Northern cancellations getting worse

[Killingworth]

This is apparently leading to a fivefold reduction in cancellations

Train companies vow to address driver shortages that are causing severe disruption

Train companies claim they are working to address driver shortages which have caused widespread disruption for passengers across the North.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Sadly on the Hope Valley line we still saw 1 in 3 services late removed from last Sunday's timetable. There are no CIS screens on several station platforms to pass on that information and announcements are all but inaudible even if standing below loudspeakers. That doesn't give non rail enthusiasts a wish to use trains more often.

 

[Kite159]

Sadly on the Hope Valley line we still saw 1 in 3 services late removed from last Sunday's timetable. There are no CIS screens on several station platforms to pass on that information and announcements are all but inaudible even if standing below loudspeakers. That doesn't give non rail enthusiasts a wish to use trains more often.

And especially as they are pre planned, those passengers won't get anything back from being delayed.

 

[muz379]

But the idea of "Sunday is not part of the working week" is, IMHO, a relic, and needs to go. Other sectors have agreements about how many weekends somebody can be required to work, and that sort of thing, and I hope something similar could be negotiated - but I don't know of any comparable role where working Sundays is voluntary.

Sundays can be "not part of the working week" but still involve a contractual requirement to work them .

Northern Drivers on the west are contractually required to work their booked sundays with a few exceptions , namely if it falls in the middle of or at the end of any annual leave or if cover can be found . So whilst the sundays are outside the 35hr working week there is a contractual requirement to work the overtime .

Of course drivers off sick , and those removed from driving duties are also unable to be utilised and this is where shortages come in if there are not enough suitable volunteers to work additional sundays

 

[richfoz84]

The point is that any other industry sorted out such issues long, long ago. The fact that rail hasn't isn't a reason for understanding the situation. It's a reason for deep, deep criticism.

I don’t disagree, I’m just stating the facts as to why there is such a poor Sunday service!

 

[Seehof]

Are they so short of drivers now that none are ever rostered “spare” who cover sick, leave days other duties (eg rules exam, jury service, etc)? You cannot run a railway dependent on rest days. As I got older I found shift work more difficult (us oldies at York said reaching 60 was the watershed!) and you definitely don’t do rest days then unless you really have to.

 

[mandub]

Are they so short of drivers now that none are ever rostered “spare” who cover sick, leave days other duties (eg rules exam, jury service, etc)? You cannot run a railway dependent on rest days. As I got older I found shift work more difficult (us oldies at York said reaching 60 was the watershed!) and you definitely don’t do rest days then unless you really have to.

There are loads of spare turns at my depot. At least 1 and regularly 2 per week on each line of work.
But I've not been left spare once all year. I get marked to a job on the 72 hour sheets.
If you sign all routes and traction this is how it is now.

 

[43066]

You cannot run a railway dependent on rest days.

Pretty sure that’s how its been run since the mid 19th century….

 

[ItsGrimUpNorth]

Great start back on the Tyne Valley late afternoon, with the 1623 and 1640 to Carlisle both cancelled, lovely gap from 1540 to 1723!

Luckily I did some christmas shopping to fill my time but not the best look on the day the line fully reopened!

 

[ricoblade]

On the 10:54 to Leeds from Retford, 2 car turns up, already heaving at Worksop, now can’t open the doors at Darnall so not calling. What’s happened to the 3 car sets, they seem to have disappeared off this service.

 

[yorksrob]

They should have kept those 153's !

 

[_toommm_]

On the 10:54 to Leeds from Retford, 2 car turns up, already heaving at Worksop, now can’t open the doors at Darnall so not calling. What’s happened to the 3 car sets, they seem to have disappeared off this service.

The three car sets don’t work the services to Leeds as they often share platform 17 at Leeds with the Knottingley services and the Sheffield via Castleford services, so if you had a three car 195, the Knottingley service couldn’t fit on top.

 

[Killingworth]

The three car sets don’t work the services to Leeds as they often share platform 17 at Leeds with the Knottingley services and the Sheffield via Castleford services, so if you had a three car 195, the Knottingley service couldn’t fit on top.

