OLD Routemaster buses in London

[STEVIEBOY1]

I read this week, that one of the 2 remaining routes that use the old routemaster buses in London, the number 9, may stop running those buses which just leave a few on part of route 15.

Shame, but the 9 now has the new Boris routemasters so maybe a conflict of interest there?. Whenever I wanted to go on the route 9, I always waited for the routemaster, but it was often not very busy, but the 15 routemaster service always seemed to be well patronised.

Perhaps when the 9s come onto the 15s which is supposed to happen, they could extend the route westwards past Trafalgar Squaure, Picc Circus and up Regent Street to Oxford Circus or even to Baker Street/Edgware Road, so having that longer route all the way to the Tower via St Pauls and the city would be good for tourists?

 

[Robertj21a]

No, the Routemasters are (obviously !) not low floor so they can only run alongside low floor buses on the same route. No extensions of route possible. In any event, they'll also come off the 15 within a year or two.

Robert

 

[user15681]

I believe the heritage Routemasters will come off route 9 in July, with the 15 sometime this year too. That's what I've heard.

 

[bb21]

It is an expensive fleet to run, and the parts are presumably becoming rarer and more difficult to source.

Also it is Ken's pet project is it not?

 

[mbonwick]

Ensign bus will happily put you straight bb21!
Most (if not all) the RMs currently in use on the 9H/15H have been refurbished, and now sport modernish Cummins or Scania engines (the cummins ones are identical to those fitted to Dennis Darts)

So parts aren't hard to come by, and in maintainence terms they're a joy to deal with as they are so simple.
The only drawback RMs have is the need for crew working.

 

[bb21]

Ensign bus will happily put you straight bb21!

I certainly hope they do.

 

[CC 72100]

The only drawback RMs have is the need for crew working.

Just like Boris' new bus then! :roll:

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist, I just find it ridiculous that so many things are in the pipeline for getting rid of (guards on the GOBLIN, LUL ticket offices, now the routemasters) whilst on the other hand Boris is happy to show off his flagship vehicle, which has a lower capacity and is much more expensive to buy than a standard Decker, also requires crew working, and is of questionable build quality (well, it has been on here!).

Also, telling the foreign tourist that the Routemaster buses that they've probably read about and seen pictures of as a sign of London doesn't run anymore will be a bit of a disappointment to say the least.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

I do think there is tourist potential for a 'heritage' operation run for people to ride old Routemasters 'for their own sake' (probably a circular route will work best, though tourists could still use it to get to places), in much the same way as a heritage railway. Then the issue of acess for disabled people would not matter (like the heritage railways - their trains are often not accessible because they are old).

The existing heritage routes are not well known and it seems that they will stop - I mean, the newer buses do the job just as well for people who 'just wanting to get to their destination', so the old routemasters should become a pure heritage operation.

Alternatively, they could go the EOR where they can run alongisde their existing heritage buses (the latter aren't Routemasters are they?)

 

[Deerfold]

Just like Boris' new bus then! :roll:

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist, I just find it ridiculous that so many things are in the pipeline for getting rid of (guards on the GOBLIN, LUL ticket offices, now the routemasters) whilst on the other hand Boris is happy to show off his flagship vehicle, which has a lower capacity and is much more expensive to buy than a standard Decker, also requires crew working, and is of questionable build quality (well, it has been on here!).

Also, telling the foreign tourist that the Routemaster buses that they've probably read about and seen pictures of as a sign of London doesn't run anymore will be a bit of a disappointment to say the least.

The NB4L doesn't require crew working - they're commonly operated by just the driver. However they don't then have an open platform. This happens on all routes in the evenings and on some buses during the day.

 

[CC 72100]

The NB4L doesn't require crew working - they're commonly operated by just the driver. However they don't then have an open platform. This happens on all routes in the evenings and on some buses during the day.

Which makes it just like a normal bus but with a lower capacity and a more expensive price tag, presumably?

(Not getting at you by the way - I just am not a fan of Brainwash Boris' initiatives in this time of apparent need for savings!)

 

[Deerfold]

Which makes it just like a normal bus but with a lower capacity and a more expensive price tag, presumably?

(Not getting at you by the way - I just am not a fan of Brainwash Boris' initiatives in this time of apparent need for savings!)

That's about right. And with a driver who doesn't check tickets.

 

[Springs Branch]

Can anyone explain what role and tasks conductors perform these days on the Heritage Routemasters and on the NB4L (when they are crew operated)?

Given the dominance of Oyster and the way TfL discourages cash fares, do today’s conductors sell “tickets” to casual tourists who just hop on board the Heritage routes? Or carry out any ticket sales or inspection work when working on the Borismasters? How does a lone, isolated bus conductor enforce compliance among the yoofs and assorted “vulnerable individuals” who can now jump on and off the NB4L in less savoury parts of London?

My only personal experience was a few years ago on the 15H from Tower Hill to Trafalgar Square. The conductor spent the entire trip discussing then arguing with an American tourist (straight from Central Casting – huge camera, baseball cap, big gut & technicolor trousers) about the validity, or lack of it, of the ticket the guy was carrying. So I was unsure about what else he was supposed to be doing apart from giving ding-ding signals.

 

[Deerfold]

Can anyone explain what role and tasks conductors perform these days on the Heritage Routemasters and on the NB4L (when they are crew operated)?

Given the dominance of Oyster and the way TfL discourages cash fares, do today’s conductors sell “tickets” to casual tourists who just hop on board the Heritage routes? Or carry out any ticket sales or inspection work when working on the Borismasters? How does a lone, isolated bus conductor enforce compliance among the yoofs and assorted “vulnerable individuals” who can now jump on and off the NB4L in less savoury parts of London?

