Off-Peak Day Travelcard Zones 1-6 from outside of London - 2 questions about extensions

[trainJam]

I have two questions about the Off-Peak Day Travelcard (day return to London from outside combined with Z1-6 travelcard) mainly about going out of zone 6.

1. Firstly, how can I travel on a bus which will take me outside of the zones? Would I need to tap on the bus at the last stop before going out of zone 6? How would I know when to do this?

An Off-Peak Day Travelcard allow customers to travel to London and enjoy unlimited travel throughout London on National Rail, London Underground, DLR, London Trams and London Bus services within Zones 1-6.

Off-Peak Day Travelcard | National Rail

Looking for Off-Peak Day Travelcard? A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

2. Secondly, suppose I take the bus from Q1 and wish to return by National Rail (single journey). What ticket should I buy, and can I get it at that station?

 

[jfollows]

1. You can travel in zones 1-9 by bus with your Travelcard. no need to pay extra.
2. Buy a single from your station to "boundary zone 6", which you should be able to buy at the station as long as it has an open ticket office

 

[JonathanH]

1. Firstly, how can I travel on a bus which will take me outside of the zones? Would I need to tap on the bus at the last stop before going out of zone 6? How would I know when to do this?

Zone 1-6 travelcards are valid on all TfL bus services throughout their journey, including beyond the boundary of Zone 6.

 

[danm14]

I have two questions about the Off-Peak Day Travelcard (day return to London from outside combined with Z1-6 travelcard) mainly about going out of zone 6.

1. Firstly, how can I travel on a bus which will take me outside of the zones? Would I need to tap on the bus at the last stop before going out of zone 6? How would I know when to do this?

Off-Peak Day Travelcard | National Rail

Looking for Off-Peak Day Travelcard? A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

2. Secondly, suppose I take the bus from Q1 and wish to return by National Rail (single journey). What ticket should I buy, and can I get it at that station?

Any London Travelcard, regardless of what zones it covers, covers the entire London Bus network, including the parts of it which are outside the London zones.

Any London Travelcard which covers any one or more of Zones 3, 4, 5 and 6, covers the entire London Trams network.

 

[furlong]

1. Buy a single from your station to "boundary zone 6", which you should be able to buy at the station as long as it has an open ticket office

Or online from a website such as https://www.c2c-online.co.uk/ which offers these tickets (and assumes a journey schedule into the appropriate London terminal). Many station ticket machines offer them too.

 

[trainJam]

I am a bit confused as National Rail enquiries says "London Bus services within Zones 1-6."
Is there an official source I can show if I get questioned?

 

[jfollows]

I am a bit confused as National Rail enquiries says "London Bus services within Zones 1-6."
Is there an official source I can show if I get questioned?

It's not hard to find:

Travelcards and group tickets

What Travelcards and group tickets are and where they can be used

tfl.gov.uk

Where can I use Travelcards?
Buses and trams

You can use Travelcards on all buses. If your Travelcard is valid in Zones 3, 4, 5 or 6, you can use it on all trams.

 

[danm14]

I am a bit confused as National Rail enquiries says "London Bus services within Zones 1-6."
Is there an official source I can show if I get questioned?

You will not in a million years be questioned over, or even have the slightest issue in doing this. It is fully understood by every London bus driver and revenue staff.

Travelcards and group tickets

What Travelcards and group tickets are and where they can be used

tfl.gov.uk

Buses and trams
You can use Travelcards on all buses. If your Travelcard is valid in Zones 3, 4, 5 or 6, you can use it on all trams.

 

[trainJam]

Alright, thanks for clearing that up. Can't be too sure about ticketing.

 

[Kite159]

1. You can travel in zones 1-9 by bus with your Travelcard. no need to pay extra.
2. Buy a single from your station to "boundary zone 6", which you should be able to buy at the station as long as it has an open ticket office

And has a member of staff who knows how to sell a ticket from boundary zone 6 rather than from the last station in zone 6.

 

[miklcct]

You can also buy a boundary zone 6 ticket from a ticket machine by choosing tickets from another station, and the options for the boundary zones will come up.

 

[Surreytraveller]

1. You can travel in zones 1-9 by bus with your Travelcard. no need to pay extra.
2. Buy a single from your station to "boundary zone 6", which you should be able to buy at the station as long as it has an open ticket office

There's no such thing as zones on a London Bus. A London Bus is a London Bus, and any Travelcard is valid on any London Bus regardless of what zones the Travelcard is valid for

I have two questions about the Off-Peak Day Travelcard (day return to London from outside combined with Z1-6 travelcard) mainly about going out of zone 6.

