• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Norwood Junction could be renamed

Status
Not open for further replies.

Clip

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,822
*I used 'could' as thats the title of story*

I have friends who live in South Norwood and they say that it is going to have lots of money spent on regeneration in the next few years so maybe theres substance to doing so to give it an identity

http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/Norwood-Junction-renamed/story-23020064-detail/story.html

NORWOOD Junction could be renamed South Norwood under Croydon Council plans.

Paul Scott, Labour councillor for Woodside, wants the name changed because there is nowhere on train maps bearing the area’s full name.

But SE25 historian John Hickman is vehemently against the proposal as he believes the name has an important place in local history.

But Cllr Scott said all of South Norwood’s councillors were in agreement that it would be a positive step towards the area’s regeneration and has already raised it at Croydon Council’s public transport liaison panel – of which he is a member.

A Transport for London spokesman, which is in charge of the station, said it had heard nothing from the council about the plans yet.

Cllr Scott said: “It’s in the very early stages. Whilst the name is known to local people, on any sort of transport map, South Norwood doesn’t appear.

“There aren’t that many stations which aren’t named after the area. This is about jobs and investment and it may be a small step but it is an important one.”

Cllr Scott also cited the example of Smitham station which was renamed Coulsdon Town in 2011.

But Mr Hickman, of Albert Road, said a book could be written about the history of Norwood Junction.

It was originally called Jolly Sailor station when it was first built in 1839 and then became Norwood Junction in 1846, not taking the name South Norwood because the area did not become known as such until the 1850s.

Mr Hickman said: “At the very beginning of the 20th century the Selhurst depot was among the three largest in the country. It was controlled from Norwood Junction. The station was an important place of employment especially for those living in John Street, Coventry Road, Sidney Road, Percy Road and Merton Road.”

He also pointed to the laws made as a result of events at Norwood Junction. He cited rail worker Stephen Gurr’s death in 1889 after a long shift, which led to Parliament making alterations in working practices.

Just two years later, a train crashed through the Portland Road bridge, leading to cast iron bridge building being forbidden in Britain.

Mr Hickman added: “The cost of a name change will run into tens of thousands of pounds what with timetables, tickets, maps, signage & other alterations. And for what? Just for a great station to become like so many others, a point on a compass.

“There’s no such postal address as Crystal Palace, but they aren’t changing their station’s name to Upper Norwood.

“Have the people been consulted? No. Do we want it? No.”



Read more: http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/...tory-23020064-detail/story.html#ixzz3Eq1knsQ1
Follow us: @CroydonAd on Twitter | croydonadvertiser on Facebook
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
41,366
Location
Yorks
Surely the answer is clear to everyone after reading the article.

Give it it's true and correct name of Jolly Sailor station :D:lol:
 

Clip

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,822
Dunno but there is a jolly silaor pub nearby on the high st.
 

physics34

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
3,908
well the area is south norwood, but i dont see the point of the renaming.
 

tsr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
7,400
Location
Between the parallel lines
It's a junction. It's very much in the Norwood area. Surely, then, it's hardly a misnomer. I'd stretch to "South Norwood Junction", but, even for me, that's pedantic.

Also, calling it "South Norwood" might lead to confusion with Norwood South Junction in the vicinity of the station, requiring more than just one name change (although I guess I may be making too much of that issue!).
 
Last edited:

Clip

Established Member
Joined
28 Jun 2010
Messages
10,822
well the area is south norwood, but i dont see the point of the renaming.

Regeneration is the name of the game. If you have a station named after the are people will obviously look on it more favourably as a place to move to. Yes they could look on a local map and see it there but its not something lots would do.

If you went to Crystal Palace also mentioned in the story you actually walk up the hill away from the station to the triangle which is really Upper Norwood yet poeople call it Crystal Palace. Confused the life out of me when I first started visiting the other year.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
Regeneration is the name of the game. If you have a station named after the are people will obviously look on it more favourably as a place to move to. Yes they could look on a local map and see it there but its not something lots would do.

