Nursing to train driving, career change, advice please...

[Santababy]

I was wondering if anyone on this forum is / was a nurse before changing to a train driving career?

It appears some of the main pros for train driving (from reading many of the threads on here) are;
-4 day working week
-strong union
-5 days off together every few weeks
-obviously the pay

In my nursing role I work 12 hour shifts, so only work 3 day weeks (not necessarily together), shifts are more normal socialable times (full days and full nights) and I have one set day off a week. I work only 1 in 4 weekends and occasional nights (2 a month usually). So the big pro people keep mentioning of a 4 day week, in this instance, isn’t actually better for me.

However..... I have become very worried about the care I provide, I do not feel safe nor do I feel like I am able to do the best job I want to do due to a massive lack of resources from the government. I worry about causing an error due to the pressure, short staffing, under resourced situation we find ourselves in, but that would have serious ramifications professionally (not career ending though) and could ultimately cause the death of a patient. I also feel massively under appreciated and under valued. I found a payslip this week and I am actually taking home £40 a month less than I was 9 years ago. This is after having a promotion to a higher grade (I worked 8 nights plus 1 weekend a month back then). There is only so long I can keep year on year accepting a pay freeze / below inflation ‘payrise’, despite the fact beans on toast is one of my guilty pleasures! I now feel I need to watch the pennies, a position I hate being in. I work very hard and want it to treat my family and myself.

These are some of the reasons I am looking to leave nursing and enter the world of train driving. It is always something that has interested me, however I am nervous.
Nursing is all I’ve ever known, my comfort zone, and I am well respected with nursing colleagues and doctors alike. My currrent work life balance is great, I can easily plan events in the future, can have in two weeks, my 4 days off per week together, giving me an 8 day stretch off (doesn’t happen that often tbh-3 times a year). I can do the school run 2-3 days a week which I enjoy. I have a lot of banter with colleagues, and every day is different (to some degree, still is same s**t conditions of short staffing / unsafely overstretched).

But I am bored, worried, undervalued and want a change. Will train driving be all I have built it up to be? Have I read too many posts by people wearing rose tinted glasses? Is it really a very isolated profession? Do you end up being too scared / worried about having a SOL that it takes enjoyment (potentially your whole career) away from the driving?

Thanks for reading, and for any advice / opinions / thoughts. No holding back (although from reading railforums Anouilh I know you guys don’t....!)

 

[ComUtoR]

In my nursing role I work 12 hour shifts, so only work 3 day weeks (not necessarily together), shifts are more normal socialable times (full days and full nights) and I have one set day off a week. I work only 1 in 4 weekends and occasional nights (2 a month usually). So the big pro people keep mentioning of a 4 day week, in this instance, isn’t actually better for me.

A lot depends on what TOC you end up at. Some will have a fixed rest day pattern and some will just have averaged rosters. We work a 4 day week but its very random and there is no pattern. We flip early/late and you tend to run at extremes of the clock. As you say, that might not be better for you. My longest day is 9hrs 15minutes and that is infrequent. I think our average is around 8:30. I haven't done nights in over a year and they are easily got rid of and in general people swap constantly so getting a decent shift is pretty easy.

Nursing is all I’ve ever known, my comfort zone, and I am well respected with nursing colleagues and doctors alike. My currrent work life balance is great, I can easily plan events in the future, can have in two weeks, my 4 days off per week together, giving me an 8 day stretch off (doesn’t happen that often tbh-3 times a year). I can do the school run 2-3 days a week which I enjoy. I have a lot of banter with colleagues, and every day is different (to some degree, still is same s**t conditions of short staffing / unsafely overstretched).

