Northern manual checks of mobile tickets

[Lampshade]

Hi All

I regularly commute in Manchester from the Bolton direction, and while the closest station to my office is Salford Crescent (so I usually alight there in the morning and walk), I buy my ticket through to Manchester as firstly it’s the same price, and secondly it gives me the flexibility to return from a city centre station in the evening. Being an Anytime Day Return (not advances) I’m perfectly entitled to do this - am I not?

Every morning passengers using Northern’s app/e-tickets are funnelled through a single gate at Salford Crescent, having to scan their tickets on a seperate machine, with staff barking at mobile users to use that gate, and a team waiting for anyone who's ticket isn't accepted.

Now is my ticket ever accepted? Of course it isn't. Then invariably the guy I'm directed to doesn't have a clue, last summer I got challenged by them for alighting there with a SEASON TICKET, and the most recent encounter:

"This ticket is to Manchester"
Me: "Yes"
"This is Salford, this is not Manchester"
Me: *resisting the temptation to be massively sarcastic* "Yes, it's a valid ticket"
"Oh - are you going that way?" *gesticulating northbound*
Me: "No - I am breaking my journey here" - and walked out

Dare I ask - what is the need for this? If it's an issue with Northern not trusting passengers to use app/e-tickets then withdraw them, the above is just not okay.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Being an Anytime Day Return (not advances) I’m perfectly entitled to do this - am I not?

Take it we're talking about the £7.90 Bolton -> Manchester CTLZ Anytime Day Return fare? Shouldn't be any problem in breaking / resuming journey at Salford Crescent on this. Apart from badly programmed ticket barriers / poorly briefed revenue protection staff.

 

[Lampshade]

Take it we're talking about the £7.90 Bolton -> Manchester CTLZ Anytime Day Return fare? Shouldn't be any problem in breaking / resuming journey at Salford Crescent on this. Apart from badly programmed ticket barriers / poorly briefed revenue protection staff.

Buckshaw Parkway, but yes the same ticket type.

 

[setdown]

If they're making lives difficult for e-ticket users, I'd just use a paper ticket instead.

 

[Haywain]

Dare I ask - what is the need for this?

They are using a device that does a better job of checking barcoded tickets than the barriers.

 

[jfollows]

If the staff are Carlisle Security, who are often contracted by Northern to check tickets, it wouldn't surprise me at all - they have "form" for making things up and penalising people travelling with perfectly valid tickets much more than regular Northern staff, although I wouldn't exempt the latter totally either.
My partner never has a problem at Stockport with a Wilmslow-Manchester return ticket, even when the barriers aren't in use.
It's not about lack of trust, it's incompetence and poor training. Nothing unusual there. Sorry it's become a pain for you, but if it's any consolation you're not alone!

 

[OscarH]

They are using a device that does a better job of checking barcoded tickets than the barriers.

Obviously only works if the staff are better trained than cubic barriers too

 

[Lampshade]

They are using a device that does a better job of checking barcoded tickets than the barriers.

Evidently not if it's rejecting perfectly valid tickets (barriers always work fine doing the return journey)

 

[Haywain]

Evidently not if it's rejecting perfectly valid tickets (barriers always work fine doing the return journey)

On the contrary, it doesn't accept or reject tickets, it provides the details of the ticket to the user. It's the human bit that's the problem. Normal barriers won't, for example, highlight railcard discounts being applied.

 

[Kite159]

Poorly trained contractors who has never heard of the concept of a break of journey?

In theory the extra check could be worthwhile in case someone tries to exit with something like a Salford Central - Salford Crescent ticket* as a way to short fare (the sort who will generally head towards the front of the train to avoid getting gripped) when the machine says it hasn't had an entry scan. Or to check railcards etc, but if the staff don't understand a simple concept like breaking a journey on an anytime day return then it's just anti-passenger.

(*Or even something stupid like a Clifton - Salford Crescent ticket)

 

[jfollows]

if the staff don't understand a simple concept like breaking a journey on an anytime day return then it's just anti-passenger.

Yes, it is.
Along with issuing penalty fares to people with completely valid tickets, for example. They are a menace and although many of us would face them down (politely of course) there will be many passengers whom they intimidate into paying up.

 

[sheff1]

If they're making lives difficult for e-ticket users, I'd just use a paper ticket instead.

