NYMR news and updates.

[jamestclarkson]

Any News on Repton? I think i remember it going in for winter maintenance later than the other steam locomotives but still havent seen it running this year. Is it out of ticket or is there a bigger issue?

 

[Egton]

I don’t think withdrawing the Whitby services would be a good idea, unless the decision is taken out of their hands with CDL requirements etc. The reason the railway is struggling to manage capacity is because it is a victim of its own success, and running to Whitby has been a game changer for the NYMR. I remember going when it only ran to Grosmont and it was never anywhere near as busy as it is now. Whitby is an ideal day trip destination, and Pickering is in prime North Yorkshire Moors holiday territory, whereas apart from the loco depot and cafe there’s not a lot at Grosmont.

It’s a shame trains are limited to 6 coaches, I assume this is because of passing/run round loops. Maybe the ideal compromise would be a better first class offering where passengers could reserve a guaranteed seat, with standard being a free for all.

Maximum train length one loco can run round at Pickering is 9 coaches - but even then loco is foul of track circuits when re-attached - signals cannot be cleared - much faffing phoning signalman for permission to pass signals at danger
so - 8 coaches is the normal operating maximum. Diner Train used to load to 8 when carrying both Diner and ordinary passengers - but 3 miles at 1 in 49 from a standing start at Grosmont is only comfortably handled by their a 9F,
WD 2-10-0, or S15 - so 7 coaches is the normal service train limit. Usual consist is a BSO / RMB / CK / TSO x3 / plus TSO modified for disabled access - total seating capacity 377. In 44 years I have never seen an NYMR train with all seats occupied, but as most passengers are families / groups of friends who [quite rightly] want to sit together, I have seen many trains with standing on busy days. Wednesdays is usually the busiest day of the week, closely followed by Tuesday and Thursday, whilst Fridays are usually the quietest day of the week. Loadings do vary noticeably dependant on the weather on the day. The introduction of pre-booking did help reduce the weather induced fluctuations in loadings - though it did not guarantee a seat. In years gone charging higher fares during peak holiday periods was used to try and "manage" demand. Immediately post Post covid pre booked seat reservations, and reserved seats sold on the day subject to availability did eliminate standing, but passengers could only travel on their specified train, and if you had not pre-booked on a busy day - you might have been turned away. Currently the standard railway practise of turn up and go is the rule. Limited availability of train paths between Grosmont and Whitby, and long sections of single track are also a significant constraint on timetable options.

 

[Trestrol]

Also they have to take into account Grosmont bank, the locos available dictate how many carriages that can be hauled up the bank. Yes you could provide a banker but that's extra fuel and staff to find.

 

[12C]

Maximum train length one loco can run round at Pickering is 9 coaches - but even then loco is foul of track circuits when re-attached - signals cannot be cleared - much faffing phoning signalman for permission to pass signals at danger
so - 8 coaches is the normal operating maximum. Diner Train used to load to 8 when carrying both Diner and ordinary passengers - but 3 miles at 1 in 49 from a standing start at Grosmont is only comfortably handled by their a 9F,
WD 2-10-0, or S15 - so 7 coaches is the normal service train limit. Usual consist is a BSO / RMB / CK / TSO x3 / plus TSO modified for disabled access - total seating capacity 377. In 44 years I have never seen an NYMR train with all seats occupied, but as most passengers are families / groups of friends who [quite rightly] want to sit together, I have seen many trains with standing on busy days. Wednesdays is usually the busiest day of the week, closely followed by Tuesday and Thursday, whilst Fridays are usually the quietest day of the week. Loadings do vary noticeably dependant on the weather on the day. The introduction of pre-booking did help reduce the weather induced fluctuations in loadings - though it did not guarantee a seat. In years gone charging higher fares during peak holiday periods was used to try and "manage" demand. Immediately post Post covid pre booked seat reservations, and reserved seats sold on the day subject to availability did eliminate standing, but passengers could only travel on their specified train, and if you had not pre-booked on a busy day - you might have been turned away. Currently the standard railway practise of turn up and go is the rule. Limited availability of train paths between Grosmont and Whitby, and long sections of single track are also a significant constraint on timetable options.

