Northern line operation questions

[miklcct]

1. At Camden Town, do trains always alternate branches in both directions?
2. If the first train coming to me is for the wrong branch for a journey across Camden Town, how likely I can get on an earlier train to my destination by changing than waiting for a through train?
3. Are Morden trains always via Bank, and Battersea trains always via Charing Cross?
4. In the northbound direction, if I get off the train at Stockwell, switch to the Victoria line and get back to Northern line at Euston (Bank branch), is it more likely the first train will be for the same / different branches north of Camden Town compare to the one I got off at Stockwell?

Thanks for answering the above questions.

 

[bramling]

1. At Camden Town, do trains always alternate branches in both directions?

This is how the timetable tends to be arranged, but it doesn’t always hold true.

1. If the first train coming to me is for the wrong branch for a journey across Camden Town, how likely I can get on an earlier train to my destination by changing than waiting for a through train?

If everything is running on time then doubtful, there isn’t time to walk from one platform to another. The exception is for High Barnet trains if the branch you’re on has just had a Mill Hill train, but in that case you’re better to take the Mill Hill train and change at Finchley Central. If the service is disrupted then changing at Camden can be more beneficial.

1. Are Morden trains always via Bank, and Battersea trains always via Charing Cross?

Normally, yes. Battersea trains have to be via Charing Cross, but Morden trains can run via both. The timetable has most Morden trains running via Bank, and all doing so during the off-peak. Again during disruption trains can be diverted.

1. In the northbound direction, if I get off the train at Stockwell, switch to the Victoria line and get back to Northern line at Euston (Bank branch), is it more likely the first train will be for the same / different branches north of Camden Town compare to the one I got off at Stockwell?

It is quite possible to get on the train 6 mins ahead, in which case it will be for the same branch. Even more certain to be on the one 3 mins ahead, in which case it will be for the other branch. Again this will all vary if the service is disrupted. Nowadays the Charing Cross branch is almost as quick, so in reality changing at Kennington is often just as good. The interchange is more relaxed and you would have a better pick of seats, especially on an Edgware train.

 

[miklcct]

OK I understand now. I think the flowchart in this article gives a good idea how I should take trains for a North-South journey, which is:
Going northbound, switch to Victoria at Stockwell then back to Northern at Euston.
Going southbound, if the train is via Charing Cross, take all the way to Kennington; if the train is via Bank, switch to Victoria at Euston than back at Stockwell.

I did the journey today and, in the northbound direction, the train I boarded at Morden was for the correct branch north of Camden Town, I switched to Victoria at Stockwell then back to Northern line at Euston, but the train was for the other branch. I boarded and got off at Camden Town and went to the other platform but unfortunately I just saw the train departed and had to wait for the next one. I ended up 6 minutes faster than staying on the same train all the way to Kentish Town, which meant I ended up going ahead 3 trains (9 minutes) by the Victoria line shortcut.

 

[bramling]

OK I understand now. I think the flowchart in this article gives a good idea how I should take trains for a North-South journey, which is:
Going northbound, switch to Victoria at Stockwell then back to Northern at Euston.
Going southbound, if the train is via Charing Cross, take all the way to Kennington; if the train is via Bank, switch to Victoria at Euston than back at Stockwell.

I did the journey today and, in the northbound direction, the train I boarded at Morden was for the correct branch north of Camden Town, I switched to Victoria at Stockwell then back to Northern line at Euston, but the train was for the other branch. I boarded and got off at Camden Town and went to the other platform but unfortunately I just saw the train departed and had to wait for the next one. I ended up 6 minutes faster than staying on the same train all the way to Kentish Town, which meant I ended up going ahead 3 trains (9 minutes) by the Victoria line shortcut.

What specific journey are you making?

Personally I would probably travel via the Charing Cross branch changing at Kennington, unless in a burning hurry.

The Vic, whilst quick, isn’t a wonderful way to cross London (especially in the northbound direction) due to generally being very busy. By contrast apart from in the high peak the Northern is quite civilised. Going north change at Kennington and jump in the very rear of the CX branch train and you’re likely to have a quite undisturbed journey at many times of day.

Having said that, if you do end up on a Bank train going south, the Vic is undoubtedly better than the long slog via Bank. Again the very rear of a southbound Vic Line train tends to be fairly empty at many times of day.

 

[miklcct]

What specific journey are you making?

Any journey which include Camden Town - Stockwell. Which station north of Camden Town or south of Stockwell doesn't matter.

 

[sjm93]

Going northbound, switch to Victoria at Stockwell then back to Northern at Euston.
Going southbound, if the train is via Charing Cross, take all the way to Kennington; if the train is via Bank, switch to Victoria at Euston than back at Stockwell.

Why would direction of travel affect whether it’s best to change at Kennington or Stockwell & Euston?

I’ve lived in Balham for five years and have always used the Victoria line to travel to Warren Street and beyond.

 

[miklcct]

Why would direction of travel affect whether it’s best to change at Kennington or Stockwell & Euston?

Because if the first southbound train is via Charing Cross (the faster branch), the additional waiting time for a train via Bank may nullify the saving via the Victoria line.

However, in the northbound direction, all trains are via Bank (the slower branch) and there is no guarantee at Kennington that the first train via Charing Cross is for your destination, in such case going via Victoria becomes much faster.

