Northern 323 diagrams

[Jamesrob637]

Apparently all 17 323s have now been transferred from WMR. Are they working many Manchester diagrams to Blackpool as 6-car? Also, are more Liverpool to Blackpool going over to 323 operation and freeing up 331s for work elsewhere?

 

[Halish Railway]

Are they working many Manchester diagrams to Blackpool as 6-car? Also, are more Liverpool to Blackpool going over to 323 operation and freeing up 331s for work elsewhere?

From what I understand most Manchester Airport to Blackpool North services will be worked by 323s, allowing more 331/0s to transfer over to West Yorkshire. Most Liverpool to Blackpool services should be worked by 331/1s.

 

[scrapy]

They are not currently working any Blackpool to Manchester Airport diagrams as crew training has not been completed (or enough completed to allow a service to start) Also I don't think all the extended platforms have been signed off to allow them to work as 6 car. Will be December at the earliest.

 

[crosscity]

I've been keeping an eye on the transfers from Soho to Northern, ever since the first one left the West Midlands in October. The full list of 17 is here.

Unit	Name	Last seen in WM service	Source	Note	Date left WM	To
323202	Butlers Lane	Fri 12Apr2024	RailUK	Transfer No 4	Mon 15Apr2024	Wolverton, then Allerton 19Apr2024
323203	Aston	Sat 22Jun2024	RailUK	Transfer No 16	Mon 24Jun2024	Wolverton then Blackpool 27Jun2024
323205	Blake Street	Sat 18May2024	RailUK	Transfer No 7	Mon 20May2024	Wolverton then Allerton 23May2024
323206	Barnt Green	Sat 11May2024	RailUK	Transfer No 5	Mon 13May2024	Allerton
323207	Bournville	Fri 24May2024	RailUK	Transfer No 9	Tue 28May2024	Wolverton then Allerton 31May2024
323208	Five Ways	Transferred		Transfer No 1	Sat 28Oct2023	Allerton
323209	Birmingham New Street	Thu 09May2024	Crosscity	Transfer No 6	Mon 13May2024	Allerton
323210	Shenstone	Sat 18May2024	RailUK	Transfer No 8	Mon 20May2024	Wolverton then Allerton 23May2024
323212	Bromsgrove	Wed 27Dec2023	RailUK	Transfer No 2	Thu 04Jan2024	Wolverton, then Allerton 10Jan2024
323213	Sutton Coldfield	Wed 12Jun2024	RailUK	Transfer No 14	Mon 17Jun2024	Wolverton, then Allerton 20Jun2024
323217	Chester Road	Thu 06Jun2024	RailUK	Transfer No 11	Mon 10Jun2024	Wolverton then Allerton 13Jun2024
323218	Lichfield City	Fri 05Jul2024	RailUK	Transfer No 17	Mon 08Jul2024	Wolverton then Allerton 11Jul2024
323219	Kings Norton	Sun 09Jun2024	RailUK	Transfer No 12	Mon 10Jun2024	Wolverton then Allerton 13Jun2024
323220	Lichfield Trent Valley	Wed 27Dec2023	RailUK	Transfer No 3	Sat 06Jan2024	Wolverton, then Allerton 10Jan2024
323241	Dave Pomroy 323 Fleet Engineer 40 Years Service	Sun 16Jun2024	RailUK	Transfer No 15	Mon 24Jun2024	Wolverton then Blackpool 27Jun2024
323242	Alvechurch	Sat 15Jun2024	RailUK	Transfer No 13	Mon 17Jun2024	Wolverton, then Allerton 20Jun2024
323243	Longbridge	Sun 26May2024	RailUK	Transfer No 10	Tue 28May2024	Wolverton then Allerton 31May2024

 

[xtpe]

They are not currently working any Blackpool to Manchester Airport diagrams as crew training has not been completed (or enough completed to allow a service to start) Also I don't think all the extended platforms have been signed off to allow them to work as 6 car. Will be December at the earliest.

Yes this is going to be interesting as i seem to remember the original invitation to tender for the northern franchise that arriva took over in 2016 stated that units on the Blackpool to Manchester Airport service had to be modern units with tables and air conditioning which the 331 units provide but the 323 unit do not. But I am happy to be proven wrong on that as I can not find the original document and as the franchise was terminated i am guessing all bets are off but it probably wont be a good look for the new Labour government to have the local Conservative MP complain that now labour have taken over they

 

[jonesy3001]

When the wires are up on the westhoughton line the 323s will be used on stalybridge to wigan north western via bolton.
Post in the manchester railways group on Facebook has 206 and 209 at manchester International depot for driver training for Victoria drivers.

 

[CAF397]

but it probably wont be a good look for the new Labour government to have the local Conservative MP complain that now labour have taken over they

I'd just point out to them that it was the DfT under the previous Conservative Government that meddled in the fleet requirements of Northern, necessitating the swapping of 331/0s and 331/1s, thus reducing the availability of 6-car 331s on the Blackpool-Airport route, amongst others.

 

[jonesy3001]

Now that all 17 have transferred, when will they start going into northern livery?

 

[Geeves]

It might well be vinyl for the amount of time they have left but I am sure we will see in time

 

[EZJ]

This 323 could be out of action for a while after this little nudge at Piccadilly today. Oops!

(Image shows a 67 loco that has rolled into a 323 unit on platform 5 at Manchester Piccadilly)

 

[Trainguy34]

Looks like it left on time as the 15:46 to Stoke on Trent (2K10) according to RTT. Could be mistaken but who knows?

