Notts and Derby discussion

[JMcD99]

Really? Are you sure you saw Enviro 400 1404 in green and blue?

Indeed. Looks far better in that colour than the black.

 

[Trainman40083]

Indeed. Looks far better in that colour than the black.

51 has gone for painting now, in place of said 1404.

 

[JD2168]

Really? Are you sure you saw Enviro 400 1404 in green and blue?

That looks much better than the black based version.

 

[Trainman40083]

That looks much better than the black based version.

It certainly does.

 

[liamf656]

Not sure which thread to mention this in, but E400 number 13 and Omnidekka number 40 have both been on loan to TM Travel recently

11, 12 and 13 are all at TM Travel now as loans to cover bus shortages. Looks like Derby are also helping with maintenance with Solo 1169 receiving work there

I've been told that 1404 may be a one off in green and blue, as the rest of the ex Lothian E400s for N&D and TM will still be painted black so that such loans are less noticeable. The perks of sharing an owner company

 

[Trainman40083]

11, 12 and 13 are all at TM Travel now as loans to cover bus shortages. Looks like Derby are also helping with maintenance with Solo 1169 receiving work there

I've been told that 1404 may be a one off in green and blue, as the rest of the ex Lothian E400s for N&D and TM will still be painted black so that such loans are less noticeable. The perks of sharing an owner company

And just in case anyone does think any of the 1401 to 1406 batch are working for TM Travel, all except 1405 were on Meadow Road today.

 

[m79900]

11, 12 and 13 are all at TM Travel now as loans to cover bus shortages. Looks like Derby are also helping with maintenance with Solo 1169 receiving work there

I've been told that 1404 may be a one off in green and blue, as the rest of the ex Lothian E400s for N&D and TM will still be painted black so that such loans are less noticeable. The perks of sharing an owner company

Why don't they just unify all of Wellglade under one 'Trentbarton' or 'Trent buses' brand? It'd make everything a lot simpler.

 

[Trainman40083]

Why don't they just unify all of Wellglade under one 'Trentbarton' or 'Trent buses' brand? It'd make everything a lot simpler.

Maybe all the subsidiary companies are set in a way that if one was to go bust, it would not affect the others. We have Trent Motor Traction, Barton Buses, Kinchbus, Notts and Derby and TM Travel all in different segments. Then you have all the other Wellglade companies that don't run buses.

 

[Surreyman]

Maybe all the subsidiary companies are set in a way that if one was to go bust, it would not affect the others. We have Trent Motor Traction, Barton Buses, Kinchbus, Notts and Derby and TM Travel all in different segments. Then you have all the other Wellglade companies that don't run buses.

Looking at the 'GOV" operators licence site, I note that they have duplicate Ops licences for some depots - Derby has 4 - for Trent, Barton, Notts & Derby & Midland General.
Langley Mill 3, One for Trent, one for Barton and one for Notts & Derby.
Can only imagine that this is historical?

 

[m79900]

Maybe all the subsidiary companies are set in a way that if one was to go bust, it would not affect the others. We have Trent Motor Traction, Barton Buses, Kinchbus, Notts and Derby and TM Travel all in different segments. Then you have all the other Wellglade companies that don't run buses.

So is Barton Buses still legally a seperate entity to Trent? Do they have different legal lettering? Presumably Derby routes are Trent while Nottingham ones are Barton?

 

[Trainman40083]

So is Barton Buses still legally a seperate entity to Trent? Do they have different legal lettering? Presumably Derby routes are Trent while Nottingham ones are Barton?

Nottingham is Barton. Derby, Langley Mill and Sutton are Trent. Trent and Barton have different accounts. Not looked at the legal lettering, but they certainly used to. Someone will know

 

[Steve440]

Maybe all the subsidiary companies are set in a way that if one was to go bust, it would not affect the others. We have Trent Motor Traction, Barton Buses, Kinchbus, Notts and Derby and TM Travel all in different segments. Then you have all the other Wellglade companies that don't run buses.

It's all probably to do with driver's pay and conditions. Notts & Derby particularly was at one time a low-cost unit.

 

[m79900]

Nottingham is Barton. Derby, Langley Mill and Sutton are Trent. Trent and Barton have different accounts. Not looked at the legal lettering, but they certainly used to. Someone will know

That completely passed me by.

 

[Trainman40083]

Looking at the 'GOV" operators licence site, I note that they have duplicate Ops licences for some depots - Derby has 4 - for Trent, Barton, Notts & Derby & Midland General.
Langley Mill 3, One for Trent, one for Barton and one for Notts & Derby.
Can only imagine that this is historical?

Bear in mind, Barton Buses has some i4 and Indigo services that work from Derby. Midland General used to be the Door to Door subsidiary of Notts and Derby. Langley Mill. At one time certain Notts and Derby schools used to run out of the Mill. Maybe Barton used to own the 15 service. But all I have is a memory, someone may be more accurate.

It's all probably to do with driver's pay and conditions. Notts & Derby particularly was at one time a low-cost unit.

I would think Notts and Derby, at one time, would have had more "fixed" staff holidays, like when schools were off. Nowadays you can see Notts and Derby drivers , driving for Trentbarton as and when needed.

Looking at the 'GOV" operators licence site, I note that they have duplicate Ops licences for some depots - Derby has 4 - for Trent, Barton, Notts & Derby & Midland General.
Langley Mill 3, One for Trent, one for Barton and one for Notts & Derby.
Can only imagine that this is historical?