 

[Taunton]

Is it still the procedure that in the morning peak northbound Bank trains all go to Edgware, and northbound Charing Cross trains all go to the Barnet line? This is the against-peak direction at Camden, so interchanging passengers are fewer and easier to do, and avoiding the interleaving of services helps the timekeeping. You can tell this is in hand by all the services on the indicators in Central London being for one northern branch only. I believe it started when enforced after the northbound points at Camden were damaged in an incident, and was found to be helpful when there were fewer passengers interchanging. At other times the numbers would overwhelm the limited interchange passages there.

 

[Basil Jet]

Is it still the procedure that in the morning peak northbound Bank trains all go to Edgware, and northbound Charing Cross trains all go to the Barnet line? This is the against-peak direction at Camden, so interchanging passengers are fewer and easier to do, and avoiding the interleaving of services helps the timekeeping. You can tell this is in hand by all the services on the indicators in Central London being for one northern branch only. I believe it started when enforced after the northbound points at Camden were damaged in an incident, and was found to be helpful when there were fewer passengers interchanging. At other times the numbers would overwhelm the limited interchange passages there.

Yes. The LUL Working Timetables are at https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/working-timetables , and each contains a frequency summary in the first few pages.

 

[Stephen42]

Is it still the procedure that in the morning peak northbound Bank trains all go to Edgware, and northbound Charing Cross trains all go to the Barnet line? This is the against-peak direction at Camden, so interchanging passengers are fewer and easier to do, and avoiding the interleaving of services helps the timekeeping. You can tell this is in hand by all the services on the indicators in Central London being for one northern branch only. I believe it started when enforced after the northbound points at Camden were damaged in an incident, and was found to be helpful when there were fewer passengers interchanging. At other times the numbers would overwhelm the limited interchange passages there.

Another benefit with the morning peak setup is in peak hour it allows a couple more trains via Bank than Charing Cross northbound.

 

[Mikey C]

As an aside, the service can sometimes be surprisingly lumpy.

For example on Monday at around 5pm I wanted a Bank branch train from Golders Green, but the first 2 trains were Charing X ones. I thus went to Camden Town to change to the other southbound platform coming down from Highgate, and the first 2 trains there were also on the Charing X branch!

So that was 4 Charing X trains within 3 minutes all arriving at Camden, and it wasn't as if there was an announced problem on the Bank branch, just a glut of Charing X trains following each other.

 

[Mikey C]

The Northern Line was rubbish today, with very uneven spacing.

For example going south from Golders Green at 1:30, there was a 6 minute gap between the first train a CHX one and the next train a Bank one, and changing at Camden Town the wait on the Barnet branch for a Bank train was even longer.

While returning around 6ish via Camden, there was a 7 minutes wait for an Edgware train, then another a minute later...

 

[bramling]

The Northern Line was rubbish today, with very uneven spacing.

For example going south from Golders Green at 1:30, there was a 6 minute gap between the first train a CHX one and the next train a Bank one, and changing at Camden Town the wait on the Barnet branch for a Bank train was even longer.

While returning around 6ish via Camden, there was a 7 minutes wait for an Edgware train, then another a minute later...

Shortage of drivers which is a particular issue at weekends. Also the Northern Line seems to be slightly short of rolling stock availability at the moment as well. There also seems to be a general view that there are “issues” with the performance of the line’s service control function at the moment too. All these factors aligning together will be contributing to the lumpy service.

 

[Dstock7080]

Defective train at High Barnet 0835-1135 with service suspended Finchley Central-High Barnet during this period with trains withdrawn from service to ease congestion.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I really wish they'd run a more frequent service from CHX down to Morden, at least on weekends and throughout the evenings. From about 3pm on a Saturday and Sunday, the southbound Bank branch platform can look like the morning peak hour. It seems absurd to make people change for the West End right at the peak of the leisure time, especially now Crossrail is open at TCR.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I ended up 6 minutes faster than staying on the same train all the way to Kentish Town

Two changes sounds a lot of effort for 6 minutes saving.

 

[greatkingrat]

Two changes sounds a lot of effort for 6 minutes saving.

Both changes are cross platform so the effort is minimal.

 

[Jimini]

Both changes are cross platform so the effort is minimal.

Aye, I used to do the "Stockwell shuffle" all the time when I lived in Tooting Bec, then change back at Euston if heading further north. It only saves 6-8 mins, but the Bank branch feels like it takes an eternity by comparison!

 

[Mikey C]

Shortage of drivers which is a particular issue at weekends. Also the Northern Line seems to be slightly short of rolling stock availability at the moment as well. There also seems to be a general view that there are “issues” with the performance of the line’s service control function at the moment too. All these factors aligning together will be contributing to the lumpy service.

Again there was a reasonable frequency today, but annoying scheduling so that going south from Golders Green this afternoon there were 2 consecutive Bank trains, followed by 2 consecutive Charing Cross ones....

 

[Mikey C]

Shortage of drivers which is a particular issue at weekends. Also the Northern Line seems to be slightly short of rolling stock availability at the moment as well. There also seems to be a general view that there are “issues” with the performance of the line’s service control function at the moment too. All these factors aligning together will be contributing to the lumpy service.

A gap in the southbound Bank service on both branches today, late morning. It was notable when we arrived at London Bridge HOW crowded the platform was.