Nottingham 'Bus War'

[harry42]

New Yourbus Livery...very smart:
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New Nottingham Coaches 17 TImetable out now

 

[bussnapperwm]

New Yourbus Livery...very smart:
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New Nottingham Coaches 17 TImetable out now

Is kangaroo valid on Nottingham coaches?

 

[Pe251lz]

THE NEW 17 lol. I love it! Back with yet another reworking of the route after having a short rest joking aside I wish it all the luck....

 

[Qwerty133]

THE NEW 17 lol. I love it! Back with yet another reworking of the route after having a short rest joking aside I wish it all the luck....

Just about useable for pensioners, no use for anyone else, and with the payments operators receive from bus passes I give it 3 months...

 

[Robertj21a]

Just about useable for pensioners, no use for anyone else, and with the payments operators receive from bus passes I give it 3 months...

In which case they will have to cancel it formally in about 4 weeks time.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Y28 cut back to Burnside Green from next week. Is this the beginning of the end?
Cuts the vehicle requirement from 4 to 3.

http://www.catchyourbus.co.uk/y28/index.html

 

[nottinghamcity]

Y28 cut back to Burnside Green from next week. Is this the beginning of the end?
Cuts the vehicle requirement from 4 to 3.

I didn't spot this on VOSA (and I don't miss much!)
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I didn't spot this on VOSA (and I don't miss much!)

 

[trentside]

I'm surprised they've perceived this long with the Y28, it has seen so many changes that I'm amazed there is any customer base still left.

 

[TomJ93]

Is there a good place to compare fares/routes? The variety of operators and offers has had be confused the times I've needed a bus. Some have £1 student deals, some have mango and then NCT (?) have bugger all and are the ones I ended up using!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MCR247]

NCT have £1 student as well on the 34/36/28/31 AFAIK

 

[edwin_m]

Just to confuse things further, NCT tickets will no longer be interavailable with their Link bus routes from 1 March.

https://www.nctx.co.uk/2014/12/ticket-changes-from-1-march-2015-on-linkbus-network/

These routes are intended to "link" places not served by the commercial network, so most passengers using them as part of a longer journey will now have to pay twice or buy the much more expensive Kangaroo ticket. I'm not sure if this is driven by council budget cuts or is another ramification of the Competition Commission, but either way yet another useful integrated transport feature has been sacrificed on the alter of deregulation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just to confuse things further, NCT tickets will no longer be interavailable with their Link bus routes from 1 March.

I'm not sure if this is driven by council budget cuts or is another ramification of the Competition Commission, but either way yet another useful integrated transport feature has been sacrificed on the alter of deregulation.

If it's budgetary, it has nothing to do with deregulation

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Its a new policy by the city council apparently. There is announcement on their website according to the bus company. Sounds like the L14 & L53 are going commercial so will not be affected.

 

[Deerfold]

If it's budgetary, it has nothing to do with deregulation

Except that before deregulation any socially neccesary services would have just been the responsibility of NCT.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Actually. Skills also ran some 'socially necessary services' before deregulation within the city. There was a route from Bulwell to Wollaton coop and Bulwell to Kimberley and I'm sure another. Think they were numbered in the 113/4 area. They had something to do with NCT taking over the running of the evening, Saturday afternoon & Sunday evening Bulwell to Bestwood Village service, that Skills had inherited from Makemsons of Bulwell, that Skills were loosing money on. Must admit not familiar with any others pre 1986.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Except that before deregulation any socially neccesary services would have just been the responsibility of NCT.

....but if they don't have the money....

 

[edwin_m]

....but if they don't have the money....

I'd argue that with a properly integrated network there would be more passengers and more revenue, but we've been over all that previously on other topics and failed to agree.

 

[Jordeh]

Trent Barton's commercial director Alex Hornby moving to Blazefield Bus Group (part of Transdev).

http://www.busandcoach.com/news/articles/hornby-to-switch-to-blazefield/

Alex Hornby has been appointed managing director of Blazefield Bus Group with effect from 2 February 2015. Hornby moves from Trent Barton, while Blazefield’s Martin Gilbert transfers to the position of executive chairman.

“We are delighted that Alex will be joining Transdev, bringing with him his fantastic track record of success,” says Nigel Stevens CEO of parent company Transdev UK and Ireland. “Alex will bring to Transdev his past experience developing Trent Barton into a benchmark business within the UK bus industry and, prior to that, his operational experience with some of the leading UK bus operators. We are confident that Alex's combination of experience, passion and creativity are exceptionally well matched to the ambition that Transdev has for Blazefield and that he is the ideal appointment to take the business on the next stage of its evolution.”

Hornby joined Trent Barton in 2010 as commercial director having started out as a graduate trainee with Stagecoach and then worked at Go-Ahead’s Blue Line business.

Gilbert’s role will see him overseeing business development of the Blazefield business and on other projects for Transdev, in both the UK and internationally.