I was a Retail Manager in a previous life and it was all I knew too. Making that move is always something you need to seriously consider. I gave up everything and took a giant leap. I have never looked back but I have been lucky and reasonably successful. My work life balance is tricky but I would say its healthy. I don't work overtime so being off for 3 days keeps my personal life on a reasonable level. Its not all happy and smiley because being fixed into your shifts and roster can be detrimental. Getting time off is never guaranteed and I've missed more than my fair share of events. But in the same vein I've gained so much more. I was one of the few Dads in the school playground and few Dads who regularly went to parents evening etc. I don't think I'd ever go back to a 9-5. As a shift worker you tend to appreciate the days off during the week. With a roster that runs December - May there is an ability to plan and some TOCs group their days off to give a regular 5/6 day run of days off. There is lots of time to plan and with a fixed leave week per year you can plan holidays well in advance.

But I am bored, worried, undervalued and want a change. Will train driving be all I have built it up to be? Have I read too many posts by people wearing rose tinted glasses? Is it really a very isolated profession? Do you end up being too scared / worried about having a SOL that it takes enjoyment (potentially your whole career) away from the driving?

Bored as hell and feel very undervalued. You can feel isolated during the day to day but your in crew rooms and the depot can often feel like family. I know Drivers who love the time to themselves.

It is a job and a lifestyle choice but I've lived by the mantra of taking the rough with the smooth. As with any job tbh. I believe the good outweighs the bad and my life changed considerably when I made the move. Financially better off but that's because I manage my money quite well. A high income doesn't always mean solvency. I know many Drivers up to their eyeballs in debt, just as many with a few quid saved up. I have a little but with kids... and Teenagers !!

 

[bionic]

It appears some of the main pros for train driving (from reading many of the threads on here) are;
-4 day working week
-strong union
-5 days off together every few weeks
-obviously the pay

4 day week- not all TOCs are. Those with committed Sundays are a 5 day week on those weeks. You get paid extra but it's essentially enforced OT if you can't cover it.

Strong union- depends entirely which TOC and depot you are at. ASLEF is very weak or in bed with management at some places, and strong and militant at others. It can vary massively. One TOC I worked for, ASLEF just rolled over at everything the company did and all the members in the depot were so busy smashing the rest days they didn't care.

5 days off together every few weeks- depends on the TOC. Not all have fixed rest day patterns or well split rest days. Some TOCs can even move your rest days.

The pay- in many cases you will find the pay is so good at some TOCs because the union sold EVERYTHING to get it. In many cases you have TOCs where drivers have sold most of their conditions out years ago and the money they got for it has long been absorbed into pay rises so they end up on less money than TOCs where the drivers hung onto their conditions and still have guards.

Choose carefully. You also need to consider the workload at the depot you go to. Many TOCs with high intensity suburban DOO work are easy to get into but have a much higher chance of you being involved in an incident that could follow you around for the rest of your driving career.

 

[Gooner18]

Might be worth looking into a Depot driver , less money ( although still not bad) but maybe you have more of a consistent shift pattern ?

 

[boogie]

Might be worth looking into a Depot driver , less money ( although still not bad) but maybe you have more of a consistent shift pattern ?

Hello Gooner18, are you a depot shunter driver? if so can you fill me in on what the shift patterns are like. I will be starting my training as depot driver in January and would like to have a little info if you have any
Cheers

 

[Gooner18]

Hello Gooner18, are you a depot shunter driver? if so can you fill me in on what the shift patterns are like. I will be starting my training as depot driver in January and would like to have a little info if you have any
Cheers

Just PM’ed you boogie

 

[Sheps7755]

I went from being a paramedic to train driving. Best move I ever made. Highly highly recommend.

 

[Santababy]

Might be worth looking into a Depot driver , less money ( although still not bad) but maybe you have more of a consistent shift pattern ?

thank you for your reply. Do you happen to know what type of shifts depot drivers do? I'm guessing they do more evenings / nights due to the fact most trains are out in use during the daytimes.