Exactly what I do going to Piccadilly. Far easier to wave a bit of orange card than go through the scanning farce.

 

[northwichcat]

My partner never has a problem at Stockport with a Wilmslow-Manchester return ticket, even when the barriers aren't in use.

At Stockport the barriers are between platform 0 and platforms 1-4 so I think the policy is accept everything valid via Stockport, whether it's the barriers or a manual check. I was using a Northern complimentary ticket one day and my onward connection was cancelled and the staff didn't have any issue with letting me out, rather than spending an hour at the station.

 

[Watershed]

At Stockport the barriers are between platform 0 and platforms 1-4 so I think the policy is accept everything valid via Stockport, whether it's the barriers or a manual check. I was using a Northern complimentary ticket one day and my onward connection was cancelled and the staff didn't have any issue with letting me out, rather than spending an hour at the station.

Platform 0 seems to be used only on rare occasions. Most of the time it is out of use due to being unstaffed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Platform 0 seems to be used only on rare occasions. Most of the time it is out of use due to being unstaffed.

Don't up to 20 Northern services (headed for Buxton) use Platform 0 at Stockport each and every weekday? Also ten East Midlands trains bound for Norwich?

 

[northwichcat]

Don't up to 20 Northern services (headed for Buxton) use Platform 0 at Stockport each and every weekday? Also ten East Midlands trains bound for Norwich?

Based on RTT for today a few early services called there (including a Northern service to Sheffield via Hazel Grove) and then the rest are showing a changed platform: https://realtimetrains.co.uk/search...24-02-15/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[jfollows]

Operationally platform 0 is a total pain - firstly because it needs special staffing, and secondly because it can only be reached by using the up slow line at Slade Lane Junction, which is a pain if there's a stopping train in front. Also it can't be used for Chester trains. To be avoided unless necessary. Off-topic now I know.
To my original point - they're apparently quite au fait with the concept of breaking a journey there, when they perform a manual check, my partner has no problem holding on to his ticket to Manchester and using it later the same day, as he's entitled to. Unlike at Salford Crescent, it would appear. Could be because they're real rail staff at Stockport rather than contractors.

 

[sheff1]

Don't up to 20 Northern services (headed for Buxton) use Platform 0 at Stockport each and every weekday? Also ten East Midlands trains bound for Norwich?

I have not been on a Sheffield bound train which has used platform 0 for a very long time, it always seems to be closed - in the evenings at least.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that this thread is for the discussion of Northern manual checks of mobile tickets. If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they are welcome to start a new thread elsewhere. Thanks.

 

[northwichcat]

I found at Manchester Victoria last night the ticket barriers wouldn't scan a pdf on my phone and other people were having the same issue. Victoria seems to have a different design of barrier to other stations I've scanned e-tickets at, I'm not sure why.

If there's issues with barriers not liking certain phones - maybe because of the screen brightness, they should probably have more barriers with manual checks.

Could be because they're real rail staff at Stockport rather than contractors.

Stockport revenue staff wear Avanti uniforms. Not that it means anything by itself. However, the level of training provided and checking people are following correct procedures is more relevant than if they are employed directly or indirectly by the train operator. People don't notice if their bus driver is an employee or agency staff. They notice if they forget the correct route, or aren't familiar with the ticket options on offer. It's the same with revenue staff on the railways.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Stockport revenue staff wear Avanti uniforms. Not that it means anything by itself.

If they're Avanti, does that mean that they assume everyone is off an Avanti train and using an Advance, and so is not entitled to break their journey/finish short?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If they're Avanti, does that mean that they assume everyone is off an Avanti train and using an Advance, and so is not entitled to break their journey/finish short?

Given that plenty of Avanti users don't use Advances (the Off Peaks are much more reasonably priced than other routes) that would be a more than slightly odd assumption.

 

[skyhigh]

I found at Manchester Victoria last night the ticket barriers wouldn't scan a pdf on my phone and other people were having the same issue. Victoria seems to have a different design of barrier to other stations I've scanned e-tickets at, I'm not sure why.

They are a rather elderly design that's had an optical reader bodged on as an aftermarket addition - the barriers are coming up for 10yrs old and are the type that Serco Northern installed at their managed stations (also found at Bradford Interchange and used to be at Leeds for example).

They are considered end-of-life and a business plan is being drawn up to support replacement with a more modern design that better suits scanning.