Nuclear Trains and Timetables

[Class 37]

Hi. Firstly, sorry but iv been away working ect sine my last post. {Years ago}

Second, i recieved all the relevant E.mails. Its nice to see the website still here

Thirdly-Sorry if iv put this thread in the wrong section. Not sure WHERE to put it.

Right, on with the show. Living in Edinburgh, i see the Nuclear trains pass our flat, heading westwards. They're usually pulled by to Class 37's with the DRS livery. I was wondering if its possible to obtain Timetables for this service??? They ususally pass through on a Wednesday or Thursday but not always regular.

Any help would be grand.

 

[GB]

I could be wrong, but I doubt that timings for nuclear trains would be made available to the public.

 

[2030720310]

they probably won't put them on the public domain for security reasons. I might be wrong though!!

 

[HSTfan!!!]

I don't think they are made public. I wonder if a freedom of information request would yield anything?? Seems to be quite random times in the night when I've seen any.

 

[David]

The timings for nuclear and MoD trains are in TRUST, but they are subject to the Official Secrets Act (as far as I'm aware anyway), so the times can't be published.

 

[Class 37]

Ye, thats what i thought. Worth a try though. Thanks.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

The timings for nuclear and MoD trains are in TRUST, but they are subject to the Official Secrets Act (as far as I'm aware anyway), so the times can't be published.

it's not exactly difficult to get to a TRUST terminal which is worrying... I know ours can be unattended with the public being able to reach it for much of the day... knowing what to do with it on the other hand!

 

[87015]

The timings for nuclear and MoD trains are in TRUST, but they are subject to the Official Secrets Act (as far as I'm aware anyway), so the times can't be published.

They appear on plenty of gen groups so I don't think they can be covered by that, because otherwise everyone who has TRUST access would have to sign it! Perhaps those DRS staff that input them are 'under oath' though. I'm fairly sure the times are on www.scot-rail.co.uk but its down at the moment, although the trains by nature run fairly erratically and irregularly. A couple of yahoo-groups might be worth signing up to, not sure what the local ones are up there though.

 

[nedchester]

Timings are usually in Freightmaster (as far as I know).

I think we're getting a bit paranoid about these trains.

Here is Cheshire there is a regular working from Crewe to Valley by DRS with Flasks from Wylfa Nuclear power station ( goes down early morning returning late afternoon) . The train frequently appears on gen lists so that people can go out and phot it.

See:

http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nwgoods.htm

Look at the DRS Flask traffic bit.

 

[a22book]

Here's the timetable from 1996

www.greenpeace.org.uk/MultimediaFiles/Live/FullReport/7848.pdf

 

[jopsuk]

Wasn't there a time when nuclear trains carried armed guards?

 

[jon0844]

Cue a question about whether you can ride on it with an ALR.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Wasn't there a time when nuclear trains carried armed guards?

don't think so, there's not much that you can do with a nuclear flask, it's largely indestructible and bloody heavy

 

[Saltleyman]

A few years ago I was the driver on a special train which was carrying armed guards,the train conveyed a nuclear re-actor from a submarine ,from Plymouth to Fastlane.I worked this train from Landor St.Jcn (Saltley) to York Yards.
At about the same time (1970's) we used to work bullion trains from Lawley Street to London,again conveying armed guards.

 

[gordonthemoron]

actually, there may be armed guards in the rear cab of the loco (BNFL armed police)

 

[87015]

actually, there may be armed guards in the rear cab of the loco (BNFL armed police)

Certainly not on the normal 'spent fuel' trains which make up the majority of workings to/from Sellafield. If they run with armed guard then they have two Mk2 escort coaches to ride in, think some of it is fuel for the submarines which goes down to Rosyth.

 

[43106]

I used to spot trains at Seascale (next station south of Sellafield) in the mid-1960sand trains carrying nuclear material (used or unused) went through at fairly random times. I'm moderately sure that they were never timetabled, provided they didn't interfere with the Barrow - Whitehaven - Carlisle service. I did read somewhere that running times for nuclear trains are NOT available to the Joe Public, which is quite understandable. I never saw any non-BR staff on any nuclear train, let alone armed guards, but they were different days then.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I never saw any non-BR staff on any nuclear train, let alone armed guards, but they were different days then.

How do you know that armed guards were not dressed in BR uniform?

 

[33056]

Never heard of any armed guards on the "normal" nuke trains; as Saltleyman mentions, the non BNFL ones sometimes do come with armed guards.

