Nutter attacks female conductor on Cambrian

[61653 HTAFC]

There is an was no mention of mental health issues, but the use of the word 'nutter' is distasteful to say the least.

I thought the same, though from the description of the incident I'd bet a pint on the young man in question having some sort of mental health issue. Of course, that's of little comfort to the guard and doesn't excuse the perpetrator's actions- it may explain them. Of course any details of such would rightly be unlikely to be released to the press, I'd hope that this young man will be given any help he might need to turn his life around. If he does have some form of mental illness, gaoling him would be unlikely to achieve such ends.

 

[Sodor85]

I think regardless whether he does or doesn't have mental health issues, the guy should have been given jail time. It's disgraceful. Lets just hope he's rehabilitated in some way.

 

[Greenback]

The offender may simply have consumed too much cider, taken some other form of drug or just not care about anyone else for some reason. It's impossible to say.

 

[crewmeal]

I've said it once, I'll say it again. While this country is soft on crime then these sorts of incidents will go on. The justice system is at fault by demeaning these sorts of crimes therefore allowing magistrates to pass punitive sentences.

Personally I would have given him 5 years hard labour and banned him from the railway system for life.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Clearly people like Ceri Edwards cannot be trusted to give an accurate representation of a persons character. It sounds to me like she will literally say anything to try to get the judge to be sympathetic.

It's not their job to be accurate, it is their job to present their client's case in court. Everyone is entitled to defend themselves, or offer mitigation, in court and it is the solicitor's job to ensure that that case is presented.

When a solicitor is offering up platitudes, that is code for "no there's not really any mitigation here but I have to say something". Everyone working on the case knows what it means.

Given the cuts to Legal Aid funding, I wouldn't worry about it for too much longer though. The Government want everyone to use the useless and ill--qualified Public Defender Service instead.

 

[Tibbs]

I've said it once, I'll say it again. While this country is soft on crime then these sorts of incidents will go on. The justice system is at fault by demeaning these sorts of crimes therefore allowing magistrates to pass punitive sentences.

Personally I would have given him 5 years hard labour and banned him from the railway system for life.

Which is why (I hope) you're not involved in our legal or penal system.

 

[Antman]

My thoughts are of course with the victim the assalt sounded serious and unprovoked, however the thread title has no place in modern society. The a

There is an was no mention of mental health issues, but the use of the word 'nutter' is distasteful to say the least.

Not if you take the word 'nutter' in the context it was meant, quite honestly I struggle to think of a more appropriate word for this idiot.

 

[Lockwood]

Again, only a suspicion but I doubt he would know buzzer codes so expect he just gave one.

I thought that that code would have been fairly common knowledge though.
You hear the "Bzzzzt Bzzzzt .............. Buzz Buzz" quite well on the FGW 158s

 

[Antman]

A lot (unless you're in a "duty of care" in which case, very little)

We know that if you have 18 convictions and then engage in racism, violence, aggravated trespass, theft of a vehicle, driving dangerously, crashing a vehicle, resisting arrest, and possessing cocaine results in you being let off (see the story of the pathetic weasel scum-bag morally corrupt Ian Houillebecq )

So, what do you have to do? Well, you could not feed a dog for a few days and set it loose to eat a man alive, but you'll only be jailed for a very short time indeed.

Our legal system is absolutely, completely and utterly bonkers. (and no, Ralph & co, I am not changing my mind)

I couldn't agree more, the trouble is that courts are under pressure not to lock people up because of overcrowding:cry:

 

[455driver]

I thought the same, though from the description of the incident I'd bet a pint on the young man in question having some sort of mental health issue. Of course, that's of little comfort to the guard and doesn't excuse the perpetrator's actions- it may explain them. Of course any details of such would rightly be unlikely to be released to the press, I'd hope that this young man will be given any help he might need to turn his life around. If he does have some form of mental illness, gaoling him would be unlikely to achieve such ends.

I wondered when some liberal would start with all the excuses for his behaviour! :roll:
If there was any chance of him having mental health issues do you not think they would have looked into it?
If being a tw@ is a mental illness then I agree with you, but as it isnt I dont.
The reason this happens is because they know they can get away with it as proved by this.

If anyone wonders why staff let the sh#theads get away with it and wont get involved then this show exactly what is wrong with this poxy country (nearly forgot to put the 'o' in there).

I wonder what would happen if a couple Louise work colleagues went and 'had a chat' with this scum what sort of sentence they would receive?
One law for them and another for the decent people of society!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The offender may simply have consumed too much cider, taken some other form of drug or just not care about anyone else for some reason. It's impossible to say.

So if you get p#ssed or stoned the laws of the land dont apply to you then!
I take it that is what you are saying because that is certainly how it reads. :roll:

What happened to personal responsibility?
I can remember when, if you got p#ssed and beat somebody up, you got a longer sentence because they added drunk and disorderly to it, nowadays it is literally a get out of jail card!

 

[Bill Stanier]

Disgusting behavior. Perhaps he was off his head on drugs or drink - though that's certainly no excuse... "it wasn't me officer, it was the Boddingtons".

But he really should have been locked up - for being a member of the Labour party!

 

[meridian2]

I completely agree with 455driver.

The trouble with all these people trying to find mitigation in this event is that they're merely playing devil's advocate. All that we need to know is that an assault took place and he got off lightly. Everything else is immaterial.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Interestingly, studies have shown that the general public are more swayed by a good sob story mitigation than judges and Magistrates are.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Absolutely disgusting behaviour. I'd have locked him in jail and thrown away the key!

Hoping the conductress makes, or has made, a full recovery.

 

[dtaylor84]

I wondered when some liberal would start with all the excuses for his behaviour! :roll:
If there was any chance of him having mental health issues do you not think they would have looked into it?