If you went to Crystal Palace also mentioned in the story you actually walk up the hill away from the station to the triangle which is really Upper Norwood yet poeople call it Crystal Palace. Confused the life out of me when I first started visiting the other year.

Norwood Junction is just the name of a station and not the area around it, whereas Crystal Palace has been the name used by people for well over a century to describe the area within about a mile radius of that former building. Even today, five different London boroughs meet each other at a point and a local library is jointly run by two of those boroughs, which is, I believe, unique in London. Just to ruin my point, the library is known as the Upper Norwood Joint Library, but I think that's just a piece of officialdom. Local people would call the area a mile to the west around St. Michael's Church Upper Norwood and so do TfL!
 

steamybrian

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2010
Messages
1,852
Location
Kent
Born and brought up in Croydon and went to a school in South Norwood Hill by catching the bus to Norwood Junction station.
I agree that the area around the station is called South Norwood and have no objection to the name change.
The area around Crystal Palace station is called Upper Norwood.

People who complain are those that are really saying "well it has always been called that name and I do not want change"
 

Antman

Established Member
Joined
3 May 2013
Messages
6,840
Born and brought up in Croydon and went to a school in South Norwood Hill by catching the bus to Norwood Junction station.
I agree that the area around the station is called South Norwood and have no objection to the name change.
The area around Crystal Palace station is called Upper Norwood.

People who complain are those that are really saying "well it has always been called that name and I do not want change"

I know the area very well and I can't say that I have any strong opinion on a name change.

I would consider the area around Crystal Palace to be Crystal Palace (suprisingly enough;)) after all it is where the famous building once stood, I'd regard Crown Point and Beulah Hill area as Upper Norwood but each to our own opinion on that.
 

MichaelAMW

Member
Joined
18 Jun 2010
Messages
1,018
The station has been known as "Norwood Junction & South Norwood" in the past - whether that was the official name of the station I don't know but I have seen tickets bearing that name.
 

steamybrian

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2010
Messages
1,852
Location
Kent
The station has been known as "Norwood Junction & South Norwood" in the past - whether that was the official name of the station I don't know but I have seen tickets bearing that name.

Correct-- see attached
 

Attachments

  • scan0022.jpg
    scan0022.jpg
    667.4 KB · Views: 42

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
I know the area very well and I can't say that I have any strong opinion on a name change.

I would consider the area around Crystal Palace to be Crystal Palace (suprisingly enough;)) after all it is where the famous building once stood, I'd regard Crown Point and Beulah Hill area as Upper Norwood but each to our own opinion on that.

Completely agree with you about location of Upper Norwood. Interestingly South Norwood morphs into Upper Norwood without ever becoming straight Norwood, as it were. I suppose West Norwood would have best claim to being Norwood proper, not least because of the presence of Norwood Bus Garage, which has always had that name.
 

LLivery

Established Member
Joined
13 Jul 2014
Messages
1,585
Location
London
Coincidentally I was thinking that a name change would be reasonable the other day! South Norwood Junction or South Norwood, I'm not really fussed, just as long as its not stupid.

By the way does anyone know why Whittlesea hasn't been re-named (if you can call it that) to Whittlesey? Or why the station in Kingston-upon-Thames is just called Kingston but the station in Walton-on-Thames is Walton-on-Thames?
 

MichaelAMW

Member
Joined
18 Jun 2010
Messages
1,018
Completely agree with you about location of Upper Norwood. Interestingly South Norwood morphs into Upper Norwood without ever becoming straight Norwood, as it were. I suppose West Norwood would have best claim to being Norwood proper, not least because of the presence of Norwood Bus Garage, which has always had that name.

Well, following on from my earlier post, Crystal Palace was once called "Crystal Palace & Upper Norwood."
 
Last edited:

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
Just discovered the location of the real Norwood-it's in West London! I remembered a place called Norwood Green Southall-way. and looking it up on Wikipedia it's in the ancient Manor of Norwood. Probably just as well it doesn't have a station to confuse things.
 

nottsnurse

Member
Joined
1 May 2014
Messages
275
I used to live on Salters Hill, opposite Norwood Park and (locally at least) the area between Gipsy Hill and West Norwood was known as 'Norwood' (with Paxton Green and Crown Point also bordering the area).