Making the Leeds - Nottingham/Lincoln 3 car is wanted and acknowledged to be needed. One day it will be done. In the meantime it happens on Sundays when platform space in Leeds is available.

 

[Andyh82]

They need to hurry up and lengthen Platform 17 so the Sheffield and Nottingham services can be 3 cars

 

[londonmidland]

How about swapping the 195s and 158s, so the 158s are back on the Nottingham express services, as they were a few years ago, with the 195s on the Sheffield stoppers?

Never understood why they put 158s on the stoppers, as their door arrangement isn’t the best, as well as having inferior acceleration for stop-start work.

 

[ChrisC]

On the 10:54 to Leeds from Retford, 2 car turns up, already heaving at Worksop, now can’t open the doors at Darnall so not calling. What’s happened to the 3 car sets, they seem to have disappeared off this service.

Better still would be to restore the Sheffield to Gainsborough Central stopping services that never returned following covid service reductions. Trains from Lincoln would then not need to call at all the smaller stations between Worksop and Sheffield.

 

[yorksrob]

How about swapping the 195s and 158s, so the 158s are back on the Nottingham express services, as they were a few years ago, with the 195s on the Sheffield stoppers?

Never understood why they put 158s on the stoppers, as their door arrangement isn’t the best, as well as having inferior acceleration for stop-start work.

Not enough capacity on the 2 carriage 195's for the Hallam stopper I'm afraid.

158's are good for soaking up crowds.

 

[johnnychips]

I don’t like the service cuts by Northern in the South Yorkshire area - the Brigg Line, Gainsborough, Doncaster - Sheffield to 2 trains per three hours from two an hour. However, I do find the current timetable is reasonably reliable: I am surprised when a Northern train is cancelled, whereas I expect it with TPE. I also get my ticket checked on about 80-90% of journeys.

 

[johntea]

Despite any cancellations or delays Northern may encounter I always find the morale and friendliness of the ground staff seems to remain higher than other operators, it’s always nice to be wished a good afternoon by a guard upon departing and for another to make a fuss over our cocker spaniel who we take on the train every weekend as he absolutely loves trains

 

[Pabloid]

While Northern have been cancelling services due to staff shortages for some time, they do seem to have got much worse in the past few days.

Today is the first day I've noticed they've deleted Sunday Mid-Cheshire services from RTT (what they will be claiming is a short notice change to the timetable). When this happens they don't advertise the cancellation on Journey Check and won't organise a replacement bus service. This means 4 hours gaps in service without any replacement buses requested.

Yesterday evening the 21:40 Manchester to Chester was deleted from the timetable and the 22:40 was a short notice cancellation due to staff shortages. While the advertised the 22:40 was cancelled they just added a note saying 'passengers should travel on the next service'. The 23:40 was a 2 carriage service, so not only did Northern make no attempt to arrange replacement transport, they made no attempt to strengthen the last service after the previous two had been cancelled. There was also an instance of a short notice cancellation being the service after a deleted service during the week.

I know that these issues have been going on for months and some lines, such as the Stoke route, have been affected more than others. As Northern are actually running a reduced service on the Glossop line due to an infrastructure problem, why are they having issues staffing so many other services out of Piccadilly? I notice the Wilmslow route is also being affected.

Northern's big problem is 195's/331's. Guards HATE working them. Even with strikes eroding pay, they are reluctant to work SHF & LIV & when they volunteer o/t they worrý they'll get thesè jobs. Result is they knock back Sun work.

 

[Killingworth]

Northern's big problem is 195's/331's. Guards HATE working them. Even with strikes eroding pay, they are reluctant to work SHF & LIV & when they volunteer o/t they worrý they'll get thesè jobs. Result is they knock back Sun work.

Biggest practical issue for passengers with 195/331s is the time it takes before the door release buttons operate, often because the guard is trapped somewhere within the train in the middle of a complex ticket related issue - or just due to crush loading.

 

[D6130]

Biggest practical issue for passengers with 195/331s is the time it takes before the door release buttons operate, often because the guard is trapped somewhere within the train in the middle of a complex ticket related issue - or just due to crush loading.