 

[Jamesrob637]

All Mk4s left Manchester on time today bar the 06:30 which leaves from P14 anyway. Clearly nothing serious.

 

[EZJ]

All Mk4s left Manchester on time today bar the 06:30 which leaves from P14 anyway. Clearly nothing serious.

A train rolling back into another unit will be taken very seriously.

 

[scrapy]

Yes this is going to be interesting as i seem to remember the original invitation to tender for the northern franchise that arriva took over in 2016 stated that units on the Blackpool to Manchester Airport service had to be modern units with tables and air conditioning which the 331 units provide but the 323 unit do not. But I am happy to be proven wrong on that as I can not find the original document and as the franchise was terminated i am guessing all bets are off but it probably wont be a good look for the new Labour government to have the local Conservative MP complain that now labour have taken over they

That invitation to tender no longer applies, however at that time there was to be just 1tph Blackpool to Manchester Airport with 1tph Manchester Vic to Blackpool stopper and a Preston to Hazel Grove service. There are now 2tph Blackpool to Manchester Airport so it is likely 1tph will still meet the standards of air conditioning and table seats.

 

[185]

A train rolling back into another unit will be taken very seriously.

Well, at least the loco actually made it to Piccadilly. Kinda lucky it wasn't the awful trio of TfW 153s on 1W60 - the one two hours later. That might almost have nearly coupled & took the poor old 323 with them, however that train unsurprisingly fell apart and never actually got to Manchester, expiring somewhere near Hereford.

Tis surprising the job wasn't stopped though. Carry on, nothing to see

 

[BillStampy]

This 323 could be out of action for a while after this little nudge at Piccadilly today. Oops!

(Image shows a 67 loco that has rolled into a 323 unit on platform 5 at Manchester Piccadilly)

Yikes! Not sure how they screwed that up, shocked to see it left Piccadilly on time as if nothing happened.

 

[Anonymous10]

This 323 could be out of action for a while after this little nudge at Piccadilly today. Oops!

(Image shows a 67 loco that has rolled into a 323 unit on platform 5 at Manchester Piccadilly)

Could have been an interesting formation to Cardiff.

 

[nw1]

It might well be vinyl for the amount of time they have left but I am sure we will see in time

Must be good until around 2030, I'd guess.

SWT fully re-painted slam door stock into their livery around 1997-99 with only a few years left.

 

[childwallblues]

Has anything been reorted on the re-instatement of the 30 minute service from Liverpool to stations on the Earlestown line.

 

[scrapy]

Has anything been reorted on the re-instatement of the 30 minute service from Liverpool to stations on the Earlestown line.

Northern wanted to run an hourly peak only Liverpool to Stalybridge service which would reinstate a half hourly service on the Chat Moss route and on the Stalybridge line however the delays on 323 training seem to have put this back until at least December. As far as I'm aware there are no plans to reinstate the Warrington BQ service from Lime St.

 

[darylyates17]

Northern wanted to run an hourly peak only Liverpool to Stalybridge service which would reinstate a half hourly service on the Chat Moss route and on the Stalybridge line however the delays on 323 training seem to have put this back until at least December. As far as I'm aware there are no plans to reinstate the Warrington BQ service from Lime St.

Are there enough paths to allow a Stalybridge and Manchester Airport service to run hourly? ERL to LIV really needs another stopping service.

 

[childwallblues]

Are there enough paths to allow a Stalybridge and Manchester Airport service to run hourly? ERL to LIV really needs another stopping service.

Well there should be. Prior to Covid there were 2 x TPE and 2 x Northern trains between Lime Street and Earlestown plus freights. Currently there are just two, one TPE and one Northern plus one peak hour morning and evening between Lime Street. Chat Moss is a 90 mph railway with overhead wires and modern signalling so should be able to cope with one extra train.

 

[cjbirkett]

Anyone after wm liveried 323s with Northern, 219 is on Liverpool-Man Airport services (diagram involving 2F21 07.32 Airport-Liverpool) and 207 is on Liverpool-Wigan services (diagram involving 2F58 08.17 Lime street-Wigan)

 

[thealexweb]

Has anything been reorted on the re-instatement of the 30 minute service from Liverpool to stations on the Earlestown line.

The Liverpool-Warrington Bank Quay stopper is gone for good. Unfortunately, it had the highest subsidy of any Northern service.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The Liverpool-Warrington Bank Quay stopper is gone for good. Unfortunately, it had the highest subsidy of any Northern service.

Still runs in the peaks though, doesn't it? But only peak times.

 

[childwallblues]

323207 and 323219 are operating on the two Class 323 diagrams out of Liverpool.
323207 will be on the 1652 from Wigan to Liverpool. I was on this service yesterday when it was 323225.

 

[thealexweb]

Still runs in the peaks though, doesn't it? But only peak times.

Realtime Trains | 1906 Ellesmere Port to Liverpool Lime Street | 16/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 1906 departure from Ellesmere Port to Liverpool Lime Street on 16/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This is the only service running between those stations today’s. I think the hourly EMU stopper is long dead.

 

[childwallblues]

The Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport service diagram on which 323219 is working today is due to change from 323 to 331/1 from the December timetable change.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport service diagram on which 323219 is working today is due to change from 323 to 331/1 from the December timetable change.

A small uplift in capacity then

 

[AMD]

This is the only service running between those stations today’s. I think the hourly EMU stopper is long dead.

As dead as a dodo.
The potential return of the 30 min service could one day come back with a proposal floating about for Liverpool - Stalybridge services, which could see 323s....