One passenger travelling on Two-Together discounted ticket

[kingston]

I have two Off-Peak returns discounted with a Two-Together railcard.

We've travelled the outbound, my friend has tested positive for COVID-19 and we are due to travel back today. He will isolate but I want to travel back on my own.

Would the railway allow me to travel back if I present both tickets on the train but with only one passenger travelling?

My assumption is yes as they've received the revenue and I'm happy for the tickets to be marked as used/torn/voided etc but I'm not sure if that's correct and if so how to go about it by being up-front to avoid any suspicion of anything dodgy going on.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately (and illogically) this is not allowed. You will need to buy a new ticket.

 

[kingston]

That's... unfortunate... He was happy to pay for a new ticket himself but for both of us is a unnecessarily punitive approach which is a real shame as we want to do the right thing, I guess as it's only a lateral flow test there's no legal requirement to isolate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's... unfortunate... He was happy to pay for a new ticket himself but for both of us is a unnecessarily punitive approach which is a real shame as we want to do the right thing, I guess as it's only a lateral flow test there's no legal requirement to isolate.

There is a legal requirement to isolate if testing positive on a LFD but unless you register it it is unenforceable, so rather down to your conscience.

 

[jfollows]

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/exceptions-for-two-together-railcard.222229/ for some more discussion if it's any help.

 

[Watershed]

There is a legal requirement to isolate if testing positive on a LFD but unless you register it it is unenforceable, so rather down to your conscience.

The requirement to self-isolate only comes into effect if you are notified by a "relevant person" (i.e. Test & Trace) that you have tested positive - see regulation 2A of the Self-Isolation Regulations.

It's not so much a question of it being unenforceable, as it simply not legally being the case.

Back to the OP's question - unfortunately strictly speaking, both passengers need to be present for the ticket to be valid. It is not sufficient to travel with the Railcard and both tickets. It would be a very unsympathetic member of staff who took issue to doing so, but you never know who you will come across...

It may be possible to get permission to travel with the Railcard and both tickets, or to excess away the Railcard discount, but there is no entitlement to either of these.

If neither of these can be obtained, OP would be well advised to obtain a refund or voucher on their ticket (which should be fee-free if they booked with a retailer participating in the Book with Confidence scheme) and to rebook without the Railcard discount.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The requirement to self-isolate only comes into effect if you are notified by a "relevant person" (i.e. Test & Trace) that you have tested positive - see regulation 2A of the Self-Isolation Regulations.

It's not so much a question of it being unenforceable, as it simply not legally being the case.

Though the OP and his friend would need to square that with their morals as to whether travelling by public transport while knowingly being infected is the right thing to do. I think the choice they are making is the right one, personally.

If neither of these can be obtained, OP would be well advised to obtain a refund or voucher on their ticket (which should be fee-free if they booked with a retailer participating in the Book with Confidence scheme) and to rebook without the Railcard discount.

It is likely any such refund would be pennies, as the outward has already been used and Off Peaks are typically only pennies different between single and return.

 

[Watershed]

Though the OP and his friend would need to square that with their morals as to whether travelling by public transport while knowingly being infected is the right thing to do. I think the choice they are making is the right one, personally.

...however, self-isolation is due to be scrapped at the end of the month. I think it's very much a decision that each person must make for themselves.

It is likely any such refund would be pennies, as the outward has already been used and Off Peaks are typically only pennies different between single and return.

Ah, I'd missed that detail. In that case a refund under the Book with Confidence scheme won't be available (ironically). But some ticket offices may still be willing to excess away the Railcard discount - and there is nothing to be lost by contacting the operator in question and asking for permission to travel with both tickets.

 

[Haywain]

Though the OP and his friend would need to square that with their morals as to whether travelling by public transport while knowingly being infected is the right thing to do. I think the choice they are making is the right one, personally.



It is likely any such refund would be pennies, as the outward has already been used and Off Peaks are typically only pennies different between single and return.

