Northern Psychometrics

[JDAWC]

Hi all, somebody told me a couple of weeks back that Northern has dropped their psychometric test pass requirement from enhanced to standard. Is this true? Thanks.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

Hi all, somebody told me a couple of weeks back that Northern has dropped their psychometric test pass requirement from enhanced to standard. Is this true? Thanks.

No still enhanced standard

Screenshot attached of requirements section from trainee driver vacancy at Newcastle

 

[12LDA28C]

No still enhanced standard

Screenshot attached of requirements section from trainee driver vacancy at Newcastle

'Enhanced' standard is pretty meaningless though. An applicant could have passed another TOC's 'enhanced' standard but find that they still have to sit an additional test(s) when applying to Northern as there is no single universal 'enhanced standard'.

 

[JDAWC]

No still enhanced standard

Screenshot attached of requirements section from trainee driver vacancy at Newcastle

Thanks mate

'Enhanced' standard is pretty meaningless though. An applicant could have passed another TOC's 'enhanced' standard but find that they still have to sit an additional test(s) when applying to Northern as there is no single universal 'enhanced standard'.

Yeah I guess the only meaning enhanced would have is if you apply for the same TOC within the 5 years of you passing providing their requirements haven’t changed.

 

[NorthDiver]

With Northern I didn't get the enhanced standard for the group bourdon, but all the other candidates failed the Psychometrics so they gave me the job anyway.

 

[eSTeeSCe]

Has anyone done the new format Northern Assessment day? I had a phone Intv last week and was put straight through to the assessment day in Liverpool tomorrow. As I understand it, it’s a variety of group tasks and if successful, an interview in the afternoon?
I’m not sure if they have done away with the dot test, gloop, computer assessment etc?

 

[LCC106]

They won’t have done away with those tests. They are the more important part of the assessments. Hope it goes well!

 

[Scotrail84]

Has anyone done the new format Northern Assessment day? I had a phone Intv last week and was put straight through to the assessment day in Liverpool tomorrow. As I understand it, it’s a variety of group tasks and if successful, an interview in the afternoon?
I’m not sure if they have done away with the dot test, gloop, computer assessment etc?

Was that definitely for a drivers position? Its very unlikely they will have done away with those tests, particularly the dot tests as this tests your concentration which is vital for train driving.

 

[Samsanbor]

Has anyone done the new format Northern Assessment day? I had a phone Intv last week and was put straight through to the assessment day in Liverpool tomorrow. As I understand it, it’s a variety of group tasks and if successful, an interview in the afternoon?
I’m not sure if they have done away with the dot test, gloop, computer assessment etc?

It will be a group assessment followed by the DMI if successful.
The following stage will be psychometric tests.

 

[nolypops83]

Has anyone done the new format Northern Assessment day? I had a phone Intv last week and was put straight through to the assessment day in Liverpool tomorrow. As I understand it, it’s a variety of group tasks and if successful, an interview in the afternoon?
I’m not sure if they have done away with the dot test, gloop, computer assessment etc?

No you still have to do the psychometric tests, this is just an extra step they've added in the recruitment process.

 

[eSTeeSCe]

Thanks for the answers, yes, it looks like another step in the process.
See what happens I guess.

 

[GPR]

Thanks for the answers, yes, it looks like another step in the process.
See what happens I guess.

Is it the Liverpool vacancies you have applied for?

 

[eSTeeSCe]

Is it the Liverpool vacancies you have applied for?

Yes.

 

[GPR]

Yes.

Thanks.

 

[nolypops83]

Thanks for the answers, yes, it looks like another step in the process.
See what happens I guess.

Good luck with it! I'm waiting for a date for mine in Manchester.

 

[5hunter]

With Northern I didn't get the enhanced standard for the group bourdon, but all the other candidates failed the Psychometrics so they gave me the job anyway.

Was that for a driving role or something else within a depot?

 

[MoraleSponge]

Was that for a driving role or something else within a depot?

Doubt it would have been for a mainline driver role, at least not recently anyway. If you don't meet the standard on the group bourdon then you won't even get to attempt the MMI. Usually on the test days there are a mix of people applying for different depots so it makes no difference if everyone fails on the day. They have enough applicants that they don't need to give someone a free pass.

 

[scrapy]

As has been said above its an extra step in the process mainly because they've had a lot of people where despite a good application form (which may or may not have actually been filled in by them!), have turned up for interview and been totally unsuitable for the role and 2 driver managers have had to sit there for an hour (plus time to write things up, and score the candidate) going through the whole process knowing they've got no chance of progressing that person any further, because for example they are under the influence of something! This is another stage to ensure that those that go through to interview are suitable.

