NYMR news and updates.

[HST43257]

Any news as to when the Diesel Gala timetable/allocs will be released?

 

[12C]

It seems high to me as well! If they have to charge this level of fare to stay in business then they won't be in business for much longer.

Based on my last couple of visits recently I don’t think the fare is putting visitors off. On both occasions we took the 0920 to Whitby which was full and standing from Pickering. The 1410 return from Whitby busier still, with passengers standing down aisles and corridors. Never known the line so packed, I dare say they could charge more and it would still be popular.

 

[paul1609]

Based on my last couple of visits recently I don’t think the fare is putting visitors off. On both occasions we took the 0920 to Whitby which was full and standing from Pickering. The 1410 return from Whitby busier still, with passengers standing down aisles and corridors. Never known the line so packed, I dare say they could charge more and it would still be popular.

Good to hear.

 

[Belperpete]

Based on my last couple of visits recently I don’t think the fare is putting visitors off. On both occasions we took the 0920 to Whitby which was full and standing from Pickering. The 1410 return from Whitby busier still, with passengers standing down aisles and corridors.

Not good to hear that people are having to stand. Commuters might endure it, but tourists who have paid £50 each are not going to be too happy about it, and may well end up posting bad reviews. Don't the NYMR control their ticket sales to avoid this kind of thing?

 

[railfan99]

I think that the NYMR has a lower single fare that you can only get on the day from the booking office.

I clicked on what turned out to be a former hyperlink: it came up with 'error'. I'm not sure you're correct.

 

[HST43257]

Not good to hear that people are having to stand. Commuters might endure it, but tourists who have paid £50 each are not going to be too happy about it, and may well end up posting bad reviews. Don't the NYMR control their ticket sales to avoid this kind of thing?

Day rover is a day rover. They’re not gonna limit them when they don’t know which trains people will take, No more reservations in the same way as during covid.

 

[railfan99]

Given NYMR's expensive day rover has increased ticket and cafe revenues, why are other UK heritage railways reluctant to do the same - especially re raising fares?

Whitby is popular to visit but are other railways' prospective passengers more price sensitive?

 

[D Williams]

Not good to hear that people are having to stand. Commuters might endure it, but tourists who have paid £50 each are not going to be too happy about it, and may well end up posting bad reviews. Don't the NYMR control their ticket sales to avoid this kind of thing?

The latest tripadvisor reviews reflect this.

 

[paul1609]

I clicked on what turned out to be a former hyperlink: it came up with 'error'. I'm not sure you're correct.

I haven't been to "the moors" (as it's called on the K&ESR) for some years but there are crew who are regular visitors I'll ask them to enquire for me.
Meanwhile it occurs to me that it may well be worth overseas visitors who plan trips on multiple heritage Railways in the UK (particularly those visiting with a partner or a friend) seeking membership of the friends of the hra £25 and splashing £180 on a privilege card. https://www.hra.uk.com/membership/friends-of-the-hra
railfan99 knows an address in Kent that he can use should he not wish to get the card sent overseas.

 

[Iskra]

Not good to hear that people are having to stand. Commuters might endure it, but tourists who have paid £50 each are not going to be too happy about it, and may well end up posting bad reviews. Don't the NYMR control their ticket sales to avoid this kind of thing?

This is something that can be managed though. It seems from my visits that it’s the Whitby services that are very popular and the internal services less so.

If a train is full and standing departing Whitby, passengers could be advised to travel to Grosmont and then spend time there before continuing on an internal service that may have more spare capacity.

Alternatively, they could do a ticket that is NYMR only, and another that includes Whitby that is more expensive.

The Whitby services are always going to be over-subscribed on a sunny day, especially if it’s a weekend or school holiday, and passengers should take some time to consider this before travelling. I always try to travel at times when I know the trains aren’t going to be chaos.

I hope we don’t go back to the days of reservations, they defeat the point of a rover ticket.

 

[DarloRich]

"I appreciate that the £49.50 fare may seem to be high to visitors from overseas "

It seems high to me as well! If they have to charge this level of fare to stay in business then they won't be in business for much longer.

Increasingly blue in the face:

You get a years free pass for that price. ( it isn't, honestly, worth the semantics over gift aid definitions etc)

 

[railfan99]

Increasingly blue in the face:

You get a years free pass for that price. ( it isn't, honestly, worth the semantics over gift aid definitions etc)

You assume whether locals or from another nation that individuals are able, or want to, visit again in the same year.

Many or some may, but not all. As a foreigner, I'm an outlier but having done NYMR a few years ago, a second visit would only be for one day.

There's no choice offered by NYMR: take it or leave it seems the attitude.