There can be a more significant difference where journeys on Avanti or Great Western are concerned.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There can be a more significant difference where journeys on Avanti or Great Western are concerned.

Good point. It may therefore still be worth investigating this.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

Some would say embark on the journey and see how far you get without being challenged.

In this thread, they reached a compromise (ie having to pay something but not the full amount).

Avanti - forced to excess fare

I was travelling from London to Liverpool yesterday on an off peak return with a two together railcard. Unfortunately the other half of my railcard caught Covid and so couldn't travel. This was no problem on the outward leg - I explained the situation to barrier staff at Euston, presented both...

www.railforums.co.uk

A bit of charm works wonders, as I witnessed on Hull Trains recently after someone got delayed on the tube and missed her LNER train, and the Hull Trains guard didn't charge her despite her ticket being a LNER Advance.

 

[westv]

Why not travel with a mannequin. Is there any requirement for the other passenger to be human?

 

[jfollows]

Why not travel with a mannequin. Is there any requirement for the other passenger to be human?

A bit difficult to make the mannequin look like the picture of the second named user of the railcard, though. (This railcard has pictures of both named users on it)

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Why not travel with a mannequin. Is there any requirement for the other passenger to be human?

There is a requirement for them to be the other person shown on the Two Together card.

A bit difficult to make the mannequin look like the picture of the second named user of the railcard, though. (This railcard has pictures of both named users on it)

There is a requirement for them to be the other person shown on the Two Together card.

I suppose it does raise the question of whether (say) a violinist could get a Two Together card issued for them and their violin so that they could keep an eye on it rather than stowing it in the luggage racks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose it does raise the question of whether (say) a violinist could get a Two Together card issued for them and their violin so that they could keep an eye on it rather than stowing it in the luggage racks.

Unlike planes, you can put luggage on seats on a train if they are not required for people to sit in. If it came down to only one seat being available, the instrument could be placed on it and the owner stand next to it.

 

[njr001]

Depending on your availability and if there is very little difference in cost between a single and return, could you purchase new off peak return to get you home then travel back once you friend has finished self isolating and then both return on your original tickets?

 

[yorkie]

I have two Off-Peak returns discounted with a Two-Together railcard.

We've travelled the outbound, my friend has tested positive for COVID-19 and we are due to travel back today. He will isolate but I want to travel back on my own.

Would the railway allow me to travel back if I present both tickets on the train but with only one passenger travelling?

My assumption is yes as they've received the revenue and I'm happy for the tickets to be marked as used/torn/voided etc but I'm not sure if that's correct and if so how to go about it by being up-front to avoid any suspicion of anything dodgy going on.

Thanks in advance.

Without knowing which operator you are using and whether it's multi-leg etc, I can't really say what I'd do in that situation.

But, for example, if it was a journey with just one train I'd probably have a word with on board staff (if applicable; preferably before boarding but this may not be an option) and ask them.

(and I'd certainly not be doing a Covid test but that's another story; isolation is very soon to be a thing of the past, so only relevant for a matter of days or weeks, in England at least)

 

[James H]

...however, self-isolation is due to be scrapped at the end of the month.

The legal requirement is ending. Self-isolation will remain strong medical advice as with other infectious diseases.

 

[kingston]

It's London to Exeter on a Super Off-Peak Return.

We'd resigned ourselves to buying a single for him at ~£50 to get back after his isolation and 'losing' the ~£35 for his return portion, but another ~£35 to excess my ticket for no logical reason is too high a cost so we're reluctantly going to have to travel home together.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Haywain]

'losing' the ~£35 for his return portion

A refund would be due for the unused return portion, which would be worth £17.00 after the admin fee.

£35 to excess my ticket for no logical reason

It's a pity you don't see protecting other people's health as logical.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's London to Exeter on a Super Off-Peak Return.