Doubt it would have been for a mainline driver role, at least not recently anyway. If you don't meet the standard on the group bourdon then you won't even get to attempt the MMI. Usually on the test days there are a mix of people applying for different depots so it makes no difference if everyone fails on the day. They have enough applicants that they don't need to give someone a free pass.

Absolutely! Documentary evidence that the tests have been passed to the company's required standard also form part of the pack of evidence that a driver is suitable and of a required standard to drive when the company 'passes a driver out' to be competent to drive.

The standard each company requires a driver to achieve will have been determined by their driver standards department. This will form part of Northerns license to operate and probably part of the basis it gets insurance too.

 

[NorthDiver]

As has been said above its an extra step in the process mainly because they've had a lot of people where despite a good application form (which may or may not have actually been filled in by them!), have turned up for interview and been totally unsuitable for the role and 2 driver managers have had to sit there for an hour (plus time to write things up, and score the candidate) going through the whole process knowing they've got no chance of progressing that person any further, because for example they are under the influence of something! This is another stage to ensure that those that go through to interview are suitable.


Absolutely! Documentary evidence that the tests have been passed to the company's required standard also form part of the pack of evidence that a driver is suitable and of a required standard to drive when the company 'passes a driver out' to be competent to drive.

The standard each company requires a driver to achieve will have been determined by their driver standards department. This will form part of Northerns license to operate and probably part of the basis it gets insurance too.

I'm a mainline driver, most of the drivers don't have enchanced as it brought it at a later date, also if that was the case then the drivers going through training while the standards were changed would not be eligable. Minder feedback and DTM assessments are far stronger evidence than a bespoke requirement for one element of the psychometrics. Unless you are deemed some kind of risk or failed an element of training then standards won't be involved with you individually. During your Mod 7(final assement before you can driver alone) the DTM will sign you off as safe to drive and standards won't be involved in that decision (unless it's your second attempt).

The TOCs have public liability insurance with the ORR, if you have an incident then it will be checked if you hold a valid license, sign the route and traction, are medically fit and are in date for competencies. Passing the psychometrics is a legal requirement to gaining a european drivers license but they don't form any part of Northerns license to operate or part of the insurance. None of the old school drivers have done any psychometrics and once you are driving on your own, then your safety of line record matters and psychometrics are not considered. if you have 3 SPADs in your first 6 months, standards are not going to look at your psychometrics and say wow this guy got a really high group bourdon score we should let him back out again. Enhanced requirement is an in house decision and a filter for entry but once you are in they don't matter.

 

[NorthernTech]

I'm a mainline driver, most of the drivers don't have enchanced as it brought it at a later date, also if that was the case then the drivers going through training while the standards were changed would not be eligable. Minder feedback and DTM assessments are far stronger evidence than a bespoke requirement for one element of the psychometrics. Unless you are deemed some kind of risk or failed an element of training then standards won't be involved with you individually. During your Mod 7(final assement before you can driver alone) the DTM will sign you off as safe to drive and standards won't be involved in that decision (unless it's your second attempt).

The TOCs have public liability insurance with the ORR, if you have an incident then it will be checked if you hold a valid license, sign the route and traction, are medically fit and are in date for competencies. Passing the psychometrics is a legal requirement to gaining a european drivers license but they don't form any part of Northerns license to operate or part of the insurance. None of the old school drivers have done any psychometrics and once you are driving on your own, then your safety of line record matters and psychometrics are not considered. if you have 3 SPADs in your first 6 months, standards are not going to look at your psychometrics and say wow this guy got a really high group bourdon score we should let him back out again. Enhanced requirement is an in house decision and a filter for entry but once you are in they don't matter.

So you were a qualified driver going for a qualified driver position then?? If so, they don’t look at your psychometric tests as far as I am aware. It’s interview and safety of the line check. Some have you doing online tests as part of the application, possibly a Situational Judgement Test.

 

[NorthDiver]

No I got job offer with a FOC and was going to start working there, Northern told me I had to do the Group Bourdon again, but if I failed I would lose both jobs so I told them I would not retake them and risk not getting my key and thought that was the end of it. Two weeks later they called and said I could use my passes from the FOC . TOC seemed a lot better so I those that. In the training school in Leeds the HR sit in the office above the building and told me how I got it in. Very lucky.