Off route split ticketing?

[robbeech]

* Though I suspect Trainline will do that now as it does splits.

Yes and no. As a rule no, they don’t offer splits “off route” so to speak, but there are some puzzling alternatives, Leeds to London isn’t valid via York, (but York to London is valid via Leeds) but Trainline will offer Leeds to London with a split at York.

 

[alistairlees]

Yes and no. As a rule no, they don’t offer splits “off route” so to speak, but there are some puzzling alternatives, Leeds to London isn’t valid via York, (but York to London is valid via Leeds) but Trainline will offer Leeds to London with a split at York.

Yes it is.

 

[robbeech]

Yes it is.

Ok, I thought it was not valid that way around. I’ll rephrase it.

Leeds to London via York cannot be obtained on many journey planners, including LNER and (Trainline based) Northern. And many others (inc Trainline based XC) will show itineraries but won’t allow you to buy tickets, showing “sold out” when the individual legs are definitely not. It’s a consequence of a monumentally broken retail and reservation system that the railway has in place to save their costs with zero regard for passenger revenue (as they don’t care about that) and customer service.

However Trainline itself will offer the journey but will only do so by selling you a splitsave with a Leeds to York SDR and a York to London Terminals suitable return.

So why does every journey planner I’ve tried assume Leeds to London is NOT valid via York?

 

[Haywain]

The LNER app is happy to offer Leeds to Kings Cross via York with one ticket for journeys tomorrow, as is the website.

 

[robbeech]

The LNER app is happy to offer Leeds to Kings Cross via York with one ticket for journeys tomorrow, as is the website.

Obviously this is (my fault) very off topic so maybe should be split but I get no journeys (see attached).
I’m more than convinced (I have looked at the maps) that it’s valid, so my question could be turned on it’s head to ask why Trainline tries to charge folk for a York to London and a Leeds to York if a Leeds to London is via York.

 

[Wallsendmag]

LNER site is offering it to me too

 

[robbeech]

LNER site is offering it to me too

View attachment 110480

Problem solved then……..

It’s a “return thing”
This is just yet another result of “simplification” of fares as to why every retailer seems to offer different results and nobody really knows what to expect.

Trainline offer it that way because you can still get a return ticket from York I guess, so it generates more revenue.

Interestingly they don’t offer a combination of a half price Leeds London single and a single between somewhere like Crossgates and Leeds to take advantage of the lower price. Nor do they offer a New Pudsey to Leeds single and a Leeds to London half price single with an itinerary via York So they only offer these sorts of splits when they can generate MORE revenue for the railway.

Interesting.

 

[alistairlees]

Problem solved then……..

It’s a “return thing”
This is just yet another result of “simplification” of fares as to why every retailer seems to offer different results and nobody really knows what to expect.

Trainline offer it that way because you can still get a return ticket from York I guess, so it generates more revenue.

Interestingly they don’t offer a combination of a half price Leeds London single and a single between somewhere like Crossgates and Leeds to take advantage of the lower price. Nor do they offer a New Pudsey to Leeds single and a Leeds to London half price single with an itinerary via York So they only offer these sorts of splits when they can generate MORE revenue for the railway.

Interesting.

I don’t expect that’s the reason at all. It will be to do with the complexity of journey planning and fares and just an unintended consequence of that.

 

[robbeech]

I don’t expect that’s the reason at all. It will be to do with the complexity of journey planning and fares and just an unintended consequence of that.

I think we can confirm beyond all reasonable doubt that it IS a result of the fare simplification on the original example.

With the others, there’s no real way to tell but it’s difficult to look beyond the fact that it’s always conveniently in favour of the railway.

Trainsplit doesn’t have this issue, primarily because it finds better splits because it’s been done properly.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Leeds is one of the trial Single Leg Pricing locations so the return journey could be the problem.

 

[Haywain]

On both LNER app and website if an “open return” is requested, a message is displayed stating that open returns are not available so while results are not given in that case it is clearly explained.

 

[robbeech]

On both LNER app and website if an “open return” is requested, a message is displayed stating that open returns are not available so while results are not given in that case it is clearly explained.

My video above proves that this is not the case.

Leeds is one of the trial Single Leg Pricing locations so the return journey could be the problem.

Indeed this appears to be what is causing the problem here.

“Simplification” at its best, added to retailers like Trainline who are frankly just playing at it and using their popularity to get by making things more complicated for passengers who the industry is supposed to be encouraging back to the railway.

 

[Haywain]

My video above proves that this is not the case.

London Kings Cross as a destination works differently. The problem is that Leeds to London Terminals does have open return fares but they are routed EMR only and do an itinerary travelling via York won’t be found.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My video above proves that this is not the case.


Indeed this appears to be what is causing the problem here.

“Simplification” at its best, added to retailers like Trainline who are frankly just playing at it and using their popularity to get by making things more complicated for passengers who the industry is supposed to be encouraging back to the railway.

To be fair, the single-fare thing is a trial. If it's successful, it'll be rolled out across the railway and the platforms will need to adapt to it properly. If it's a failure, it'll go away. It is a bit awkward in the meantime, but it's not really possible to have trials without that.

 

[infobleep]

To be fair, the single-fare thing is a trial. If it's successful, it'll be rolled out across the railway and the platforms will need to adapt to it properly. If it's a failure, it'll go away. It is a bit awkward in the meantime, but it's not really possible to have trials without that.

How long is the trial due to last?

 

[Starmill]

How long is the trial due to last?

As long as the Department fancies, like most of these things. It's been a couple of years already.

 

[Watershed]

How long is the trial due to last?

Until Shapps decides it's politically convenient to declare it a success or failure.

 

[robbeech]

To be fair, the single-fare thing is a trial. If it's successful, it'll be rolled out across the railway and the platforms will need to adapt to it properly. If it's a failure, it'll go away. It is a bit awkward in the meantime, but it's not really possible to have trials without that.

Give over.
It’s been going for years now there’s surely no intention of getting rid. It’s made things simpler anyway ……….. if you ignore the threads on this forum that proves otherwise.

 

[Starmill]

I think it's been going since the first week of January 2020, so for two years and two months.

You have to wonder how many people have paid almost double the price for a single from London to Wakefield for example during that time.

It seems unlikely to me that a full rollout will take place, even if only period returns are cut in half. A single from London to Barnsley on route Chesterfield would drop to £42 for example. Is that really going to happen? Haywain made his own personal opposition to the London to Edinburgh rate being capped at the current Super Off Peak times very well known for example, and I imagine that's precisely the view in many commercial departments i.e. that there should be more flexibility to charge higher rates within the current Super Off Peak times because some of the trains running at those times can easily be filled at higher prices. At least with the current system of returns the customer has to pay the Super Off Peak rate both ways if they want to avail of it.

 

[gray1404]

I'm not sure how its possible per say to go off route using split tickets, provided both the ticket (or indeed all if more then two) are valid on the route or trains taken between the two stations printed on each ticket. It is possible to offer split tickets via a route that would not be valid on the through ticket, but at no point in these circumstances would one be going off route (unless there was an error in the planners).

I regularly travel between two stations splitting at a point in-between that one would not be permitted to travel via on a though ticket (as it is not a permitted route in the routing guide nor is there a through train service). However I simply buy two tickets each of which is valid and I allow enough interchange time at split point as it's also where I change trains. At no point am I going off route however as I'm using a valid combination and each ticket is in its own right is via a permitted route.