If a train is full and standing departing Whitby, passengers could be advised to travel to Grosmont and then spend time there before continuing on an internal service that may have more spare capacity.

Many who travel with children will regard that as impractical.

 

[DarloRich]

There's no choice offered by NYMR: take it or leave it seems the attitude.

yes - many seem happy to take it. You can also buy individual fares for station to station if you just want a short chuff.

You assume whether locals or from another nation that individuals are able, or want to, visit again in the same year.

But that gamble cuts both ways. If I visit 6 times this year then NYMR lose out quite bit. ( I live at the other end of the country and will try to visit a couple of times as part of visit to the area which is fantastic)

 

[Iskra]

Many who travel with children will regard that as impractical.

But at least they then have the option, it’s their choice whether they use it. And of course not everyone is travelling with children.

 

[Belperpete]

The Whitby services are always going to be over-subscribed on a sunny day, especially if it’s a weekend or school holiday, and passengers should take some time to consider this before travelling. I always try to travel at times when I know the trains aren’t going to be chaos.

Sorry, but to put the blame on the passengers is not on. How are they supposed to know that it is likely to be chaos? I can't find any such advice to passengers on the NYMR website, other than for the last return from Whitby. Passengers are advised to book in advance "so that the railway can manage demand", so I would be particularly unhappy if having done so I didn't get a seat.

The trains are only going to be over subscribed if the railway sells too many tickets. There is no excuse for the outward journeys being standing. You stop issuing tickets once capacity is reached. And for the return journey, surely the railway should know from experience roughly what percentage of outward fares are going to return by later services.

If you want to have a system where passengers are given complete flexibility, then you have to allow sufficient spare capacity. It sounds like the NYMR are not doing that.

Having trains full and standing is not only unpleasant for those standing, but also not good for those seated either.

 

[Iskra]

Sorry, but to put the blame on the passengers is not on. How are they supposed to know that it is likely to be chaos? I can't find any such advice to passengers on the NYMR website, other than for the last return from Whitby. Passengers are advised to book in advance "so that the railway can manage demand", so I would be particularly unhappy if having done so I didn't get a seat.

The trains are only going to be over subscribed if the railway sells too many tickets. There is no excuse for the outward journeys being standing. You stop issuing tickets once capacity is reached. And for the return journey, surely the railway should know from experience roughly what percentage of outward fares are going to return by later services.

If you want to have a system where passengers are given complete flexibility, then you have to allow sufficient spare capacity. It sounds like the NYMR are not doing that.

Having trains full and standing is not only unpleasant for those standing, but also not good for those seated either.

It’s not blame, it’s responsibility.

It’s blatantly obvious that seaside places are busier during nice weather.

If the railway stopped selling tickets because it was full, people would complain about that, especially if they turned up on the day having travelled a significant distance. Additionally, someone willing to stand for at least part of the journey, wouldn’t be able to travel at all, neither would someone wanting a single and then to hike back to their starting point.

The NYMR is operating in the same way trains in this country always have, so people should not be surprised by it. Sometimes, people have to stand. Would you support compulsory reservations on the National Network, and how about on Northern services to Whitby?

The NYMR provides all the capacity it can, which is generally adequate, and is limited by the number of paths on the national network it can occupy.

 

[Belperpete]

It’s not blame, it’s responsibility.

It’s blatantly obvious that seaside places are busier during nice weather.

If the railway stopped selling tickets because it was full, people would complain about that, especially if they turned up on the day having travelled a significant distance. Additionally, someone willing to stand for at least part of the journey, wouldn’t be able to travel at all, neither would someone wanting a single and then to hike back to their starting point.

The NYMR is operating in the same way trains in this country always have, so people should not be surprised by it. Sometimes, people have to stand. Would you support compulsory reservations on the National Network, and how about on Northern services to Whitby?

The NYMR provides all the capacity it can, which is generally adequate, and is limited by the number of paths on the national network it can occupy.

I am sorry, but if that is the kind of attitude that the NYMR has for its passengers, then I won't be one of them.

I might have to endure those kinds of conditions on the national network if I want to travel somewhere, but I'll be damned if I am going to endure them for something I am paying for pleasure. The NYMR is not a commuter railway, it is a pleasure attraction. If they are going to advise passengers to book in advance so that the railway can manage capacity, then the railway should be doing just that.

This has nothing to do with the number of paths available, it is all about the number of tickets issued for a particular train.

Agreed that some people might complain if they turned up on the day and there were no spaces left, as some people will complain about almost anything, but most people would understand. What they will not understand is if they have bought a ticket in advance, specifying the train they are going to be travelling on, and there is no seat for them. No wonder the NYMR are getting bad reviews, that is just unacceptable.