 

[Santababy]

I went from being a paramedic to train driving. Best move I ever made. Highly highly recommend.

thank you, that's good to know.
what about things like annual leave though? Where I work we have to book leave up to 2 1/2 years in advance, especially to get 2 weeks off in the summer school holidays! Very far in advance which is difficult, but also good because you know where you are for planning purposes. Is it easy to get annual leave when you want it or are you forced to take weeks at specific times?

How are you finding the whole variation of shifts, as a paramedic do you not mainly do 12 hour days / nights with same start times?

Very curious to know answers, and for any insight as to why it is the best move you've ever made.

Thank you

 

[C.T.P.]

thank you, that's good to know.
what about things like annual leave though? Where I work we have to book leave up to 2 1/2 years in advance, especially to get 2 weeks off in the summer school holidays! Very far in advance which is difficult, but also good because you know where you are for planning purposes. Is it easy to get annual leave when you want it or are you forced to take weeks at specific times?

How are you finding the whole variation of shifts, as a paramedic do you not mainly do 12 hour days / nights with same start times?

Very curious to know answers, and for any insight as to why it is the best move you've ever made.

Thank you

Why do you want to become a train driver?

 

[baz962]

thank you, that's good to know.
what about things like annual leave though? Where I work we have to book leave up to 2 1/2 years in advance, especially to get 2 weeks off in the summer school holidays! Very far in advance which is difficult, but also good because you know where you are for planning purposes. Is it easy to get annual leave when you want it or are you forced to take weeks at specific times?

How are you finding the whole variation of shifts, as a paramedic do you not mainly do 12 hour days / nights with same start times?

Very curious to know answers, and for any insight as to why it is the best move you've ever made.

Thank you

Most toc's give you 4-5 week's block (fixed leave ) plus some floating day's , usually about 2-3 week's worth. At some toc's , if not all you can swap your allocated leave

 

[Sheps7755]

Annual leave is rostered mainly to be at certain times a year. But it's fairly easy to swap with other drivers. On the plus side your always guaranteed your time off but not necessarily when you want it.

Shifts are a bit more over the place but it's not really that different from NHS shifts just shorter and you actually get breaks. Ambulance was always 12 hour shift mix of days nights and lates.

You're treated a lot better on the railways they've fought tooth and nail for employees rights so it's a really good place to work. The benefits and salary are great.

 

[Santababy]

Why do you want to become a train driver?

variety of reasons...
I am bored where I am, with no real progression due to cuts for any advancement of career,
I like shift work and nights,
I will still get time off with the kids,
I like some time on my own,
I want to learn more things- I am bored where I am,
I am a perfectionist who likes to follow rules and procedures and know things readily from memory,
I like order and planning in my life,
I want more money in my work,
I want a job for life where you are looked after by who you work for,
I would value a union that fights your corner, unlike the RCN who are quite useless IMHO
I want a job with options to ultimately teach people (new drivers),
I quite like trains,
I love seeing the world go by, travelling and seeing new places (could be out of the cab window, or with the free rail travel I would get as an employee on rest days),
I want a decent pension...

 

[Santababy]

Most toc's give you 4-5 week's block (fixed leave ) plus some floating day's , usually about 2-3 week's worth. At some toc's , if not all you can swap your allocated leave

That's good to know, so a family wedding at a time when you weren't on a period of fixed annual leave could easily be still attended by using floating A/L. Thank you

 

[Santababy]

Annual leave is rostered mainly to be at certain times a year. But it's fairly easy to swap with other drivers. On the plus side your always guaranteed your time off but not necessarily when you want it.

Shifts are a bit more over the place but it's not really that different from NHS shifts just shorter and you actually get breaks. Ambulance was always 12 hour shift mix of days nights and lates.

You're treated a lot better on the railways they've fought tooth and nail for employees rights so it's a really good place to work. The benefits and salary are great.

I am struggling to understand how 7 days on shift on the bounce would work for me, but I am applying my knowledge of 12 hour shifts to that- 3-4x12 hour shifts in a row are enough for me, think 7 would kill me! But if you as a driver get shorter shifts and breaks then that will certainly help make it manageable.

the fact that you are treated well on the railways is something a lot of people keep mentioning. And ASLEF certainly sounds way more proactive and useful than the likes of the nursing union the RCN.