Thanks for the info. In that case, on the day we last visited during May half term, it’s a shame they didn’t put another coach on the Whitby service as this was 6 coaches and absolutely packed both ways. We had a similar experience last year when Sir Nigel Gresley was visiting, the Whitby set was 6 Mk1s (full and standing) which is why I assumed that must be the limit.

We did notice ‘internal’ service was relatively quiet. If there is no spare stock maybe taking a coach off this and adding it onto the Whitby set for peak times would be a good idea.

 

[SeanG]

What also annoys me when it is busy is the people who a) are a couple and sit in a compartment and spread out as to not let others sit in there, and b) people who will not enter said compartment to fill it up.
The same goes with fitting 4 people round a table - people are unwilling or in some cases unable to do this.
Capacity is at a premium on certain trains so needs to be maximised and sometimes the travelling public don't help.


Another issue is the number of dogs on trains. I understand that many wish to take their pooch out for the day with them, however not everyone enjoys dogs (I for one am petrified) so will not sit in the vicinity of dogs, especially very large ones. I suggested to the NYMR that perhaps there could be a dedicated coach for dogs, and that perhaps there could be a dedicated 'dog free' coach (not including assistance dogs etc of course) but received the response along the lines of 'everyone likes dogs so we don't see a problem'. Again this limits capacity as some people won't / can't sit near dogs where there may be free seats, not to mention those who seem to think its ok for a dog to occupy a seat (but that is a separate issue).

 

[paul1609]

Thanks for the info. In that case, on the day we last visited during May half term, it’s a shame they didn’t put another coach on the Whitby service as this was 6 coaches and absolutely packed both ways. We had a similar experience last year when Sir Nigel Gresley was visiting, the Whitby set was 6 Mk1s (full and standing) which is why I assumed that must be the limit.

We did notice ‘internal’ service was relatively quiet. If there is no spare stock maybe taking a coach off this and adding it onto the Whitby set for peak times would be a good idea.

Theres different standards for internal coaches and those that work to Whitby which are required to be mainline registered which entails retention toilets and secondary door locks. I think that an additional steward might be required for a 7th coach under the latest regulations but I'm not sure.

 

[12C]

Theres different standards for internal coaches and those that work to Whitby which are required to be mainline registered which entails retention toilets and secondary door locks. I think that an additional steward might be required for a 7th coach under the latest regulations but I'm not sure.

I’m sure the 2 rakes of Mk1s in regular use (one Maroon set and one Carmine/cream) are both passed to Whitby, I’ve certainly travelled on both rakes on the main line section in the past year or so.

 

[paul1609]

I’m sure the 2 rakes of Mk1s in regular use (one Maroon set and one Carmine/cream) are both passed to Whitby, I’ve certainly travelled on both rakes on the main line section in the past year or so.

You could well be right, its some years since ive been to the NYMR. As I understood their retention tank project it involved 13 coaches but that included some pullman coaches for their dining train. presumably some mainline coaches dont have toilets. How many mainline coaches they have available at any one time once you take in to account maintenance and overhauls I dont know but I suspect its probably not as simple as taking a coach out of the internal set to supplement the mainline set.

 

[Trestrol]

You could well be right, its some years since ive been to the NYMR. As I understood their retention tank project it involved 13 coaches but that included some pullman coaches for their dining train. presumably some mainline coaches dont have toilets. How many mainline coaches they have available at any one time once you take in to account maintenance and overhauls I dont know but I suspect its probably not as simple as taking a coach out of the internal set to supplement the mainline set.

Coaches have to be registered for the main line so it's not a simple task to swap an unregistered one in.

 

[12C]

Coaches have to be registered for the main line so it's not a simple task to swap an unregistered one in.

Just to clarify, on my last visit in half term both the rakes on the Whitby and internal turns were main line registered, having travelled on both sets to Whitby fairly recently. I appreciate there may be other factors involved such as extra stewarding. But if it is possible, adding an extra coach on the Whitby rake might be a good idea in high season, even if it meant one less on the internal service.

 

[Trestrol]

But not if you haven't got an engine able to pull it up the 1 in 49 Grosmont bank. They won't shunt an extra carriage on or off as a strengthener because a guard was killed many years ago during a shunt move.

 

[DarloRich]

as an aside to the £49 ticket debate above a friend informs me that children up to 15 travel free which seems a further positive aspect to these ticketing arrangements.