 

[Iskra]

I am sorry, but if that is the kind of attitude that the NYMR has for its passengers, then I won't be one of them.

I might have to endure those kinds of conditions on the national network if I want to travel somewhere, but I'll be damned if I am going to endure them for something I am paying for pleasure. The NYMR is not a commuter railway, it is a pleasure attraction. If they are going to advise passengers to book in advance so that the railway can manage capacity, then the railway should be doing just that.

This has nothing to do with the number of paths available, it is all about the number of tickets issued for a particular train.

Agreed that some people might complain if they turned up on the day and there were no spaces left, as some people will complain about almost anything, but most people would understand. What they will not understand is if they have bought a ticket in advance, specifying the train they are going to be travelling on, and there is no seat for them. No wonder the NYMR are getting bad reviews, that is just unacceptable.

The railway does manage capacity and respond where it can (ie, on the NYMR proper). What it can't do is do anything once the trains are at their maximum permitted length to Whitby, using all of the available paths. Clearly, no more capacity can then be provided. And even if they did have unlimited resources and capacity, the weather forecast isn't reliable until 24 hours out, and even then it can differ when you're running 24 miles through moorland, valleys and coast, so you can't just snap your fingers and produce more drivers, guards, coaches, staff in an instant if the weather comes good and 50% more people make a snap decision to travel to the area.

They don't issue tickets for a particular train, just day rovers. Clearly, there is no system that will satisfy every possible person, and someone will still moan whatever they do. I think they have it about right, from my own experience of recent visits. The NYMR is doing the best it can reasonably do with what it has, and I think you're being incredibly unfair- compare the service the NYMR compares to what Northern provides over the same tracks!

All that lots of noise, complaining and bad reviews is going to achieve, is getting the Whitby services withdrawn altogether. With all the upcoming coach modifications required, the additional staff needed to run the service, cost of mainline-certifying stock and additional fuel costs; some accountant somewhere is probably already questioning whether it's worth bothering with at all considering they could probably do just fine running Pickering-Grosmont and have a much easier life doing so.

 

[Swimbar]

I am sorry, but if that is the kind of attitude that the NYMR has for its passengers, then I won't be one of them.

I might have to endure those kinds of conditions on the national network if I want to travel somewhere, but I'll be damned if I am going to endure them for something I am paying for pleasure. The NYMR is not a commuter railway, it is a pleasure attraction. If they are going to advise passengers to book in advance so that the railway can manage capacity, then the railway should be doing just that.

You frequently take the opportunity in your posts to criticise the NYMR. They are managing a Heritage Railway to the best of their ability. The current weather patterns, varying school holidays etc make it very difficult to predict how many people will be travelling. I travel on the National Network for pleasure, particularly to the South West, at three times the price of a ticket for the NYMR and frequently have to stand most of the way. Clearly the professionals are no better at managing peak flows.

 

[12C]

All that lots of noise, complaining and bad reviews is going to achieve, is getting the Whitby services withdrawn altogether. With all the upcoming coach modifications required, the additional staff needed to run the service, cost of mainline-certifying stock and additional fuel costs; some accountant somewhere is probably already questioning whether it's worth bothering with at all considering they could probably do just fine running Pickering-Grosmont and have a much easier life doing so.

I don’t think withdrawing the Whitby services would be a good idea, unless the decision is taken out of their hands with CDL requirements etc. The reason the railway is struggling to manage capacity is because it is a victim of its own success, and running to Whitby has been a game changer for the NYMR. I remember going when it only ran to Grosmont and it was never anywhere near as busy as it is now. Whitby is an ideal day trip destination, and Pickering is in prime North Yorkshire Moors holiday territory, whereas apart from the loco depot and cafe there’s not a lot at Grosmont.

It’s a shame trains are limited to 6 coaches, I assume this is because of passing/run round loops. Maybe the ideal compromise would be a better first class offering where passengers could reserve a guaranteed seat, with standard being a free for all.

 

[Iskra]

I don’t think withdrawing the Whitby services would be a good idea, unless the decision is taken out of their hands with CDL requirements etc. The reason the railway is struggling to manage capacity is because it is a victim of its own success, and running to Whitby has been a game changer for the NYMR. I remember going when it only ran to Grosmont and it was never anywhere near as busy as it is now. Whitby is an ideal day trip destination, and Pickering is in prime North Yorkshire Moors holiday territory, whereas apart from the loco depot and cafe there’s not a lot at Grosmont.

It’s a shame trains are limited to 6 coaches, I assume this is because of passing/run round loops. Maybe the ideal compromise would be a better first class offering where passengers could reserve a guaranteed seat, with standard being a free for all.