 

[Mugby]

Trent Barton's commercial director Alex Hornby moving to Blazefield Bus Group (part of Transdev).

Thank heavens for that!

Let him take his crackpot, soap powder style marketing ideas with him and let's hope TB appoint someone who will do the necessary and introduce double deckers on busiest routes, like all the sensible large groups do, to eliminate standing and cease leaving people behind.

They may then become a reasonably good bus company, if not the really good bus company which they purport to be.

 

[Robertj21a]

Thank heavens for that!

Let him take his crackpot, soap powder style marketing ideas with him and let's hope TB appoint someone who will do the necessary and introduce double deckers on busiest routes, like all the sensible large groups do, to eliminate standing and cease leaving people behind.

They may then become a reasonably good bus company, if not the really good bus company which they purport to be.

I have to largely agree. He may well be quite good at the marketing side of things but there's been far too much hype without equivalent action that would benefit the existing passengers. For some strange reason, Wellglade (but Trent in particular) seem hell bent on running buses with hardly any room on them for anybody else. It's a good sign that the demand is clearly there, so why not put out a few more buses on the busier routes ?

 

[Deerfold]

Thank heavens for that!

Let him take his crackpot, soap powder style marketing ideas with him and let's hope TB appoint someone who will do the necessary and introduce double deckers on busiest routes, like all the sensible large groups do, to eliminate standing and cease leaving people behind.

They may then become a reasonably good bus company, if not the really good bus company which they purport to be.

I wonder what'll happen to my buses then. I've only just started getting the odd double decker on my route...

 

[ag51ruk]

Thank heavens for that!

Let him take his crackpot, soap powder style marketing ideas with him and let's hope TB appoint someone who will do the necessary and introduce double deckers on busiest routes, like all the sensible large groups do, to eliminate standing and cease leaving people behind.

They may th a reasonably good bus company, if not the really good bus company which they purport to be.

They may do this, but the single deck only policy has been in effect at Trent from well before Alex joined - from when the original Rainbow routes were introduced, they said that market research showed that most people preferred single to double deck buses (and I think that is true). The recent trial of a decker on the Swift to Ashbourne, which ultimately came to nothing and has seen an N+D duplicate on ths busiest service instead, suggests this policy won't change any time soon

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

They may do this, but the single deck only policy has been in effect at Trent from well before Alex joined - from when the original Rainbow routes were introduced, they said that market research showed that most people preferred single to double deck buses (and I think that is true).

When were the last new deckers to join Trent Barton? 1990?

 

[Mugby]

When were the last new deckers to join Trent Barton? 1990?

Quite possibly.

I didn't say Hornby introduced the single deck policy but he's certainly perpetuated it. I've said before that market research can be spun to provide whatever answers you want and I don't accept that the majority of people would have said they prefer single deckers.

Ask a passenger who's just been left behind what they would prefer!

 

[Robertj21a]

Quite possibly.

I didn't say Hornby introduced the single deck policy but he's certainly perpetuated it. I've said before that market research can be spun to provide whatever answers you want and I don't accept that the majority of people would have said they prefer single deckers.

Ask a passenger who's just been left behind what they would prefer!

Yes, that policy decision was made very many years ago and had nothing to do with Alex. It was also made well before many operators realised the benefits of having 'quality' double deck vehicles branded for selected routes - Stagecoach Gold, Arriva Sapphire etc. To me, that approach would now be highly appropriate for a company such as Trent !

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Quite possibly.

I didn't say Hornby introduced the single deck policy but he's certainly perpetuated it. I've said before that market research can be spun to provide whatever answers you want and I don't accept that the majority of people would have said they prefer single deckers.

Ask a passenger who's just been left behind what they would prefer!

Think there's two different things at play here.....

Do passengers prefer single deckers? On the whole, yes. INDEPENDENT research suggests that many don't like deckers as there are safety fears (perhaps unwarranted), anti social behaviour (including the issue of people smoking on top decks - it does still happen) and most pointedly, the fact that two of the main sets of bus users are pensioners and young mothers, neither of whom fancy dragging themselves and their offspring/purchases upstairs.

On the other hand, if you're going to follow a single deck only path, then that's fine but you must provide sufficient capacity to service that demand. It's been a while since I left the East Midlands so can't comment on the TB services and their level of overloading.

 

[radamfi]

Yes, that policy decision was made very many years ago and had nothing to do with Alex. It was also made well before many operators realised the benefits of having 'quality' double deck vehicles branded for selected routes - Stagecoach Gold, Arriva Sapphire etc. To me, that approach would now be highly appropriate for a company such as Trent !