Even if the guard is riding in the rear cab when the train arrives at a station stop, if the platform is on the left hand side, they have to fight their way to the second set of doors, due to the fact that the design is configured for right hand running in Spain. This is a fairly major design fault that Northern seemingly overlooked when specifying the units.

 

[Kite159]

Even if the guard is riding in the rear cab when the train arrives at a station stop, if the platform is on the left hand side, they have to fight their way to the second set of doors, due to the fact that the design is configured for right hand running in Spain. This is a fairly major design fault that Northern seemingly overlooked when specifying the units.

If only they went down the route of driver releasing the doors (165/166 style) with the guard closing them. That way the guard wouldn't have to fight so much.

Especially on a busy service from Bolton towards Piccadilly where the platforms swap sides (right hand side at Salford, left hand at Deansgate/Oxford Road and right hand side at Piccadilly)

 

[geoffk]

The three car sets don’t work the services to Leeds as they often share platform 17 at Leeds with the Knottingley services and the Sheffield via Castleford services, so if you had a three car 195, the Knottingley service couldn’t fit on top.

Does the Lincoln service really need to run through to and from Leeds?

 

[Peterthegreat]

Does the Lincoln service really need to run through to and from Leeds?

No. It's for operating convenience really.

 

[Killingworth]

No. It's for operating convenience really.

It's part of the half hourly semi-fast service between Sheffield and Leeds that alternates to become hourly to Lincoln and Nottingham. (The Nottingham part alternates with the EMR Liverpool - Norwich to give a half hourly service between Sheffield and Nottingham.) Cross Country provide the hourly fast between SheffieldcandcLeeds.

 

[Peterthegreat]

It's part of the half hourly semi-fast service between Sheffield and Leeds that alternates to become hourly to Lincoln and Nottingham. (The Nottingham part alternates with the EMR Liverpool - Norwich to give a half hourly service between Sheffield and Nottingham.) Cross Country provide the hourly fast between SheffieldcandcLeeds.

It's actually two services put together for mainly operating convenience as was the previous Adwick/Scunthorpe to Lincoln service a few years ago. Yes there may be a few additional journey opportunities such as Lincoln to Meadowhall and Worksop to Leeds but it is mainly for operating convenience.

 

[Killingworth]

It's actually two services put together for mainly operating convenience as was the previous Adwick/Scunthorpe to Lincoln service a few years ago. Yes there may be a few additional journey opportunities such as Lincoln to Meadowhall and Worksop to Leeds but it is mainly for operating convenience.

Wasn't it part of Northern's Connect ambitions? See; https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ginal-plans-vs-what-actually-happened.168219/

 

[Andyh82]

And also that the South Yorkshire stations on the Lincoln line have generally always had a link to Meadowhall (it was Adwick before this, fairly long term before that it was the Huddersfield). There was talk here previously that the PTE specifies this link.

 

[317 forever]

It's actually two services put together for mainly operating convenience as was the previous Adwick/Scunthorpe to Lincoln service a few years ago. Yes there may be a few additional journey opportunities such as Lincoln to Meadowhall and Worksop to Leeds but it is mainly for operating convenience.

I know what you mean. When I travelled from Lincoln to Leeds in September I shunned the direct train via Sheffield but changed at Doncaster instead. Admittedly I had reached Lincoln on the route from Sheffield, and wanted to ride the infrequent service from Lincoln to Doncaster to connect with an LNER 225.

 

[ricoblade]

Better still would be to restore the Sheffield to Gainsborough Central stopping services that never returned following covid service reductions. Trains from Lincoln would then not need to call at all the smaller stations between Worksop and Sheffield.

Agreed - I was going to post exactly that.

I returned on the 17:37 yesterday which the NR App said was coming from Leeds onto Platform 1A. A 2 car appeared ECS from the south and became the 17:37, no idea what happened to the incoming service! Was rammed (football and xmas shopping/partying) and left people on the platform, only eased after Worksop.

The three car sets don’t work the services to Leeds as they often share platform 17 at Leeds with the Knottingley services and the Sheffield via Castleford services, so if you had a three car 195, the Knottingley service couldn’t fit on top.

That is a ******* stupid reason to run a rubbish service, what's more important operating convenience or passengers?