I meant to add. You might also get different licences if depots fall in different traffic areas, say North West (Derbyshire) and North East (Notts) unless I have dreamt that too .

 

[liamf656]

I've been told that 1404 may be a one off in green and blue, as the rest of the ex Lothian E400s for N&D and TM will still be painted black so that such loans are less noticeable. The perks of sharing an owner company

Correction - 1401/2/3/6 will be painted blue and green to match 1404. Looks like the black livery will no longer be applied

 

[PickleInRail]

I wonder what's happening with 1405

 

[Trainman40083]

I wonder what's happening with 1405

All will become clear when it returns.

 

[YX73OUB]

Yes separate entities.

My15 retains some Barton long standing drivers at Langley Mill and once upon a time there was the 18 & 32 operating under Barton Buses from Langley Mill after Ilkeston closed.

New starters on my15 are now Trent drivers.

So yes legal letterings are either Trent motor traction company Ltd or Barton Buses Ltd dependent on the operating centre.

Drivers are the same, too, though if a route transfers between depots (ie Barton to Trent or Trent to Barton conditions are retained if the driver transfers with the route.)

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes separate entities.

My15 retains some Barton long standing drivers at Langley Mill and once upon a time there was the 18 & 32 operating under Barton Buses from Langley Mill after Ilkeston closed.

New starters on my15 are now Trent drivers.

So yes legal letterings are either Trent motor traction company Ltd or Barton Buses Ltd dependent on the operating centre.

Drivers are the same, too, though if a route transfers between depots (ie Barton to Trent or Trent to Barton conditions are retained if the driver transfers with the route.)

Thanks for that clarification. Was the former 21, Nottingham to Ilkeston via Kirk Hallam, also "Barton"?

 

[YX73OUB]

Thanks for that clarification. Was the former 21, Nottingham to Ilkeston via Kirk Hallam, also "Barton"?

No the 21 was Trent Motor Traction

 

[GusB]

This is the Notts and Derby thread. Keep it on topic, please.

 

[Mollman]

Why don't they just unify all of Wellglade under one 'Trentbarton' or 'Trent buses' brand? It'd make everything a lot simpler.

I seem to recall that at one stage Trent Barton was the premium brand only doing commercial work and presumably higher cost. Notts & Derby were the lower cost operator which did tendered work. TM is geography separate in South Yorkshire. Midland General if I recall was revived to compete with the operators who started to compete with TB

 

[SSmith2009]

Midland General if I recall was revived to compete with the operators who started to compete with TB

Yes it was as the BargainBus routes against Premiere buses using the older Dennis Darts.

 

[Newbiedriver]

I seem to recall that at one stage Trent Barton was the premium brand only doing commercial work and presumably higher cost. Notts & Derby were the lower cost operator which did tendered work. TM is geography separate in South Yorkshire. Midland General if I recall was revived to compete with the operators who started to compete with TB

Do they actually do any work in Notts as the name suggests? They just seem to operate from here in Derby.

 

[YX73OUB]

I seem to recall that at one stage Trent Barton was the premium brand only doing commercial work and presumably higher cost. Notts & Derby were the lower cost operator which did tendered work. TM is geography separate in South Yorkshire. Midland General if I recall was revived to compete with the operators who started to compete with TB

Midland General was actually revived to operate a few services in and around Ashfield originally.

Ref work done in Notts, notts + derby carry out a lot of railway replacement & tram replacement in Nottinghamshire, but you never know where and when they'll pop on another tender / run, that's the nature of their operation.

 

[liamf656]

Do they actually do any work in Notts as the name suggests? They just seem to operate from here in Derby.

They used to have a lot of work into Nottinghamshire, lesser so nowadays but they'll still do private contracts and rail replacement into Nottingham

I seem to recall that at one stage Trent Barton was the premium brand only doing commercial work and presumably higher cost. Notts & Derby were the lower cost operator which did tendered work. TM is geography separate in South Yorkshire. Midland General if I recall was revived to compete with the operators who started to compete with TB

To add to that Kinchbus was named as the Loughborough operation as Trent had bought out the GK Kinch business, however the Trent/Barton names were damaged in Loughborough so the Kinchbus name stayed as it was familiar and popular. Nowadays it's just an extension of trentbarton with buses/drivers and tickets crossing through both

Notts and Derby and TM are more separate than TB/Kinch but seem to always help one another out (as well as TB buses being exchanged back and forth).

 

[bringiton]

Nowadays it's just an extension of trentbarton with buses/drivers and tickets crossing through both

As well as kinchbus vehicles being able to use trentbartons depots.

 

[SSmith2009]

As well as kinchbus vehicles being able to use trentbartons depots.

Same way a few Skylink (Notts) and indigo (when it was known as rainbow5) vehicles were based at Loughborough depot until a few years ago.

 

[bringiton]

Same way a few Skylink (Notts) and indigo (when it was known as rainbow5) vehicles were based at Loughborough depot until a few years ago.

Yeah i saw a picture on kinchbus website the other day I think it was of a skylink notts bus at the depot

 

[olliethe153]

Does anyone have any idea if the University services are closed door? I presume not since on the timetable displayed on the Trent website it doesn't state anything. Interesting how the Unibus services are shown on their websites but not N&D's own.
As a side note, their school services - Benedict's & Friesland school, apparently are not closed door according to the notes section on the timetable PDFs, which strikes me as weird.