Off Peak Kings Cross to King's Lynn Services

[HST Power]

Simple question really, how busy are these trains?

In the afternoon, some Kings Cross to Kings Lynn services go via Letchworth and Royston, or Royston only.

In the Off-Peak, they run non-stop to Cambridge, then all stops to Lynn.

But is there really a big market to go non-stop from London to Cambridge at eleven o'clock in the morning?

Taken as a whole, what are the off-peak loadings like?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Don't know about the southern end but Ely to King's Lynn is always fairly busy whenever I have used it - and places like Downham & Watlington always add quite a few.

 

[philjo]

Some of them are very busy- I think a few of them are 8 coaches even during the day.
Cambridge has a large tourist market as well as the University/business travel.

 

[A-driver]

Cambridge semi fast and cruisers are well used all through the day. Weekends can be standing room only theoughout the day, especially in the summer.

During the week off peak trains generally don't have people standing and there are often free seats but they are still pretty busy, certainly well used.

As said, Cambridge has a heavy flow throughout the day because of the uni and various businesses up there, plus the cruisers are used a lot for connections from London to March and local services to Ipswich & Norwich.

 

[dk1]

They are always well used. Only reason they stop between Kings Cross & Cambridge & vice versa in the peak is for pathing reasons on the ECML & these trains operate as 8/12 cars instead of off peak 4. Even then many continue to operate as 8 anyway. Certain. Trains during peak hours also attatch/detach at Royston & Cambridge. North of Cambridge many of the Lynn trains operate full & standing to Ely. These will go half hourly once Ely North Junction is re-doubled.

Weekend services throughout the route are very heavily loaded.

 

[NSE]

I use them almost daily, and the demand is very much there. I use the 18:44 occasionally on a Monday (if I'm much early than my usual 19:15) and although it stops at Royston, it's rammed till Cambridge. Even off peak, there's normally seats here and there but you'd be hard pushed to find a 2 or a 4 all to yourself on a four car train.

 

[causton]

Only used the Cruisers once (living in Hatfield, it's hard to actually find an excuse to use them otherwise ) and it was midweek around midday. And yes it was rather busy, with the only seats being 2 of a 4 next to the disabled toilet and I'm pretty sure some more people came up to fill the other 2 just before departure! It was like it all the way down the 4 cars as well.

 

[secludedsfx]

Almost all the services are 8 car and decouple at Cambridge to continue onwards as 4 cars.
Living around Lynn I've used these trains and I would say that they do require the frequency they have and I feel that the other Cambridge Flyer should start from Ely to make Ely a more useful interchange for those traveling to/from London to the Fens.

 

[A-driver]

Almost all the services are 8 car and decouple at Cambridge to continue onwards as 4 cars.
Living around Lynn I've used these trains and I would say that they do require the frequency they have and I feel that the other Cambridge Flyer should start from Ely to make Ely a more useful interchange for those traveling to/from London to the Fens.

Running the second cruiser to Ely as an 8 car (missing water each) has been discussed before but never done for various reasons but they are talking about doing it if/ when the new station opens at Cambridge.

 

[cle]

And the Kings Lynn service will eventually run as 2tph once Thameslink KO2 is up and running.

 

[jopsuk]

South of Cambridge it's a busy, usually 8-car, service twice an hour all day. There's also an hourly semi-fast service (stps Royston, Baldock, Letchworth, Hitchin, Stevenage, Finsbury Park)- this isn't (unlike the stopper that calls everywhere to Potters Bar then fast to Finsbury Park) overtaken and is I'm pretty sure mainly booked as an 8-carriage. Plus two trains an hour to liverpool street, which again can be 8 car, and of which the faster one is certainly a viable alternative to a Kings Cross train if headed for the City.

Because the services are so numerous and so quick, and because getting from the m11 to central London by road is torturous, there is almost no competition from coaches. There's a single National Express every hour, taking about two hours to get to Victoria (timetable).

Compare this all to Oxford- similar size, similar demographic. Oxford has less trains, on a single route, taking slightly longer (despite being the same distance), to a terminal further from the City and Whitehall, plus there's a (relatively) good road all the way in from the m25. Thus the coach service is much, much more frequenent and competitive.

 

[87015]

South of Cambridge it's a busy, usually 8-car, service twice an hour all day. There's also an hourly semi-fast service (stps Royston, Baldock, Letchworth, Hitchin, Stevenage, Finsbury Park)- this isn't (unlike the stopper that calls everywhere to Potters Bar then fast to Finsbury Park) overtaken and is I'm pretty sure mainly booked as an 8-carriage. Plus two trains an hour to liverpool street, which again can be 8 car, and of which the faster one is certainly a viable alternative to a Kings Cross train if headed for the City.

Because the services are so numerous and so quick, and because getting from the m11 to central London by road is torturous, there is almost no competition from coaches. There's a single National Express every hour, taking about two hours to get to Victoria (timetable).

Compare this all to Oxford- similar size, similar demographic. Oxford has less trains, on a single route, taking slightly longer (despite being the same distance), to a terminal further from the City and Whitehall, plus there's a (relatively) good road all the way in from the m25. Thus the coach service is much, much more frequenent and competitive.

You can't really say most off-peak trains are 8 cars, unless they are having a mass short form today...

 09:15 09:21 1T56 KINGSLYNN 08:27 365521 365509 365527      
 ***** 09:29 1C85 CAMBRIDGE 09:29 365535                    
 09:45 09:51 1T57 KINGSLYNN 08:59 365518 365533             
 ***** 09:55 2C62 CAMBRIDGE 09:55 317342                    
 ***** 10:15 1C58 CAMBRIDGE 10:15 365505 365528             
 10:26 10:30 1T86 ELY       10:11 365538                    
 10:45 10:51 1T59 KINGSLYNN 09:59 365507 365504             
 ***** 10:55 2C64 CAMBRIDGE 10:55 317347                    
 ***** 11:15 1C60 CAMBRIDGE 11:15 365508                    
 ***** 11:30 1C87 CAMBRIDGE 11:30 365522                    
 11:44 11:45 1T61 KINGSLYNN 10:56 365510                    
 ***** 11:55 2C66 CAMBRIDGE 11:55 365529                    
 ***** 12:15 1C62 CAMBRIDGE 12:15 365533                    
 ***** 12:30 1C88 CAMBRIDGE 12:30 365518                    
 12:42 12:45 1T63 KINGSLYNN 11:56 365539 
 ***** 13:15 1C64 CAMBRIDGE 13:15 365505 365528           
 ***** 13:30 1C89 CAMBRIDGE 13:30 365506 365540           
 13:44 13:45 1T65 KINGSLYNN 12:56 365521                  
 ***** 13:55 2C70 CAMBRIDGE 13:55 365507                  
 ***** 14:15 1C66 CAMBRIDGE 14:15 365525 365530           
 ***** 14:30 1C90 CAMBRIDGE 14:30 365522 365510           
 14:41 14:45 1T67 KINGSLYNN 13:56 365538                  
 ***** 14:55 2C72 CAMBRIDGE 14:55 317341

 

[secludedsfx]

You can't really say most off-peak trains are 8 cars, unless they are having a mass short form today...

I think he was on about the Lynn Flyers, not all services out of Cambridge to Cross.