Regarding the trains through Edinburgh, if they are anything like the ones we have "down south", the actual day of running is not constant and gets changed round from time to time.

 

[moonrakerz]

The risks involved in moving this stuff by rail are totally negligible.
As as already been pointed out the flasks are incredibly heavy, you would need a huge amount of specialist equipment to even get into it. To do anything with the contents would require the use of a Sellafield and a few thousand people !

A lot of alarmist and incorrect info is spread on this subject:
Nuclear "re-actors" are NOT transported by rail from Plymouth to Fastlane (sic)
Rosyth hasn't refuelled a submarine for years.
Nuclear weapons have armed guards, usually Royal Marines. This would also apply to weapons grade material in transit, probably MoD Police in attendance there.

I remember seeing a headline in an evening paper saying "H bomb convoy in motorway blaze drama".
The actual story concerned a weapons convoy on the M3. As it passed down the motorway it passed a car on fire on the hard shoulder. One of the two fire engines in the convoy, stopped briefly, extinguished the fire and carried on.
I suppose it sold a few more papers !!

 

[jon0844]

Given time, I am sure PCSOs will be asked to protect future movements...

 

[moonrakerz]

Given time, I am sure PCSOs will be asked to protect future movements...

The mind boggles ...........!

 

[GB]

The risks involved in moving this stuff by rail are totally negligible.
As as already been pointed out the flasks are incredibly heavy, you would need a huge amount of specialist equipment to even get into it. To do anything with the contents would require the use of a Sellafield and a few thousand people

Yes the risk is negligible and as you point out the flasks are incredibly strong and resilient, however they still represent a target for various factions hence why specifics surrounding the timetable are kept off the public domain.

I would imagine the contents could be used for a dirty bomb should anyone actually manage to get to the stuff.

 

[25322]

How do you know that armed guards were not dressed in BR uniform?

Cos BR Disappeared for good in 1997/8.

When flasks are loaded on to the trains I can assure you that there are plenty of men with Heckler&Koch MP5/10's or G36's and side arms either made by Mr glock or Mr Sig Sauer in the locality

In fact when loading the flasks any idiot who tried to take a flask would be met with a sharp shot to the head of around 9grams of lead. most police forces train to deal with the threat of terrorist attempting to hijack a flask train

Have you ever tried photographing one been loaded?

When in transit the whereabouts are known at all times and various teams are on standby if needed to deal with any threat to open the flasks. It's not that easy to remove the flasks by crane and to open them takes even longer.

As for the amount of nuclear material carried in them you may be better buying old watches with illuminous dials and using them to create a dirty bomb.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Cos BR Disappeared for good in 1997/8.

The post I quoted was referring to the 1960's, when BR did exist...

And I do believe BR still does legally exist, owning or responsible for something left over from pre-privatisation days.

 

[Old Timer]

BR still does exist.

Waste travelling by train does not require any form of armed (or unarmed)guard. You wont be able to get into it firstly, and secondly you would need a really big crane to lift it !

Armed guards used to travel with certain flows but these were purely military flows which now tend to go by lorry.

None of the waste is weapons grade and neither the Iranians or the North Koreans are not interested in it.

As has been said go find a pile of old seiko watches, because they would be more useful.

Did you know that some people used seiko luminous watches as a form on contraception in the 60s and early 70s ??

Apparantly if you tied it around the base of your dick, or left it in your underpants all night, you were OK.

That practice probably led to the Government we now have !

 

[33056]

Have you ever tried photographing one been loaded?

Yes. Been down to Dungeness a couple of times, admittedly a few years ago now, and you used to be able to just stand next to the rather decrepit fence surrounding the loading compound and snap away to your heart's content.

You could also get quite close to Leiston, Hunterston and Heysham as well IIRC, but I would be rather surprised if it was still possible to do so in the current climate.

 

[SquirrelJunction]

Is it worth pointing out as well that in instances where trains are escorted, it will be the Civil Nuclear Constabulary who has jurisdiction in non-milatary convoys (IE Sellafield) and the MoD Police for military establishments.

The officers of both are routinely armed.


Personally. I would not want to even guess therisk of having one on board a train I was picturing.

 

[moonrakerz]

As for the amount of nuclear material carried in them you may be better buying old watches with illuminous dials and using them to create a dirty bomb.

Many a true word ..................!

 

[jon0844]

Apparantly if you tied it around the base of your dick, or left it in your underpants all night, you were OK.

Last time I did that, I got into loads of trouble checking the time on the way to work.