Northern trialling PRT tickets from ticket machines

[skyhigh]

Northern have begun a pilot where station ticket machines will issue paper-roll tickets rather than credit card sized card tickets. The new tickets will be in the same style as those issued onboard and from EMR's 'smart kiosk'. Plain white paper roll will be used rather than orange stock.

All machines will retain a CCST printer for tickets that can't be sold using PRT, such as cross-London tickets. Ticket on Departure will also still be printed on CCST stock.

The initial trial includes stations around Bolton and Burley Park to Harrogate but will be extended in the coming weeks to cover 60 stations (one machine per station will be part of the trial).

 

[northwichcat]

Sounds like another case of we'll standardise everything by having two different standards.

 

[skyhigh]

Sounds like another case of we'll standardise everything by having two different standards.

Not quite sure what you mean by this? It's clear the eventual aim is to remove CCST when the London problem is sorted out.

 

[Haywain]

Not quite sure what you mean by this? It's clear the eventual aim is to remove CCST when the London problem is sorted out.

And moving the PRT format to plain paper is not a significant change.

 

[skyhigh]

And moving the PRT format to plain paper is not a significant change.

Indeed. The format is exactly the same as existing PRT, just on different colour paper.

For what it's worth, I've been told there is a discussion going on between RDG and TOCs about replacing the current PRT format with a more compact version that is closer to CCST size. Part of this will include discontinuing the use of orange/green paper roll and all PRT being printed on white paper.

 

[Haywain]

I've been told there is a discussion going on between RDG and TOCs about replacing the current PRT format with a more compact version that is closer to CCST size.

That's been going on for a while, and it is a very sensible thing to aim for.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's been going on for a while, and it is a very sensible thing to aim for.

The ideal would be it being identical to the e-ticket format, and so familiar.

 

[Haywain]

The ideal would be it being identical to the e-ticket format, and so familiar.

Not really, because an eTicket comes with the full itinerary separately, so PRT needs to spell things out differently.

 

[DelW]

Indeed. The format is exactly the same as existing PRT, just on different colour paper.

For what it's worth, I've been told there is a discussion going on between RDG and TOCs about replacing the current PRT format with a more compact version that is closer to CCST size. Part of this will include discontinuing the use of orange/green paper roll and all PRT being printed on white paper.

I've never understood why paper roll tickets are so large. It doesn't make much difference for ticket offices, but for portable machines used by conductors, I'd have though minimising the amount of paper used per ticket would have been an obvious benefit. When a group of us travel on the Heart of Wales and buy tickets on the train, we end up with yards of paper for a couple of half hour journeys.

 

[northwichcat]

I've never understood why paper roll tickets are so large. It doesn't make much difference for ticket offices, but for portable machines used by conductors, I'd have though minimising the amount of paper used per ticket would have been an obvious benefit. When a group of us travel on the Heart of Wales and buy tickets on the train, we end up with yards of paper for a couple of half hour journeys.

Surely the larger the ticket, the faster the paper needs replacing. Even for a ticket office it could be a nuisance to change the roll, despite there being room to store boxes of spares.

 

[DelW]

Surely the larger the ticket, the faster the paper needs replacing. Even for a ticket office it could be a nuisance to change the roll, despite there being room to store boxes of spares.

Agreed, but more of an issue for portable machines, making them heavier to carry than they need be, as well as possibly running out of paper earlier.

The unnecessarily large tickets are also more awkward to fold to fit a ticket wallet, though I accept that's just a minor annoyance.

 

[northwichcat]

The ideal would be it being identical to the e-ticket format, and so familiar.

The unnecessarily large tickets are also more awkward to fold to fit a ticket wallet, though I accept that's just a minor annoyance.

I wonder if they will decide to allow people to use their phones to scan in the ticket and to store a digital copy on there? If you might be using the return portion almost a month later and it's an expensive ticket, it would be a good insurance option.

 

[northernman]

Good evening, we are indeed trialling this format of ticket, and happy to receive feedback on this forum as always. The accreditation pilot runs on 10 machines until mid March then we roll out to a further 60 machines. A separate but related workstream is underway to reduce ticket size.

 

[RPI]

Perranwell TVM has been issuing these since it was installed!

 

[johntea]

I only really use the TVM these days to buy a ticket alongside PlusBus, presumably that means I'll still get both tickets on CCST

That Summer 2022 goal for converting PlusBus into a digital format is certainly dragging on now

 

[Adam Williams]

That Summer 2022 goal for converting PlusBus into a digital format is certainly dragging on now

All the work on the rail industry side is basically done and ready to go (and has been for ages)..