Unless you are running tri-axles, you can't put double glazing or proper air conditioning into a double decker, pretty basic requirements for something supposedly touted as 'quality'.
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Do passengers prefer single deckers? On the whole, yes. INDEPENDENT research suggests that many don't like deckers as there are safety fears (perhaps unwarranted), anti social behaviour (including the issue of people smoking on top decks - it does still happen)

Until the nationwide smoking ban, smoking on the top decks (whilst banned by most companies since at least the early 90s) was very common in certain areas, such as around Manchester, but virtually unheard of in London. Anti-social behaviour in the north of England especially was a big issue at the time and coupled with dramatic patronage falls after deregulation, introducing single decks was a no-brainer. Indeed, GM Buses North (for example), marketed these new single deckers as a step change in quality from the previous double deckers, and had double glazing as a bonus.

 

[tbone]

I for one think that Alex has had an incredibly successful tenure at Trent Barton. It is important to remember that Geoff Counsell has been MD all the time that he has been there, and Brian King and Ian Morgan remain in control of Wellglade. I would suggest that the four share the same vision for the company and that policies such as branding (or 'spin' for those desperate to fault them) and the non-use of double deckers have been around since the 90s, some 10 years before Alex arrived.

The new branding has resulted in buses looking far newer and refurbishments have not been about slapping a new coat of paint on but seriously improving the insides aswell. The branding on the refurbished Zoom Solars makes them look newer than the brand new Enviro 200s on Transpeak, in my opinion. But on the inside, customers have got higer backed, more comfortable seats as well as power sockets and free wifi. It's the same story on the Sixes, yes they look newer but they're also a lot more comfortable on the inside. The application of branding at bus stops and stations has made them look far more appealing, no doubt encouraging bus use and increasing custom and a return on the investment. Given that they're a business, I'd imagine that they see this as a good thing.

There have been some pretty major improvements over the past four years. Early on in Alex's tenure, the Red Arrow went to every ten minutes and this is a route that has gone from strength to strength, despite direct competition. The One has been extended to Uttoxeter to become Swift and has seen massive passenger growth. The H1, Ilkeston Flyer and Skylink Derby have all seen frequency increases.

Three new routes have been started, Rapid One, Zoom and Skylink Nottingham. The latter two have recently seen capacity increases whilst the former has encouraged modal change from the car to bus. Whilst Alex is not in chrage, he has made himself known to key stakeholder groups and has listened and identified where the demmand is. All three of these routes have provided quicker alternatives to current routes and have proven to be very popular.

Another major project overseen by Alex was the new website, including live departure times. Some may pass it off as 'spin' but it's easy to navigate (on all platforms) and makes waiting around at the stop a thing of the past. THe firm's social media has also won awards and Alex himself has been known to log onto the company accounts out of office hours to reply to customers.

Like I said at the start, Alex isn't directly responsible for everything that has happened over the past four years but I do believe that the company is in a better place now than it was before he came.

Alex takes with him experience from a company that strives to be the best aswell as a very good relationship with Ray Stenning, who Blazefield also use. Given the size of Blazefield, and the step up in terms of position, I dare say that those that know the industry well see a lot of potential in him and his ability to run a bus company. He will be Trent Barton's loss but very much Blazefield's gain.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Unless you are running tri-axles, you can't put double glazing or proper air conditioning into a double decker, pretty basic requirements for something supposedly touted as 'quality'.
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Until the nationwide smoking ban, smoking on the top decks (whilst banned by most companies since at least the early 90s) was very common in certain areas, such as around Manchester, but virtually unheard of in London. Anti-social behaviour in the north of England especially was a big issue at the time and coupled with dramatic patronage falls after deregulation, introducing single decks was a no-brainer. Indeed, GM Buses North (for example), marketed these new single deckers as a step change in quality from the previous double deckers, and had double glazing as a bonus.

That's the point. Most firms banned smoking in the late 1980s on their buses but it still takes place. I was on a First Bristol Gemini earlier this year and the local schoolkids were clearly stressed after a long day, so sparked up a joint on the top deck.

There were lots of reasons for single decks being selected by firms. Streamlining networks and concentrating on key corridors meant improved headways, there was the rush to minibus networks that replaced deckers and said minibuses were then replaced with midibuses, and the practical aspects such as vandalism etc.

Some respected individuals such as Bob Hind were messianic in their pursuit of single decks. The upshot is that a fully single deck fleet is not an issue as long as capacity matches demand, and that the majority of passengers prefer single decks for those reasons of security/anti social behaviour, and accessibility.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Unless you are running tri-axles, you can't put double glazing or proper air conditioning into a double decker, pretty basic requirements for something supposedly touted as 'quality'..

No air conditioning on the new Rainbow One buses, apparently too expensive to run.

On frequency levels I was told at a meeting between our village and Trent in 1996 following bus cuts, that the main core of the Rainbow One was to be increased from 10 minutes to 7/8. Eighteen years later we have new shiny buses, that are overcrowded and regularly leave customers standing at bus stops, just like it used to be before deregulation! No change there then....