OJEU Notice for new trains (Arriva)

[themiller]

I came across this the other day whilst trawling the net looking for any hint of a spec for the new DRS locos. https://www.tendersdirect.co.uk/Sea...000006840119&sect=L003&cat=37&Page=Categories
Does anyone know if it refers to and additional order (in view of the date in the link)?

 

[Domh245]

I would think that they are all East Midlands related - EMUs for Corby, Bimodes for Intercity services, and self-powered for local services, indeed I think that the East Midlands franchise is the only one they're currently bidding for. I certainly can't find any reference to 'Northern' in the webpage you've linked.

 

[hexagon789]

I would think that they are all East Midlands related - EMUs for Corby, Bimodes for Intercity services, and self-powered for local services, indeed I think that the East Midlands franchise is the only one they're currently bidding for. I certainly can't find any reference to 'Northern' in the webpage you've linked.

The tender seems to be for Arriva though.

 

[Domh245]

Yes, but Arriva are bidding for the East Midlands franchise. We saw Stagecoach put out a tender whilst bidding for the South Western Franchise looking for bi-modal units with capability for working on 750V DC.

Also note the wording: "Arriva will run a private procurement for the supply and maintenance of new trains for the above Rail Franchise in the United Kingdom to be let by the Secretary of Statement for Transport."

That rules out Northern fairly categorically, seeing as that franchise has already been let.

 

[Mollman]

It does indeed look like East Midlands franchise however:
1) we haven't had the ITT yet, though it was due April
2) there is no clause in the advert regarding the possibility of not winning unless my procurement speak isn't up to scratch

 

[YorkshireBear]

Could it be for Cross Country too? Although the EMUs would be a bit of an interesting one... unless they were proposing some Manchester to Birmingham changes.

I agree it seems more like East Midlands though....

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, but Arriva are bidding for the East Midlands franchise. We saw Stagecoach put out a tender whilst bidding for the South Western Franchise looking for bi-modal units with capability for working on 750V DC.

Also note the wording: "Arriva will run a private procurement for the supply and maintenance of new trains for the above Rail Franchise in the United Kingdom to be let by the Secretary of Statement for Transport."

That rules out Northern fairly categorically, seeing as that franchise has already been let.

Forgot Arriva were bidding for the EM franchise. I think I just automatically associate Stagecoach with it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

EMUs for 2022 seems a bit late for Corby.
Maybe Arriva plans to use cascaded stock before then.
Presumably the 2022 date is for 125mph units when the existing OHLE has been upgraded for bi-modes, with existing 100mph units until then.
There are 2 other bidders of course (First/Trenitalia and Stagecoach).

 

[Domh245]

It does indeed look like East Midlands franchise however:
1) we haven't had the ITT yet, though it was due April
2) there is no clause in the advert regarding the possibility of not winning unless my procurement speak isn't up to scratch

1) The official public register copy of the ITT hasn't been released but that doesn't mean that a working draft hasn't been circulated to the bidders, indeed there had been rumours that first copies were going around amongst those who needed to know a while back.

2) That'll have probably been put into the invitation to negotiate or the "Additional information" section.

EMUs for 2022 seems a bit late for Corby.
Maybe Arriva plans to use cascaded stock before then.
Presumably the 2022 date is for 125mph units when the existing OHLE has been upgraded for bi-modes, with existing 100mph units until then.
There are 2 other bidders of course (First/Trenitalia and Stagecoach).

It is an odd one that. Also, the other 2 bidders are now Abellio and Stagecoach - First/Trenitalia pulled out recently.

 

[themiller]

Looking at the abstract, it looks like a 'cut & paste job' because it says "the above franchise" without saying which so it could be copying from the tender for the existing Northern franchise train procurement. But this is all speculation without further info. It does, however, give lie to the DfT's assertion that all train procurement is a matter for the franchisee!

 

[3141]

It does, however, give lie to the DfT's assertion that all train procurement is a matter for the franchisee!

I don't follow that. The DfT may specify that certain types of new trains should be obtained to run the franchise, but would be leaving their procurement to the franchisee. By means of this notice Arriva are (apparently) taking steps to be in a position to procure new trains if they become the franchisee.

 

[themiller]

Advertising in the OJEC is only required for procurement for government contracts not for private contracts. If Arriva were procuring on their own behalf, they would not need to advertise in this way.

 

[Domh245]

Advertising in the OJEC is only required for procurement for government contracts not for private contracts. If Arriva were procuring on their own behalf, they would not need to advertise in this way.

It may only be required for government contracts, but that doesn't necessarily preclude private contracts going through that route if they feel that it is the best way to tender, does it?

 

[themiller]

Quite bureaucratic though when they know who the anticipated suppliers will be - they indicate 'Envisaged number of candidates: 8'. If they know this then they'll probably know who they are and could be approached directly thus shortening the timescale. They will also want to get a ROSCO involved so could go through them and get a decent discount.

 

[Mollman]

Didn't Stagecoach go through OJEC for their proposed new South Western franchise trains?

 

[3141]

Advertising in the OJEC is only required for procurement for government contracts not for private contracts. If Arriva were procuring on their own behalf, they would not need to advertise in this way.

The Contract Notice states "This notice is for advertisement purposes only. Arriva will run a private procurement for the supply and maintenance of new trains for the above Rail Franchise in the United Kingdom to be let by the Secretary of Statement for Transport". There isn't anything saying that Arriva are doing it on behalf of the DfT.

It's possible that the DfT wants to get the procurement of new stock under way well before the franchise is let, and are using Arriva as their agent, but is there evidence that the DfT are behind this, other than the fact that Arriva don't need to do it this way?

 

[DarloRich]

There is nothing stopping a private company using the OJEU process - it is a good way to tempt the market

 

[swt_passenger]

Didn't Stagecoach go through OJEC for their proposed new South Western franchise trains?

A few years back Stagecoach issued an OJEU prior information notice that covered a number of different franchises, not just SW, all in the one document. I think were had a thread about it at the time, similar to this one:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...stock-for-franchise-bids.124247/#post-2391793

As can be seen in post #1 on there, it was very wide ranging, and most of it has never been ordered:

Lot 1 — South Western Franchise
Lot 2 — Intercity West Coast Franchise.
Lot 3 — West Midlands Franchise.
Lot 4 — East Midlands Franchise.
Lot 5 — South Eastern Franchise.