 

[paul1609]

But not if you haven't got an engine able to pull it up the 1 in 49 Grosmont bank. They won't shunt an extra carriage on or off as a strengthener because a guard was killed many years ago during a shunt move.

Cant speak for the NYMR but as a guard I regularly shunt vehicles on and off at the K&ESR to meet demand (quite often with a NYMR driver) as well as to meet the maintenance requirements for exams etc.

 

[signed]

Spotted the replacement (of the deltic 55009 for the Diesel Gala) 37418 at a siding in Chester this morning together with 37508

 

[Trestrol]

Cant speak for the NYMR but as a guard I regularly shunt vehicles on and off at the K&ESR to meet demand (quite often with a NYMR driver) as well as to meet the maintenance requirements for exams etc.

The NYMR used to all the time but moved to fixed rakes after the guard was crushed.

 

[Egton]

Thanks for the info. In that case, on the day we last visited during May half term, it’s a shame they didn’t put another coach on the Whitby service as this was 6 coaches and absolutely packed both ways. We had a similar experience last year when Sir Nigel Gresley was visiting, the Whitby set was 6 Mk1s (full and standing) which is why I assumed that must be the limit.

We did notice ‘internal’ service was relatively quiet. If there is no spare stock maybe taking a coach off this and adding it onto the Whitby set for peak times would be a good idea.

In theory the NYMR has 3 rakes of 7 coaches registered to run to Whitby. Two Whitby sets are required in traffic daily throughout the season for the usual four trains into / out of Whitby - with all three sets required daily in the peak season with five trains into / out of Whitby. However the NYMR has a significant backlog of maintenance on the 35 to 40 coaches usually required for traffic - following on from covid lockdown - worn tyres seem to be a particular problem. The teak set, used on internal services is not available this season because of this, and the decision was made earlier in the year not to run the fifth Whitby service [requiring the 3rd Whitby set] during the summer peak as they were struggling to provide enough stock.
Whitby sets require detailed Network rail compliant fitness to run exams twice a week, and any change in train formation invalidates that fitness to run certificate, hence sets cannot be strengthened or altered between exams.
Running with less than 7 when it is busy suggests non availability of sufficient Network Rail registered stock that were fit to pass the twice weekly examination

 

[EbbwJunction1]

Another issue is the number of dogs on trains. I understand that many wish to take their pooch out for the day with them, however not everyone enjoys dogs (I for one am petrified) so will not sit in the vicinity of dogs, especially very large ones. I suggested to the NYMR that perhaps there could be a dedicated coach for dogs, and that perhaps there could be a dedicated 'dog free' coach (not including assistance dogs etc of course) but received the response along the lines of 'everyone likes dogs so we don't see a problem'. Again this limits capacity as some people won't / can't sit near dogs where there may be free seats, not to mention those who seem to think its ok for a dog to occupy a seat (but that is a separate issue).

Slightly off topic, I know, but I noticed a couple of weeks ago that the Welsh Highland Railway operate a "Dog Free" coach between Porthmadog and Caernarfon. It seemed to work well on a very busy train - I sat in it both ways!

 

[kje7812]

In theory the NYMR has 3 rakes of 7 coaches registered to run to Whitby. Two Whitby sets are required in traffic daily throughout the season for the usual four trains into / out of Whitby - with all three sets required daily in the peak season with five trains into / out of Whitby. However the NYMR has a significant backlog of maintenance on the 35 to 40 coaches usually required for traffic - following on from covid lockdown - worn tyres seem to be a particular problem. The teak set, used on internal services is not available this season because of this, and the decision was made earlier in the year not to run the fifth Whitby service [requiring the 3rd Whitby set] during the summer peak as they were struggling to provide enough stock.
Whitby sets require detailed Network rail compliant fitness to run exams twice a week, and any change in train formation invalidates that fitness to run certificate, hence sets cannot be strengthened or altered between exams.
Running with less than 7 when it is busy suggests non availability of sufficient Network Rail registered stock that were fit to pass the twice weekly examination

The latest Moorsline magazine confirms they are short of coaches and in fact don't have enough coaches to run the Gold timetable (the high summer service). Additional stock is apparently being arranged.