I imagine they would. How do you know they didn't!?

 

[Greenback]

I imagine they would. How do you know they didn't!?

Was it mentioned in mitigation?

 

[Clip]

I wonder what would happen if a couple Louise work colleagues went and 'had a chat' with this scum what sort of sentence they would receive?
One law for them and another for the decent people of society!

They would probably get a worse punishment as it would be seen as premeditated and a revenge attack.

Was it mentioned in mitigation?

We simply dont know we are only going off the story printed and most are speculating which apparently we are not allowed to do, as I saw in another thread. But you simply cant rule out the option of he did/didnt.


I do hope the lady in question can get over this and back to her job without fear of this happenning again and I hope that her TOC give her all the support she needs.

 

[Smethwickian]

My thoughts are with the conductor on this and I, too, am totally exasperated at the inadequate sentences meted out to such offenders. Bear in mind that changes/cutbacks to the probation service mean that any orders/offender programmes will probably be poorly supervised and of low quality. Re-offending rates are rising all the time as a result.

As to the mitigation in court, yes, the solicitor merely 'goes through the motions' in a case like this, as more details, recommendations and background will be in the pre-sentence report papers which will have been read by the bench but not usually read out in court nor readily made available to the press to report. Those who say magistrates are less prone to a 'sob story' are, hopefully, correct, but their sentencing powers are constrained by various guidelines and by regular advice from the Lord Chancellor or by case law from higher courts.

Even where there's really no defence to a case, the British justice system has provision for representation and mitigation, and for someone to make sure that from the defendent's point of view everything is administered properly - that's ultimately of benefit to the prosecution, too, as there can be no come-back or cause for appeal on a technicality.

As to how the scumbag came to be able to operate the doors, the way I read it is sounds as if the conductor may have been ready to operate the panel and had it open when she was flung out of the way. And as others have stated, anyone who has seen it done once or twice would have a pretty good chance of pressing the right button to at least close some or all of the doors and sound a couple of buzzers, even if, in this instance, it obviously failed to convince the driver all was well.

 

[Greenback]

We simply dont know we are only going off the story printed and most are speculating which apparently we are not allowed to do, as I saw in another thread. But you simply cant rule out the option of he did/didnt.

Indeed. That was my point, rather clumsily put, I admit!

I do hope the lady in question can get over this and back to her job without fear of this happenning again and I hope that her TOC give her all the support she needs.

I hope so too. People react in different ways, too. What may be seen by one person as a minor incident can have a completely different effect on another. I hope that ATW recognise this!

 

[Clip]

Indeed greenback and I hope they do something for the rest of their staff in some form of training with regards to this incident.

 

[Tibbs]

I hope so too. People react in different ways, too. What may be seen by one person as a minor incident can have a completely different effect on another. I hope that ATW recognise this!

I was once told about a fatal firearms incident that two Police Officers were party to. One was back at work the next day, the other never worked as a Police Officer again.

You never know how you're going to react to a very stressful situation until you're there.

 

[muddythefish]

A frightening incident for the conductor and passengers and one hopes the official is not badly affected and returns to work as soon as possible.

As far as the offender is concerned, this is not normal behaviour and one does wonder as to his mental health. Were psychiatric tests carried out ? And if it is possible that he is ill should he have been tried in a court of law ?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Some further detail

he said his behavior was inexcusable and couldn't explain it so his non belligerence at court would help him slightly.
He was at the upper end of a non custodial sentence.
There was no victim statement or information on how the incident effected the Conductor provided by the prosecution. I'm told if there was, even if it was along the lines of I took two weeks off work and sometimes still feel anxiety approaching Welshpool he probably would have got custodial.

 

[Watto1990]

I wonder what would happen if a couple Louise work colleagues went and 'had a chat' with this scum what sort of sentence they would receive?
One law for them and another for the decent people of society!

Correct, if a gang of her colleagues went out, took the law into their own hands and carried out a pre-meditated assault the law probably would come down hard on them. Very astute.

 

[455driver]

I imagine they would. How do you know they didn't!?

I was answering 61653 HTAFC who intimated that MI might have been an excuse* for his behaviour!
Personally I think he is a <deleted> and should have been locked up.

*not a reason!

 

[Bill Stanier]

I'm told if there was, even if it was along the lines of I took two weeks off work and sometimes still feel anxiety approaching Welshpool he probably would have got custodial.

I doubt that. The effects on the victim are not something the perpetrator would know in advance; his sentence would reflect only what he knew and what he did.

That his victim might shrug it off and be in work next shift, or if she is deeply traumatised and can't work for weeks is not something within his control or his fore-knowledge, so would not affect his punishment.

 

[Llanigraham]

The effect on the victim is taken into account by the Magistrates when considering the sentence on the accused.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The effect on the victim is taken into account by the Magistrates when considering the sentence on the accused.

Correct.

 

[Starmill]

Some further detail

he said his behavior was inexcusable and couldn't explain it so his non belligerence at court would help him slightly.
He was at the upper end of a non custodial sentence.
There was no victim statement or information on how the incident effected the Conductor provided by the prosecution. I'm told if there was, even if it was along the lines of I took two weeks off work and sometimes still feel anxiety approaching Welshpool he probably would have got custodial.

If accurate, this is very welcome (and we have no reason to disbelieve you, I'm just pointing out that there seems to be a bit of a lack of clarity in the media) and demonstrates that there's always more to these things than meets the eye...

 

[Gareth Marston]

If accurate, this is very welcome (and we have no reason to disbelieve you, I'm just pointing out that there seems to be a bit of a lack of clarity in the media) and demonstrates that there's always more to these things than meets the eye...

My source is very good but I can't say who.