I agree with what you’re saying, but it’s going to come down to finances, passenger numbers and ease of operating, ultimately.

That’s an interesting proposal, but it would of course reduce Standard Class capacity, which is rarely popular.

What has been lost in the recent discourse, is that the NYMR manages the issues successfully, most of the time and that’s something we should all take a moment to appreciate. There are always going to be mishaps, outliers and people that can’t be pleased.

 

[Swimbar]

I have found a couple of negative comments and plenty of positive ones which heavily outnumber them. Some people will never be happy!

 

[NER1621]

A journey on the NYMR is a completely optional leisure activity, if the trains are full and standing then pretty obviously the fares are too low.

NYMR trains at the beginning and end of the day during peak school holidays on sunny days have been full and standing for decades.

(Perhaps the NYMR should have two day rovers - one at high price valid all year, and one at a lower price valid only for the off-peak timetable days.)

And as for “I live abroad, it’s too expensive for me” a) the brutal truth is that you are such a marginal part of the NYMR’s customer base that this won’t play any part in their pricing strategy and b) given the costs of making a visit to the UK, this seems an odd issue to become price-sensitive over.

Oh, and if the NYMR Day Rover (All-year Rover it should be called) is too pricy for you, then from the NYMR website:

“Shorter Journeys​

Our Shorter Journey Tickets offer day return travel between up to two neighbouring stations at fixed fare prices starting from £13.50 plus Kids Go Free!

Shorter Journey Tickets are not available in advance or online. Purchase them from a Station Booking Office on the day of your visit.”

So just travel between Pickering & Levisham, get off, take some photos, have a cup of tea and a bun, go fo a nice walk in the sun, and then travel back on a non-crowded train to suit you. And your children go free.

 

[railfan99]

And as for “I live abroad, it’s too expensive for me” a) the brutal truth is that you are such a marginal part of the NYMR’s customer base that this won’t play any part in their pricing strategy and b) given the costs of making a visit to the UK, this seems an odd issue to become price-sensitive over.

Oh, and if the NYMR Day Rover (All-year Rover it should be called) is too pricy for you, then from the NYMR website:

“Shorter Journeys​

Our Shorter Journey Tickets offer day return travel between up to two neighbouring stations at fixed fare prices starting from £13.50 plus Kids Go Free!

Shorter Journey Tickets are not available in advance or online. Purchase them from a Station Booking Office on the day of your visit.”

So just travel between Pickering & Levisham, get off, take some photos, have a cup of tea and a bun, go fo a nice walk in the sun, and then travel back on a non-crowded train to suit you. And your children go free.

I acknowledged overseas visitors are a tiny percentage: perhaps one in every 500 or 1000 patrons.

Thanks, but everywhere I go, the objective is to travel whole lines. (I have previously been to NYMR).

Do you have a budget when travelling? One instance of GBP49.50 isn't going to affect my wallet, but if travelling for a month or two months, such instances add up.

 

[ThetrackMaster]

Based on my last couple of visits recently I don’t think the fare is putting visitors off. On both occasions we took the 0920 to Whitby which was full and standing from Pickering. The 1410 return from Whitby busier still, with passengers standing down aisles and corridors. Never known the line so packed, I dare say they could charge more and it would still be popular.

I think you should read a bit more into this.......

This happens more than you think, particularly since the rather expensive fares.

People are parking up in Pickering and using the train for a day out in Whitby, where there is very little parking.

What they are not doing is alighting to use the NYMR facilities en route to purchase food etc, all this is done in Whitby.

The intermediate trains are almost empty.

I journeyed on 5th May & 27th May on mid morning trains (Bank Hol) - carriages were very empty.

I made a note. 11 people got off at Pickering on the 5th and 17 people on the 27th.

I live within 25 miles of the NYMR (and the same distance to the Wensleydale Railway), so I can use my super inflated NYMR annual ticket, but I think those who are holidaying in the area are really being put off.

Interestingly and whilst those out there will say there's no comparison between NYMR and the WR, the Wensleydale Railway charges I believe £20 for an adult return to Leyburn / Redmire (Presently Redmire is closed).

Yes they run heritage diesels rather than steam, however the scenery up into the Yorkshire Dales is awesome, with great views, something you don't get on the NYMR as its mainly within the Moor valleys.
On top of this, they have some great events and its fair to say they seem to be attracting the public particularly at weekends.

Many people think that the Wensleydale Railway is somewhere in the Yorkshire Dales...miles away! Well it isn't.

Journeys can commence from LEEMING BAR near to Northallerton for a nice ride up into the Yorkshire Dales.