 

[Iskra]

The latest Moorsline magazine confirms they are short of coaches and in fact don't have enough coaches to run the Gold timetable (the high summer service). Additional stock is apparently being arranged.

Is there a serviceable DMU that could fill the gap? The green one (101?) was looking a bit tatty and forlorn on my last visit?

 

[Gwr12345]

Is there a serviceable DMU that could fill the gap? The green one (101?) was looking a bit tatty and forlorn on my last visit?

I think they've decide that's up for scrap and is life expired, but I can't remember my source or if it was this DMU.

 

[Trestrol]

The DMU the railway own is shot and only fit for scrap. The one they hire (Daisy) needs extensive work as well. A classic case of skimping on maintenance coming back to bite you in the future.

 

[30907]

The latest Moorsline magazine confirms they are short of coaches and in fact don't have enough coaches to run the Gold timetable (the high summer service). Additional stock is apparently being arranged.

WCR seem to have a non-CDL set to spare - it has just returned from Swanage

 

[Trestrol]

Yes but knowing WCR they will want an arm and a leg to hire it. But seriously hiring carriages to increase capacity is great if you are short. But if you are hiring are you spending the money to you should be spending on repairing your carriages?

 

[SeanG]

I think the DMU would be useful on midweek services in the shoulder seasons - surely they can't be that busy on a wet Tuesday in April yet they run a full timetable still

 

[Iskra]

I think the DMU would be useful on midweek services in the shoulder seasons - surely they can't be that busy on a wet Tuesday in April yet they run a full timetable still

I’ve been in January and April on a damp Tuesday this year and Whitby services were busy both times.

A DMU would be fine on internal services though I think.

 

[D6130]

I’ve been in January and April on a damp Tuesday this year and Whitby services were busy both times.

A DMU would be fine on internal services though I think.

Back in the 1970s and '80s, they used to run a four car (2 x 2 car) Gloucester Railway Carriage & Wagon Co. Class 100 unit - painted in LNER green and cream tourist livery - advertised as a 'panoramic observation ' service. I had several very enjoyable trips on it. I wonder what happened to it?

 

[SeanG]

A DMU would be fine on internal services though I think.

Yes I agree and with the above post that they could be marketed as a panoramic explorer.

 

[Egton]

Back in the 1970s and '80s, they used to run a four car (2 x 2 car) Gloucester Railway Carriage & Wagon Co. Class 100 unit - painted in LNER green and cream tourist livery - advertised as a 'panoramic observation ' service. I had several very enjoyable trips on it. I wonder what happened to it?

The two 2 car Class 100 Gloucester DMU units left the NYMR in the early 1980's - and went to the West Somerset ? One unit was subsequently scrapped. the other unit is, I believe, under restoration at the Midland Railway.
There are currently two Class 101 Met Cam units on the NYMR - their own 2 car unit has been out of traffic for several years and is destined for scrap. The other 3 car unit [of which only the centre car is NYMR owned] has been withdrawn from traffic within the past twelve months, needing over £200,000 [which the railway does not have] to make it fit for use again.

 

[D Williams]

The two 2 car Class 100 Gloucester DMU units left the NYMR in the early 1980's - and went to the West Somerset ? One unit was subsequently scrapped. the other unit is, I believe, under restoration at the Midland Railway.
There are currently two Class 101 Met Cam units on the NYMR - their own 2 car unit has been out of traffic for several years and is destined for scrap. The other 3 car unit [of which only the centre car is NYMR owned] has been withdrawn from traffic within the past twelve months, needing over £200,000 [which the railway does not have] to make it fit for use again.

DMUs are OK if a) there is a dedicated group to keep them in working order or b) if you have nothing else to run a train service.

 

[Iskra]

DMUs are OK if a) there is a dedicated group to keep them in working order or b) if you have nothing else to run a train service.

They’d be particularly useful on the NYMR at this point to take the pressure off the coaching fleet and by offering a timetabled train that is only a few carriages long which would be a waste of 6/7 carriages on an internal NYMR diagram. I wouldn’t normally advocate for them on a railway such as the NYMR, but right now they’d offer a great solution and larger railways can get away with having them operating without deterring passengers, by also offering 2/3 other proper locomotives working on the same day. DMU’s will also be useful if there’s a fire risk, as the diesel loco fleet is a bit thin up there at the moment from memory.