferry was on 1984, and I felt intimidated by a group of youths. On leaving the ferry on the north side, I stayed well behind the group, only to see one of them punching an elderly Bangladeshi man who passed them full in the face. I tried to help him but he was being stoical, obviously being used to this level of hostility. I've not been in the area for thirty years, so don't know about gentrification, but I'd doubt it.

 

[djpontrack]

I did the line to North Woolwich the day before it closed and it was very rundown and uncared for. The ticket office was open at North Woolwich so I purchased a priv single to Silvertown as a souvenir even though I had a travelcard.
I then walked through the tunnel to Woolwich which was something different for me.

 

[thenorthern]

Looking at old videos of the journey it does look very run down and old and in some ways worse than most the run down branch lines outside London.

 

[IanD]

My last passage on the Woolwich Ferry was on 1984, and I felt intimidated by a group of youths. On leaving the ferry on the north side, I stayed well behind the group, only to see one of them punching an elderly Bangladeshi man who passed them full in the face. I tried to help him but he was being stoical, obviously being used to this level of hostility. I've not been in the area for thirty years, so don't know about gentrification, but I'd doubt it.

It hasn't improved.

 

[fgwrich]

It hasn't improved.

Can vouch for that. Having had to walk from nearby Prince Regent down to Royal Victoria earlier this year (at night) due to station closures, it's not an area to feel particularly safe in!

There's a video here on a 313 taken in 2005 from North Woolwich. I'm surprised how fast it manages to leave North Woolwich given the state of the trackwork! Of course it wasn't just the track which was in a fairly grim state - most of those 313s and 3 x 508 as operated by Silverlink Metro were also fairly dire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sNawiVXao0

 

[MatthewRead]

Can vouch for that. Having had to walk from nearby Prince Regent down to Royal Victoria earlier this year (at night) due to station closures, it's not an area to feel particularly safe in!

There's a video here on a 313 taken in 2005 from North Woolwich. I'm surprised how fast it manages to leave North Woolwich given the state of the trackwork! Of course it wasn't just the track which was in a fairly grim state - most of those 313s and 3 x 508 as operated by Silverlink Metro were also fairly dire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sNawiVXao0

The 508's only operated the Euston-Watford Junction service!

 

[Busaholic]

There's a video here on a 313 taken in 2005 from North Woolwich. I'm surprised how fast it manages to leave North Woolwich given the state of the trackwork!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sNawiVXao0

It obviously couldn't wait to get out of there!

 

[plcd1]

The half hourly service between Stratford and North Woolwich was probably the most infrequent service that only ran within Greater London.

Not really. As others have said there are plenty of other examples at that and which still remain today. South London is plagued by service groups which only run half hourly, worse on Sundays. Even the Overground lines out of Liverpool St are only half hourly to Cheshunt and half hourly to Enfield Town. Now OK they overlap as far as Edmonton but half hourly to Enfield is shoddy. Romford - Upminster is also half hourly but is constrained by the track layout. Let's also remember that some Crossrail frequencies to the west of London will not exactly be stellar either.

Obviously the North Woolwich alignment has been effectively re-used to give us two new railway routes which have better cross river links (or will) and which also improve local connectivity (DLR especially). The push to redevelop Stratford and parts of the East End plus the Olympics put some impetus behind the transport infrastructure changes and that's now pulling in more housing and development. Let's be honest places like Silvertown and North Woolwich were not exactly considered as desirable places to live and even now parts of North Woolwich are barely changed from 30+ years ago. It's one of those "undiscovered / largely ignored" corners of the capital.

 

[fgwrich]

The 508's only operated the Euston-Watford Junction service!

That I knew, however they weren't any better than the state of the rest of the Silverlink Metro fleet at the time. I think the 150s got off rather lightly having regular maintenance being carried out on them by Tyseley, as well as a fairly recent refurbishment carried out on the Centro fleet before Silverlink took their 8.