I always used to spend any spare time on or around the NYMR, however I now try and ride on the WR more so, because of its journey, location, fares and really nice volunteers.

 

[DarloRich]

Interestingly and whilst those out there will say there's no comparison between NYMR and the WR, the Wensleydale Railway charges I believe £20 for an adult return to Leyburn / Redmire (Presently Redmire is closed).

You are right - there is absolutely no comparison between the NYMR & WR.

I am not saying the Wensleydale isn't nice & the people unfriendly - it just isn't in the same league as the NYMR. It is like Darlington playing Manchester United!

 

[Iskra]

I think you should read a bit more into this.......

This happens more than you think, particularly since the rather expensive fares.

People are parking up in Pickering and using the train for a day out in Whitby, where there is very little parking.

What they are not doing is alighting to use the NYMR facilities en route to purchase food etc, all this is done in Whitby.

The intermediate trains are almost empty.

I journeyed on 5th May & 27th May on mid morning trains (Bank Hol) - carriages were very empty.

I made a note. 11 people got off at Pickering on the 5th and 17 people on the 27th.

I live within 25 miles of the NYMR (and the same distance to the Wensleydale Railway), so I can use my super inflated NYMR annual ticket, but I think those who are holidaying in the area are really being put off.

Interestingly and whilst those out there will say there's no comparison between NYMR and the WR, the Wensleydale Railway charges I believe £20 for an adult return to Leyburn / Redmire (Presently Redmire is closed).

Yes they run heritage diesels rather than steam, however the scenery up into the Yorkshire Dales is awesome, with great views, something you don't get on the NYMR as its mainly within the Moor valleys.
On top of this, they have some great events and its fair to say they seem to be attracting the public particularly at weekends.

Many people think that the Wensleydale Railway is somewhere in the Yorkshire Dales...miles away! Well it isn't.

Journeys can commence from LEEMING BAR near to Northallerton for a nice ride up into the Yorkshire Dales.

I always used to spend any spare time on or around the NYMR, however I now try and ride on the WR more so, because of its journey, location, fares and really nice volunteers.

I’ve also visited the NYMR twice this year (so far). From my observations, the station cafe at Pickering is doing a roaring trade for the first trains of the day to Whitby, which were full on both occasions. Additionally, on one of my return journeys I was sat nearby the catering trolley and it also did a strong trade in booze and coffee. I believe you when you say the intermediate NYMR stations and Grosmont are losing out, with Whitby gaining. A solution for this may be having a lower-priced NYMR-only rover, and a separate Whitby rover, which could also ease capacity on the Whitby services.

I’m not sure the comparison to the Wensleydale Return ticket is all that useful, for the last event I saw them run they were charging £35 for a rover and that was only for 4tpd and two locomotives working. For many more trains, more loco’s (and often more impressive/historic ones) running including steam, a longer journey, a decent seaside town at the end of the line and annual validity; I don’t think the NYMR compares badly at all. I don’t intend to disrespect the Wensleydale here.

 

[SteveM70]

What they are not doing is alighting to use the NYMR facilities en route to purchase food etc, all this is done in Whitby.

Absolutely this. Whitby Coop gets swamped when the morning NYMR service arrives; everyone heading to the beach stocks up on picnic stuff and pootles off

 

[Belperpete]

I am sorry but this is nothing to do with the fare. It is very simple - when the train is full you stop issuing tickets! Is that really so difficult? Passengers booking in advance have to specify what train they intend travelling out on, so you should know how many seats are left over for "on the day" bookings. From my reading of the website, those with an annual season are still required to get a ticket for that day from the booking office. So once you have reached the train's capacity, you just stop issuing tickets. For there to be standing passengers on the outward journey is completely inexcusable.

If I turn up on spec at a restaurant without a booking, it is perfectly possible that they will say that they are fully booked. However, if I book a table in advance, I don't expect to find that they have given it away to someone who just turned up. If I have not only booked but PAID in advance for a place on the train, I don't expect to find that there are no seats left and I am having to stand. That is totally unacceptable.

If there is a danger of the Whitby services being withdrawn because of the bad reviews, as suggested by a previous poster, then surely they should be doing something to address the cause of those reviews. I am afraid that blaming the passengers for being unreasonable is symptomatic of the NYMR's attitude to customer service.

 

[HST43257]

Diesel Gala timetable is out. Friday features Pickering to Levisham shuttles, while Saturday and Sunday feature Goathland to Grosmont shuttles (and vice versa in all cases), mainly every couple of hours, while full route (Pickering to Grosmont) trains operate every 60-75 minutes on each day. No loco allocs as far as I can see yet.