Just needs up-to-date software for the readers on the bus that can read them properly, as I understand it.

 

[omnicity4659]

All the work on the rail industry side is basically done and ready to go (and has been for ages)..

View attachment 153778

Just needs up-to-date software for the readers on the bus that can read them properly, as I understand it.

No reason why buses can't accept them as they are, we accept printed stock without scanning them.

Having actual PlusBus etickets would stop the select few who wave their standard station to station tickets at us drivers expecting a free ride

 

[Wallsendmag]

Northern have begun a pilot where station ticket machines will issue paper-roll tickets rather than credit card sized card tickets. The new tickets will be in the same style as those issued onboard and from EMR's 'smart kiosk'. Plain white paper roll will be used rather than orange stock.

All machines will retain a CCST printer for tickets that can't be sold using PRT, such as cross-London tickets. Ticket on Departure will also still be printed on CCST stock.

The initial trial includes stations around Bolton and Burley Park to Harrogate but will be extended in the coming weeks to cover 60 stations (one machine per station will be part of the trial).

These are very different to the EMR ones which are eTickets. These are the same as the S&B GA trial. Also includes Leeds.

Surely the larger the ticket, the faster the paper needs replacing. Even for a ticket office it could be a nuisance to change the roll, despite there being room to store boxes of spares.

All depends how large the roll is

 

[Haywain]

Surely the larger the ticket, the faster the paper needs replacing. Even for a ticket office it could be a nuisance to change the roll, despite there being room to store boxes of spares.

It's no different to having to restock a CCST printer.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Surely the larger the ticket, the faster the paper needs replacing. Even for a ticket office it could be a nuisance to change the roll, despite there being room to store boxes of spares.

Spare tickets really should be stored in a temperature controlled enviroment not a TVM. But this actually increases the number of tickets per roll by a worthwhile amount.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Spare tickets really should be stored in a temperature controlled enviroment not a TVM. But this actually increases the number of tickets per roll by a worthwhile amount.

Is it just using standard till roll or something thicker?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Is it just using standard till roll or something thicker?

Something thicker and from the same supplier as the GA trial.

 

[greatkingrat]

No reason why buses can't accept them as they are, we accept printed stock without scanning them.

Having actual PlusBus etickets would stop the select few who wave their standard station to station tickets at us drivers expecting a free ride

The problem is people may try and edit e-tickets by changing the date, knowing the barcode won't be scanned. That's a lot easier than trying to change the date on an orange card ticket.

 

[woody505]

That was the benefit of using the machine getting the smaller sized ticket. Too much hassle trying to keep the qr code from getting folded up all day.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Is it just using standard till roll or something thicker?

Trust me, there's no such thing as a standard till roll. I speak as someone who orders till roll-I've never got the same one twice!

 

[northwichcat]

No reason why buses can't accept them as they are, we accept printed stock without scanning them.

Having actual PlusBus etickets would stop the select few who wave their standard station to station tickets at us drivers expecting a free ride

It would need all bus drivers to be properly trained though. In areas where there's multi-operator tickets a lot of drivers will be used to thinking if it doesn't scan it's because someone's trying to use a cheaper operator specific ticket that's not valid on their services.

 

[xotGD]

Good evening, we are indeed trialling this format of ticket, and happy to receive feedback on this forum as always. The accreditation pilot runs on 10 machines until mid March then we roll out to a further 60 machines. A separate but related workstream is underway to reduce ticket size.

Tickets the size of credit cards fit nicely into a wallet.

Huge sheets of paper do not.

Making the tickets issued by ticket machines larger is a backward step.

 

[Haywain]

Tickets the size of credit cards fit nicely into a wallet.

Huge sheets of paper do not.

I manage to fit PRT tickets into my National Rail ticket/railcard wallet with just a simple fold. My money wallet already carries "huge sheets" of paper plastic. It really isn't the problem you want to make it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tickets the size of credit cards fit nicely into a wallet.

Huge sheets of paper do not.

Making the tickets issued by ticket machines larger is a backward step.

They just go in the notes bit.

 

[plugwash]

And moving the PRT format to plain paper is not a significant change.

Printing on plain paper essentially means that the only evidence of the tickets legitimacy is the Aztec code.

What will merseyrail and scotrail gaurds make of these new tickets?