A few days ago I was at Barmouth station heading towards Tywyn when I idly looked at the track below me. Apart from the generally ropey condition of the sleepers, I also noticed that the chairs had BR(W) on them with what possibly could be a date (the numbers were two digit with the first being a "5"). The likelihood then is that the track was laid either in the 1950's or early '60s - so probably at least 50 years old. Which made me wonder: what is the oldest piece of permanent way that is still in regular use by passenger trains (so no sidings, freight only routes etc)?
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Oldest piece of permanent way
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Ploughman
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The date will only confirm the date of the chairs production.
It can give an inkling of the date of installation in the ground especially if there is a large amount of them together.
The rails should also have dates rolled into them but anything earlier than 1980 gets difficult to read but you need to be right down on the rail to find the marking in general, in fact if in a corrosive area even 2 year old rail can be difficult to read.
In general the oldest rail will be Bullhead. Flat Bottom only really came into general use in the 1950s. Although some was laid by the pregrouping companies such as the LNER in the 40s.
Wood sleepers will be on a continuous replacement anyway so should not get past 50 years or so.
The oldest date I have seen was in passenger lines at Hull Paragon and was from 1913 but it was leading up to the buffers in a platform road.
Elsewhere there was a lot of 1930 ish chairs on the York - Scarborough line.
Hull - Seamer had a high proportion of 1940 and 1941 due to being a wartime divert route and for military traffic for the various airfields and bases down the line.
It can give an inkling of the date of installation in the ground especially if there is a large amount of them together.
The rails should also have dates rolled into them but anything earlier than 1980 gets difficult to read but you need to be right down on the rail to find the marking in general, in fact if in a corrosive area even 2 year old rail can be difficult to read.
In general the oldest rail will be Bullhead. Flat Bottom only really came into general use in the 1950s. Although some was laid by the pregrouping companies such as the LNER in the 40s.
Wood sleepers will be on a continuous replacement anyway so should not get past 50 years or so.
The oldest date I have seen was in passenger lines at Hull Paragon and was from 1913 but it was leading up to the buffers in a platform road.
Elsewhere there was a lot of 1930 ish chairs on the York - Scarborough line.
Hull - Seamer had a high proportion of 1940 and 1941 due to being a wartime divert route and for military traffic for the various airfields and bases down the line.
Trog
Established Member
1950's is very common I have also noticed GWR rails still in use in two places on passenger lines, and there is still some LNWR conductor rail in the Euston - Watford DC lines.
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route:oxford
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It's probably going to be a section of track embedded into a level crossing on the IOW isn't it?
Quite alot of depots & sidings also still retain swathes of original track / chairs - Reading Depot is one, and i think there's a few 'heritage' chairs down in Eastleigh Works still.
Indeed several branch lines will still have very old track on - The reccently renewed Exmouth is one, and you'll probably find some on the (also now undergoing relaying) Barnstaple Branch.
Nym
Established Member
LU still has some original PWay on the District Line with 1800s stamps on the chairs...
Ploughman
Established Member
lewisf
Member
There are rail chairs at West Brompton tube with 1896 stamped on them.
bronzeonion
Member
The chairs leading up the buffer stops at Greenford I think are of GWR design as they only have 1 bolt on each side and the chairs are rounded.
I'll get a photograph of it next time I'm there if I remember!
I'll get a photograph of it next time I'm there if I remember!
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bishdunster
Member
West Somerset Railway, Dunster-Minehead, pressed steel sleepers with integral cast chairs, 1939 !
a good off
Member
The Skegness line was always a haven for pre grouping pway with lots of GNR rail and fittings. I'm not sure that this is still the case after the recent relaying work.
The Informer
Member
1862 is the oldest ive seen.
Trog
Established Member
Examples of rail brandings.
When the K&ESR entered preservation about 3/4s of the line was in 91 1/4lb bullhead rail that had been relaid from the Elham Valley line during the war.
This had wooden keys and the parts fishplates and bolts were impossible to obtain. As we relaid the line we used the standard 95ib rail and later flat bottom rails.
About 5 years ago we removed the last length of 91 1/4 rail and were very surprised to receive a very generous offer from one of the major track companies for what we have otherwise intended to send for scrap. it appears that they needed the spares for various depots around kent!
This had wooden keys and the parts fishplates and bolts were impossible to obtain. As we relaid the line we used the standard 95ib rail and later flat bottom rails.
About 5 years ago we removed the last length of 91 1/4 rail and were very surprised to receive a very generous offer from one of the major track companies for what we have otherwise intended to send for scrap. it appears that they needed the spares for various depots around kent!
The Colonel
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The unused platform at Chessington South has panels with 2 bolt fishplates and someone I know said it may well be the original track from the late 30's.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Examples of rail brandings.
Cargo Fleet - there is a name to conjure with!
some of the dates mentioned on here are barely even old! If it isnt pre 1900 it aint old
The Colonel
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How come the top photo hasn't got the chalk rubbing on it . . 
lincolnshire
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How come the top photo hasn't got the chalk rubbing on it . .
Have some chalk here if you want to volunteer to rub it on so we can all see it.
Might need some rubber gloves to stop your hands getting dirty with that dirty rail.
Trog
Established Member
How come the top photo hasn't got the chalk rubbing on it . .
I did not have any chalk on me.
The Colonel
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Gareth Marston
Established Member
Can't beat "in use" but 10 years ago or so a 158 managed to drop its cam shaft onto the release points at Aberystwyth station and wrecked them they dated from the GWR rebuild in 1926.
TheVicLine
Member
I was on a PWay course recently (LU) and the lecturer said that rail and junction work of 70 years was not that un-common on the network, I thought it was pretty unbelievable but after reading these posts I am amazed.
I think from memory that he said the Met Line around Farringdon was particularly old.
I think from memory that he said the Met Line around Farringdon was particularly old.
Manchester77
Established Member
There's listed track on the alydwich* branch iirc on the platform shut in 1917.
* can't spell so sorry if I spelt it wrong
* can't spell so sorry if I spelt it wrong
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