Thank you

 

[C.T.P.]

You're welcome.

 

[tiptoptaff]

That's good to know, so a family wedding at a time when you weren't on a period of fixed annual leave could easily be still attended by using floating A/L. Thank you

Not necessarily - you will have to apply for leave and there is a maximum number of crew who can be on leave at a depot at any one time. If it's a Saturday in the height of summer, you'll struggle. Part of being a train driver is accepting you will miss out on some social and/or family events. I currently work in Control, going driving next year, and I have been rostered for nights over Christmas two years in a row. My daughter's first two Christmases. Its awful, but it's part and parcel of the job. I know the NHS can be like that too - as can any shift work, but having the days off you want isn't always guaranteed.

Out of interest, which TOC(s) are you thinking of applying to?

 

[tiptoptaff]

I am struggling to understand how 7 days on shift on the bounce would work for me, but I am applying my knowledge of 12 hour shifts to that- 3-4x12 hour shifts in a row are enough for me, think 7 would kill me! But if you as a driver get shorter shifts and breaks then that will certainly help make it manageable.

the fact that you are treated well on the railways is something a lot of people keep mentioning. And ASLEF certainly sounds way more proactive and useful than the likes of the nursing union the RCN.

Thank you

In a 4day week with rolling rest days, with a booked committed Sunday, you will work 7days in a row once in every three to four weeks and these, TOC/Depot depending, could easily be 7nights. Those 7 turns could all be up to 10hours long, again, TOC/Depot depending.

Your start times and finish times could also vary greatly over that 7days.

Some depots have links that change twice a year so your rest days change and you can only really plan 6months ahead. With the 4day week rolling rest days the rest day pattern is fixed so you will know your days off forever, but the shifts you will be working on given days will change with the links every 6months.

The pattern is nowhere near as stable as fixed shifts in the NHS, or indeed, any other part of the railway (in control I work fixed hours on a rolling pattern)

 

[Paul Calverley]

Currently a A&E HCA and working through the recruitment process(attending ?stage 1 In watford week after next). Do voluntary work on a heritage railway and this would be my ideal career. Also glad to see and hear others from the medical profession are also going for these roles and enjoy it. Lets hope I'm successful and you to if you go for it!

 

[C.T.P.]

variety of reasons...
I am bored where I am, with no real progression due to cuts for any advancement of career,
I like shift work and nights,
I will still get time off with the kids,
I like some time on my own,
I want to learn more things- I am bored where I am,
I am a perfectionist who likes to follow rules and procedures and know things readily from memory,
I like order and planning in my life,
I want more money in my work,
I want a job for life where you are looked after by who you work for,
I would value a union that fights your corner, unlike the RCN who are quite useless IMHO
I want a job with options to ultimately teach people (new drivers),
I quite like trains,
I love seeing the world go by, travelling and seeing new places (could be out of the cab window, or with the free rail travel I would get as an employee on rest days),
I want a decent pension...

As a train driver you will be even more bored as you will spend a lot of time being alone, sometimes in darkness. Do you want to be a train driver or do you want to be a manager?
You already work shifts and nights.
In your current job you work 12hr shifts, and therefore only 3 days working in a week, so you would not get more free time as a train driver.
Are you saying that you have nothing else to learn in your current job? Especially since you are a perfectionist? What is the title of your job?
I'll stop here as this is becoming ridiculous....
Good luck with your application.

 

[bionic]

Lots of scope for boredom in the driving grade. Personally I've never been bored but many of my colleagues say it bores them to tears and they are only there for the money.

 

[Gooner18]

Currently a A&E HCA and working through the recruitment process(attending ?stage 1 In watford week after next). Do voluntary work on a heritage railway and this would be my ideal career. Also glad to see and hear others from the medical profession are also going for these roles and enjoy it. Lets hope I'm successful and you to if you go for it!

