In what way, even historically, was an ECML journey between Doncaster and York seen as a premium service, but one between Doncaster and Leeds, potentially on the same TOC, not?
While it's true that York - Leeds is charged at a premium, the
non-"premium" York - Hull fare is not cheap, at a whopping £25.20 for the lowest priced day return fare (avoiding Doncaster) for a poor quality service.
This is more costly than the expensive Leeds to York fare, so there should be no concerns about protecting the premiumness of Leeds to York!
Indeed due to TPE pricing policies, Hull to Leeds is actually
more a "premium" fare these days! But that's down to TPE abolising day returns, so not a like-for-like comparison (when comparing like-for-like, an Off Peak Return from York to Hull does cost more than Hull to Leeds, and certainly qualified under the old BR "reasonableness" test).
York to Doncaster is charged at the maximum premium LNER can get away with, however LNER are constrained by the York to Sheffield fare. Indeed in the past, the previous ICEC franchise holder did attempt to ramp up York to Doncaster to more than York to Sheffield however it was pointed out on this forum that people could simply buy Sheffield fares, and finish 'short'.
So yes York to Doncaster is charged at a premium, albeit not as much of a premium as LNER want to charge. York to Leeds is also charged at a premium, but again TPE can't ramp it up too much because of being undercut by Northern Only fares. In both cases, there are longer distance fares which undercut the premium fares, but obviously I can't divulge those here, as they would be placed under threat, if so.
York to Hull is a very expensive journey for the poor quality, and considering the cities are only 34 miles apart. The 'direct' trains go a long way round and take just over an hour (if you're lucky). Going via Doncaster makes the journey even more expensive, but the option absolutely should be there.
Going back to York to Doncaster, LNER continue to charge a premium in terms of the single fare costing £22.60 after 0939, and £25.10 before that. The only way to avoid the premium is by purchasing a return, and the only reason LNER offer returns is because otherwise people would buy Sheffield returns and start/finish short. LNER would love to charge £22.60 each way if they possibly could, but are constrained by other operators. No doubt LNER are keen for DfT to instruct other operators to abolish returns. But that's for another thread.
Summary:
- York - Doncaster is expensive, but not as expensive as LNER want it to be
- York - Leeds is expensive, but TPE do have competition from Northern
- York - Hull is very slow and expensive avoiding Doncaster and is extortionate via Doncaster
- Leeds - Hull is expensive and TPE have made it more so by abolishing Day Returns; TPE would be trying the same tactic for York - Leeds if they could get away with it.
Although Hull to York would generally be done direct, it does not make sense to completely bar travel via Doncaster. There is perhaps an argument that there should be an even cheaper fare to avoid Leeds and Doncaster, but sadly there isn't. Northern won't introduce one because they would just see that as a reduction in revenue. People on a tight budget can do the journey for a tiny fraction of the cost by bus, which is probably more attractive from suburb to suburb if on the route, but is slow for city centre to city centre.
- The fares we see as expensive are seen as 'too cheap' by the DfT/TOCs.
- The fares we see as about right are seen as way too cheap by DfT/TOCs
- The fares we see as really expensive are seen as 'about right' by DfT/TOCs.
The root issue here is that our fares are expensive; this is not going to get better, it will only get worse. Sites such as the forum's ticketing site will try to find ways round it, where we can, and while we can!
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