1. Firstly, how can I travel on a bus which will take me outside of the zones? Would I need to tap on the bus at the last stop before going out of zone 6? How would I know when to do this?

Off-Peak Day Travelcard | National Rail

Looking for Off-Peak Day Travelcard? A portal into UK rail travel, including information on ticket purchase and promotions, train times and delays, and more.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

2. Secondly, suppose I take the bus from Q1 and wish to return by National Rail (single journey). What ticket should I buy, and can I get it at that station?

Travelcards are only valid on London Buses (I don't think there are any independents they're valid on these days). You show a paper Travelcard to the driver, or if its on an Oystercard you tap it on the reader. Zones don't come into it.

I am a bit confused as National Rail enquiries says "London Bus services within Zones 1-6."
Is there an official source I can show if I get questioned?

National Rail Enquiries is wrong.

 

[Kite159]

You can also buy a boundary zone 6 ticket from a ticket machine by choosing tickets from another station, and the options for the boundary zones will come up.

Not all TVMs are set up to sell Boundary Zone tickets (or even have the ability to sell from another station).

 

[trainJam]

National Rail Enquiries is wrong.

Seems like passengers can't trust anything.

 

[miklcct]

There are no zones on London Buses at all. Any Travelcard is valid on any London Bus service, including those running to far outside Greater London Boundary, such as 405 to Redhill.

 

[trainJam]

Oyster, Contactless and Travelcards | National Rail

You can use Oyster, Contactless and Travelcards to travel on National Rail services within London Zonal Area (1 to 9)

www.nationalrail.co.uk

You can use it on all London Buses and, if valid in zones 3, 4, 5 or 6, on all London Trams.

I've found another page on the same NRE website which seems to contradict the other travelcard page...

 

[Hadders]

A Travelcard is valid on all London Buses. End of.

A Travelcard with validity that includes any of zones 3,4,5 or 6 is valid on the London Tram network.

 

[etr221]

A Travelcard is valid on all London Buses. End of.

While it is true that "A Travelcard is valid on all London Buses" this means buses run on behalf of TfL as part of the London Bus network - including when they run outside Greater London/Zones 1-6 - there are also 'non-London' buses which run from outside Greater London into it (and so Zones 6-1 - most do not go very far in): these do not appear on the TfL website and, AIUI, do not accept Travelcards (either in or out of Greater London/Zones 1-6)

In short, there is a distinction between "London Buses" (Travelcards accepted) and "Buses running in Greater London" - they are not always the same.

 

[MikeWh]

In short, there is a distinction between "London Buses" (Travelcards accepted) and "Buses running in Greater London" - they are not always the same.

Could you possibly provide some example route numbers and start/end towns of buses not run on behalf of TfL?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Could you possibly provide some example route numbers and start/end towns of buses not run on behalf of TfL?

Uno's 614, running from Queensbury to Hatfield via Burnt Oak, Edgware and Barnet springs to mind.

And, of course, the erstwhile 84 between New Barnet and St Albans until Metroline withdrew it. Sullivans replacement only runs between Potters Bar and St Albans.

Conversely, you have TfL buses on route 81 running out to Slough...and there are TfL flags at stops along the A4 in Slough as a result.

 

[Haywain]

Could you possibly provide some example route numbers and start/end towns of buses not run on behalf of TfL?

610 Cockfosters to Luton.

 

[etr221]

Could you possibly provide some example route numbers and start/end towns of buses not run on behalf of TfL?

Metrobus 420 Sutton-Redhill-Whitebushes-Gatwick is another example. Checking, this did show up in TfL's journey planner as a Sutton to Redhill option, but not on the 'what buses from Sutton or Redhill' map displays.

They used to be listed on TfL's 'quadrant' bus maps; and there is an on line list at https://bus-routes-in-london.fandom.com/wiki/Non-TfL_bus_routes_in_Greater_London , but I don't know how accurate/complete/up to date it is: e.g. Arriva Shires route 8 is now the 508 (Northwood Mount Vernon Hospital-Hemel Hempstead).

Also worth pointing out is that, apart from Travelcards, they tend not to accept Oyster...

Interesting to compare this issue (Boundary Zone 6/Buses) with that faced in defining the erstwhile London Passenger Transport Area (for the LPTB/London Transport) - which was essentially agreed by the busmen, based on the services they were running back in 1931: see https://machorne.wordpress.com/2019/12/22/the-london-passenger-transport-area-an-explanation/

 

[Alex365Dash]

Also worth pointing out is that, apart from Travelcards, they tend not to accept Oyster...