I take it as you’re going to Watford you’ve applied for London overground?

 

[Gooner18]

thank you for your reply. Do you happen to know what type of shifts depot drivers do? I'm guessing they do more evenings / nights due to the fact most trains are out in use during the daytimes.

I don’t know the actual shift pattern but in general they are split into 3 shifts , early , lates and nights , I would imagine the majority of work taking place in night shifts.

Although the money is a lot less than mainline driving

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Guessing you work for the NHS. How many years do you have in nursing?

And importantly, how many years have you paid into the NHS pension? Have you thought how you would deal with this (e.g. freezing/transferring to a private TOC pension if this is possible)? Have you spoken to an independent financial advisor?

Are you not just jumping ship?

 

[Unknockable]

As a train driver you will be even more bored as you will spend a lot of time being alone, sometimes in darkness. Do you want to be a train driver or do you want to be a manager?
You already work shifts and nights.
In your current job you work 12hr shifts, and therefore only 3 days working in a week, so you would not get more free time as a train driver.
Are you saying that you have nothing else to learn in your current job? Especially since you are a perfectionist? What is the title of your job?
I'll stop here as this is becoming ridiculous....
Good luck with your application.

Jesus, how can you be so pessimistic. Also just because train driving is boring to you doesn’t mean it will to everyone else.

 

[Santababy]

Guessing you work for the NHS. How many years do you have in nursing?

And importantly, how many years have you paid into the NHS pension? Have you thought how you would deal with this (e.g. freezing/transferring to a private TOC pension if this is possible)? Have you spoken to an independent financial advisor?

Are you not just jumping ship?

I’ve been in 15 years and paid into the pension all that time. Don’t think I can transfer in my pension so it would freeze. Not spoken to a financial advisor, good route to go down so thanks for that advice!

Jumping ship or protecting myself from all the problems that I’ve been fighting so hard against for so long but now I feel I've reached my limit, same thing!?

 

[tiptoptaff]

Jesus, how can you be so pessimistic. Also, just because train driving is boring to you doesn’t mean it will be to everyone else.

I think you need to get a hold of the reality of the role. This isn't pessimism, its realism.

 

[Paul Calverley]

I take it as you’re going to Watford you’ve applied for London overground?

Applied for the Trainee Drivers with freight liner in the dartford area

 

[Santababy]

As a train driver you will be even more bored as you will spend a lot of time being alone, sometimes in darkness. Do you want to be a train driver or do you want to be a manager?
You already work shifts and nights.
In your current job you work 12hr shifts, and therefore only 3 days working in a week, so you would not get more free time as a train driver.
Are you saying that you have nothing else to learn in your current job? Especially since you are a perfectionist? What is the title of your job?
I'll stop here as this is becoming ridiculous....
Good luck with your application.

Thanks for your reply.

A train driver a first but wouldn’t say no to being a manager once I had been in the profession long enough to know what I was doing so I could become an effective manager, maybe 10 years or so...

I do have more to learn in my profession, but to do so would be a massive upheaval to my work/life balance, involve a lot of studying (doing a masters and prescribing course over 3 years while working full time), having so much more autonomy and responsibility and worse shift patterns. All for pay which would, even 8 years after qualifying in that role, would still be below what my local TOC are offering as a starting salary!

So if I’m going to do that kind of upheaval in my life to progress my career in an already failing NHS, why not choose a whole new career path doing something which I’ve toyed with for a few years now?!

 

[Santababy]

Lots of scope for boredom in the driving grade. Personally I've never been bored but many of my colleagues say it bores them to tears and they are only there for the money.

Suppose at least if I’m bored with my work now I can still have good banter with my colleagues. In a cab you’d be stuck with no company so I can see your point, thank you.

How do your colleagues manage the boredom out of interest?