We'd resigned ourselves to buying a single for him at ~£50 to get back after his isolation and 'losing' the ~£35 for his return portion, but another ~£35 to excess my ticket for no logical reason is too high a cost so we're reluctantly going to have to travel home together.

Thanks for the advice!

I can understand that decision, though like many other aspects of COVID (such as the derisory level of Statutory Sick Pay) it is quite unfortunate that people who were going to make a sensible decision are pushed financially to make a less sensible one

Please if you're going to do this at least consider the infected person wearing a quality mask e.g. FFP2 or ideally FFP3, and if you're sitting next to them yourself you may want to do the same to avoid you getting infected, as on a journey of that length you almost certainly would. I'm no mask zealot generally, but if someone is definitely infected...

A refund would be due for the unused return portion, which would be worth £31.00 after the admin fee.

It does seem this is one of the few cases where the single is fortunately and sensibly very close to half the return.

This being the case, I would agree it would make sense to refund both the return portions via the retailer (less £10 admin fee per ticket) and purchase new singles, and thus not travel on a train when knowingly infected with a communicable disease.

 

[kingston]

A refund would be due for the unused return portion, which would be worth £17.00 after the admin fee.

You can refund one ticket of a pair bought with a Two-Together railcard? That I didn't know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can refund one ticket of a pair bought with a Two-Together railcard? That I didn't know.

Refund them both.

You might find there are Advances for suitable trains, and thus it might not end up costing you a lot more.

 

[Haywain]

Refund them both.

I agree with this.

 

[Watershed]

It's a pity you don't see protecting other people's health as logical.

It's a pity the railway insists on charging excessive administration fees. Otherwise people would find it much easier to do what you suggest as logical.

The requirement to self-isolate is ending soon. Everyone will be exposed to Covid multiple times in the coming years - it is just a question of chance as to when it happens. So I struggle to see that self-isolating now makes any real difference to other people's health over the medium to long term.

 

[pdq]

This really is counter-intuitive to most reasonable people. It's not like there's a loss of income or trying to cheat the system. If it was a F&F railcard, where buying an adult and child ticket with F&F is cheaper than the undiscounted adult alone, I could see the potential for trying it on. But there is absolutely no reason why a single person would choose to buy 2 x TT tickets rather than 1 undiscounted ticket. As long as both tickets and the railcard are present it proves there was an intent for two people to travel and the amount paid is four thirds of the undiscounted fare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This really is counter-intuitive to most reasonable people. It's not like there's a loss of income or trying to cheat the system. If it was a F&F railcard, where buying an adult and child ticket with F&F is cheaper than the undiscounted adult alone, I could see the potential for trying it on. But there is absolutely no reason why a single person would choose to buy 2 x TT tickets rather than 1 undiscounted ticket. As long as both tickets and the railcard are present it proves there was an intent for two people to travel and the amount paid is four thirds of the undiscounted fare.

It seems to be something they didn't think of, and as per the usual for the railway these days, when such cases came up they went for a strict interpretation.

 

[Haywain]

It's not like there's a loss of income or trying to cheat the system.

Really? Two people travel on the outward and only one on the return - that would be two undiscounted tickets, so there would be a saving to be made by allowing travel by only one person with the railcard and two return tickets.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What's the fairly similar situation with validity of Groupsave tickets if the group size falls below the minimum 3?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really? Two people travel on the outward and only one on the return - that would be two undiscounted tickets, so there would be a saving to be made by allowing travel by only one person with the railcard and two return tickets.

That's an answer that demonstrates knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing. It wouldn't have hurt to allow that for the relatively small number of people who would do it and avoid all this loss of goodwill.

The key is that unlike a Family Railcard you can't get an adult ticket for less than the normal rate.

What's the fairly similar situation with validity of Groupsave tickets if the group size falls below the minimum 3?

GroupSave groups are not meant to change in size (up or down) after the start of the journey so I suspect also not allowed.