The exception being Diamond South East where a section of route on three bus services does accept Oyster…for a discounted Oyster Price Match fare at £1.70 which then needs to be paid by cash or contactless!

 

[etr221]

The exception being Diamond South East where a section of route on three bus services does accept Oyster…for a discounted Oyster Price Match fare at £1.70 which then needs to be paid by cash or contactless!

If I understand what they're doing correctly, they are not accepting Oyster: rather they are giving a discounted fare (matching that normally charged on Oyster) to holders of Oyster cards. Position over Travelcards is unclear!

 

[Joe Paxton]

Metrobus 420 Sutton-Redhill-Whitebushes-Gatwick is another example. Checking, this did show up in TfL's journey planner as a Sutton to Redhill option, but not on the 'what buses from Sutton or Redhill' map displays.

They used to be listed on TfL's 'quadrant' bus maps; and there is an on line list at https://bus-routes-in-london.fandom.com/wiki/Non-TfL_bus_routes_in_Greater_London , but I don't know how accurate/complete/up to date it is: e.g. Arriva Shires route 8 is now the 508 (Northwood Mount Vernon Hospital-Hemel Hempstead).

Also worth pointing out is that, apart from Travelcards, they tend not to accept Oyster...

Your sentence isn't entirely clear (though I think I know what you're getting at given the context of the rest of this thread!)... but for the sake of clarity, Travelcards are (nowadays) not accepted on non-TfL bus routes. (In years gone by there were a number of arrangements for non-LT/TfL routes around the periphery of Greater London whereby LT/TfL tickets were partially accepted, but this is no more.)

The exception being Diamond South East where a section of route on three bus services does accept Oyster…for a discounted Oyster Price Match fare at £1.70 which then needs to be paid by cash or contactless!

If I understand what they're doing correctly, they are not accepting Oyster: rather they are giving a discounted fare (matching that normally charged on Oyster) to holders of Oyster cards. Position over Travelcards is unclear!

A number of operators have offered an 'Oyster Price Match' fare, and yes, that's how it works - drivers just want to have sight of an Oyster card (for each passenger) in order to offer the discounted fare.

 

[danm14]

A number of operators have offered an 'Oyster Price Match' fare, and yes, that's how it works - drivers just want to have sight of an Oyster card (for each passenger) in order to offer the discounted fare.

Although it is stated as a requirement, on the couple of occasions I've used Diamond Buses, the drivers had no desire to see an Oyster card before offering the Oyster Match fare and just charged it as standard to all passengers travelling within the relevant area.

With the overwhelming move by London Bus passengers away from Oyster towards contactless, I suspect they get more money overall this way - after all the sole aim of the Oyster Match fare was to encourage passengers that would otherwise wait for a (cheaper) London Bus not to do so.

I am, however, mildly surprised that the Oyster Match fare wasn't pulled when they joined the £2 fare cap scheme. I would've thought the extra subsidy (based on the "full" fare) would have massively outweighed the few passengers they'd lose by being 25p more expensive than London Buses.

 

[Benjwri]

Speaking of buses and travelcards, does anyone know anything about an ITSO loaded out boundary travelcard on a bus? I've always assumed it wouldn't work, but never actually tried.

 

[MikeWh]

Speaking of buses and travelcards, does anyone know anything about an ITSO loaded out boundary travelcard on a bus? I've always assumed it wouldn't work, but never actually tried.

My understanding is that it will work fine. Oyster readers can read ITSO cards and if they find a travelcard product then they'll act accordingly.

 

[Haywain]

Speaking of buses and travelcards, does anyone know anything about an ITSO loaded out boundary travelcard on a bus? I've always assumed it wouldn't work, but never actually tried.

Of course they work. Train companies pay TfL a significant amount of money to set up, test and ensure acceptance on all relevant modes.

 

[etr221]

Speaking of buses and travelcards, does anyone know anything about an ITSO loaded out boundary travelcard on a bus? I've always assumed it wouldn't work, but never actually tried.

My understanding is that it will work fine. Oyster readers can read ITSO cards and if they find a travelcard product then they'll act accordingly.

Of course they work. Train companies pay TfL a significant amount of money to set up, test and ensure acceptance on all relevant modes.

Are we talking about 'London Buses', i.e. run for TfL with Oyster readers, or 'non London Buses', without Oyster readers, but possibly with ITSO readers, here?
I would expect an ITSO loaded travelcard to be read ok, and accepted as valid for travel when and where appropriate, (as MikeWh and Haywain say) for the former, but for not accepted on the latter, even when there is an ITSO reader, as not being a valid authority to travel.