As for changing the name of Norwood Junction, I'm not really fussed either way but perhaps advertising it as "for Selhurst Park" would be a good idea to help combat the laughable notion that Selhurst Park is one of the most difficult football grounds to get to in the country.
 

steamybrian

Established Member
Joined
26 Nov 2010
Messages
1,852
Location
Kent
......laughable notion that Selhurst Park is one of the most difficult football grounds to get to in the country.

The football ground has three stations within 15 minutes walk (Thornton Heath, Selhurst and Norwood Junction)
Buses stop on Selhurst Road about 100 yards south east of the ground
Buses stop on Whitehorse Lane -immediately outside the north east end of the ground.
Big difficulty is car parking on match days......!!!! A friend of mine who drives and then parks in a side road about one mile from the ground and walks.!!

There are many other grounds more difficult to get to...
 

nottsnurse

Member
Joined
1 May 2014
Messages
275
The football ground has three stations within 15 minutes walk (Thornton Heath, Selhurst and Norwood Junction)
Buses stop on Selhurst Road about 100 yards south east of the ground
Buses stop on Whitehorse Lane -immediately outside the north east end of the ground.
Big difficulty is car parking on match days......!!!! A friend of mine who drives and then parks in a side road about one mile from the ground and walks.!!

There are many other grounds more difficult to get to...

I know that (hence "laughable notion"), but it is still an oft-repeated comment from away fans that Selhurst Park is difficult to get to (despite the evidence you provided).
 

21C101

Established Member
Joined
19 Jul 2014
Messages
2,555
Whats wrong with its original name of Jolly Sailor?

mind you it might soon become Londons equivalent of Frierichstrasse with customs/passport controls in the booking given that South Norwood recenlty voted for independence from the UK.
 

maniacmartin

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
15 May 2012
Messages
5,416
Location
Croydon
Most people would realise that South Norwood and Norwood Junction are probably related without needing a rename. In fact, I would say it is already named after the place it is in.
 

physics34

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2013
Messages
3,908
The football ground has three stations within 15 minutes walk (Thornton Heath, Selhurst and Norwood Junction)
Buses stop on Selhurst Road about 100 yards south east of the ground
Buses stop on Whitehorse Lane -immediately outside the north east end of the ground.
Big difficulty is car parking on match days......!!!! A friend of mine who drives and then parks in a side road about one mile from the ground and walks.!!

There are many other grounds more difficult to get to...

yeh basically by road its one of the hardest to get to.

If you are coming from north it is hard and from the south its pretty hard too!!
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
yeh basically by road its one of the hardest to get to.

If you are coming from north it is hard and from the south its pretty hard too!!

IMO Whitehorse Road is one of the most horrible roads to drive down. When I am doing it I'm usually at the beginning or end of a journey of 300 miles plus involving two motorways, including M25, A and B roads, Croydon, etc, and there's almost always an incident or potential incident, even on the rare occasions when there are no roadworks. Cars just pull out of side roads, filling stations, etc in front of you, turn across in front of you without signal,etc, and park in the most ridiculous places at ridiculous angles. I'm quite used to driving in London (my first ever driving lesson included going round Hyde Park Corner in pre- traffic light days) but am always extra-vigilant down there!
 

ert47

Member
Joined
28 Feb 2010
Messages
688
IMO Whitehorse Road is one of the most horrible roads to drive down.

haha! Its the worst along Thornton Heath High Street - just around the corner from Whitehorse Road. You'd think double parking was bad - people triple park down there and dont bat an eyelid.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
14,671
haha! Its the worst along Thornton Heath High Street - just around the corner from Whitehorse Road. You'd think double parking was bad - people triple park down there and dont bat an eyelid.

Actually that mini-roundabout by High St/ Whitehorse is the most lethal - must have been created by someone with shares in an accident claim company.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top