My only personal experience was a few years ago on the 15H from Tower Hill to Trafalgar Square. The conductor spent the entire trip discussing then arguing with an American tourist (straight from Central Casting – huge camera, baseball cap, big gut & technicolor trousers) about the validity, or lack of it, of the ticket the guy was carrying. So I was unsure about what else he was supposed to be doing apart from giving ding-ding signals.

On the Heritage buses they check passes and sell tickets and ding the bell.

On the new buses they're supposed to help stop people fall off the platform. No ticket duties (And nor has the driver).

 

[MK Tom]

Whenever I ride the heritage 15 it's always rammed with tourists.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Can anyone explain what role and tasks conductors perform these days on the Heritage Routemasters and on the NB4L (when they are crew operated)?

On the heritage routemasters, the conductors check tickets (using a handheld Oyster validator) and sell paper tickets, as well as supervising boarding and alighting at stops.

On the EgoBus they stand around at the back supervising boarding and alighting, but they do not sell or check tickets (other than to tell you off if you don't touch in with Oyster and/or get on the middle or back door with a paper ticket). The driver is responsible for checking tickets, just as on the 507 and 521.
As Deerfold says, not all journeys on the EgoBus need a crew member; they no longer have crew on the 38, and I have read that the 8 won't have crew at all either.

Is heritage route 9 going because TfL wants to get rid of it, or is it down to Tower Transit not wanting the hassle anymore?

 

[Robertj21a]

In practice, many conductors on the heritage 9 and 15 just sit on the cushions, as they often did in 'real' life, unless a tourist asks a question, they rarely venture upstairs.

On the Borismasters, they just block the entrance (there's nowhere else for them to stand) in order to avoid too many insurance claims from people injuring themselves. They have no revenue-related role.

Robert

 

[Clip]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...outemaster-9127455.html?origin=internalSearch

 

[bb21]

As Deerfold says, not all journeys on the EgoBus need a crew member; they no longer have crew on the 38, and I have read that the 8 won't have crew at all either.

... which makes the third door look ridiculous.

Is heritage route 9 going because TfL wants to get rid of it, or is it down to Tower Transit not wanting the hassle anymore?

Surely if the problem lies with Tower Transit, the correct course of action for TfL would be to retender rather than full withdrawal.

It is pretty clear that TfL have no intention of keeping them, regardless of what everyone else thinks.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I see from some of the above posts here, that the new Boris buses have less seats than some of the vehicles that they are replacing which surprised me.

Out of interest what is the seating capacity on the old and new RMs, the bendy buses which did not last long, and the regular modern London Double deckers.

 

[34D]

I see from some of the above posts here, that the new Boris buses have less seats than some of the vehicles that they are replacing which surprised me.

Out of interest what is the seating capacity on the old and new RMs, the bendy buses which did not last long, and the regular modern London Double deckers.

RM's 60 ish seats (dep on length and spec), new LT don't know, bendies 50ish seated plus 100 standing, and typical dual door decker 70ish. Others can improve I'm sure.

 

[Deerfold]

I see from some of the above posts here, that the new Boris buses have less seats than some of the vehicles that they are replacing which surprised me.

That'll be the two staircases - leaving just 22 seats downstairs.

 

[Dstock7080]

Traditional Routemasters:
RM 27.5' (8.4m) 2,123 built, 36up/28lower= 64. +5 standing
RML 29.11' (8.87m) 524 built, 40up/32lower= 72. +5 standing

NBfL/New Routemaster:
LT 11.23m (36.8') 150 running, 40up/22lower= 62. +18/22 standing

 

[BritishRail83]

On the Heritage buses they check passes and sell tickets and ding the bell.

On the new buses they're supposed to help stop people fall off the platform. No ticket duties (And nor has the driver).

The driver can issue cash tickets to people who do not have oyster etc, and people with paper tickets are meant to use the front door and show their ticket to the driver.

 

[Deerfold]

The driver can issue cash tickets to people who do not have oyster etc, and people with paper tickets are meant to use the front door and show their ticket to the driver.

Indeed, but if someone boards at another door there's noone with the responsibility to check the ticket.

 

[transmanche]

The driver can issue cash tickets to people who do not have oyster etc, and people with paper tickets are meant to use the front door and show their ticket to the driver.

Only those paying cash are directed to use the front door, those with paper tickets can board at any door (as they could on the bendybuses).

 

[Be3G]

Nope, passengers with paper tickets need to use the front door:

Passengers with a printed Travelcard or other printed pass or ticket must use the front door and show these to the driver.

Taken from here.

Confusing isn't it! That makes a total of five different boarding and payment ‘systems’ (for want of a better word) in operation on London's buses, excluding the heritage routes: normal routes, NBfL, and former-Red-Arrow, plus (until buses go cashless) pay-before-boarding variants of the first two.

 

[Deerfold]

Nope, passengers with paper tickets need to use the front door:

Though this is not enforced.

 

[user15681]

My season ticket is a paper Travelcard and I've only ever had one time when the person at the back told me I needed to get on at the front with my paper ticket. It isn't enforced, as you say, normally.

Quite frequently, not just on the NB4L, bus drivers won't even look at paper tickets they'll just say get on.

 

[bb21]

Telling paper ticket holders to board via the front door only partly defeats the objective of having three doors.

Some of TfL's rules seem to be drafted out of some people's arses.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

BB21 - I hereby propose that such rules be henceforth known as "The Izal Regulations".

Any seconders for this motion?