"Oops! My Rail Pass Mishap: Using a Ticket without a Valid Rail Pass" Ticket then photographed.

[justsomeboy]

I unknowingly purchased a ticket with a rail pass. So I was on the train late at night. The train conductor asked me for my ticket, i displayed it to them, but it had a 16/17 saver pass rail card on the ticket. This was purely unintentional as Trainline doesn’t show that clearly when a rail pass is applied. Nevertheless, train conductor asked for my details which I refused to give, also asked for a picture of my non existent 16/17 rail pass which I refused, However, they did get a picture of my e-ticket on trainline. What can they do with this? Is the train company able to access my details via just a picture of my e-ticket? Bare in mind, I had no Train line account so hopefully that might protect me??

 

[antharro]

You didn't do yourself any favours there. Yes, if they have the e-ticket they can track it down to your account, and thus to you. You may not have a Trainline account, but your IP address will have been logged along with payment method, and that can easily be used to identify you.

 

[furlong]

In all that, did they at any point ask you to buy a new - correct - ticket?
How old are you? Between 16 and 17 and a half? Over 17 and a half?

 

[AlterEgo]

However, they did get a picture of my e-ticket on trainline. What can they do with this? Is the train company able to access my details via just a picture of my e-ticket? Bear in mind, I had no Train line account so hopefully that might protect me??

It depends if they bother to ask Trainline for the payment details of the person who bought the ticket, but if I was a betting man I think I’d be betting you won’t hear from them.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It depends if they bother to ask Trainline for the payment details of the person who bought the ticket, but if I was a betting man I think I’d be betting you won’t hear from them.

It’s also worth remembering that your ticket was checked by a human being, who will remember you- and who may have shared your details with their colleagues. So if the same unintentional problem happens again, the inspector may be firmer about taking your details.

So it’s really important to make sure you get the right ticket whenever you travel by train.

 

[jumble]

You didn't do yourself any favours there. Yes, if they have the e-ticket they can track it down to your account, and thus to you. You may not have a Trainline account, but your IP address will have been logged along with payment method, and that can easily be used to identify you.

I don't believe any rail company is going to be even trying to obtain peoples details from IP addresses
I don't imagine any ISP is going to share these details with a private company without an expensive court order even assuming that the IP address is not in the end of a VPN or at a work site or on a mobile data network where the public IP is shared between multiple users or in an internet café or in any Public WIFI such as as Spoons ect

 

[Hadders]

I unknowingly purchased a ticket with a rail pass. So I was on the train late at night. The train conductor asked me for my ticket, i displayed it to them, but it had a 16/17 saver pass rail card on the ticket. This was purely unintentional as Trainline doesn’t show that clearly when a rail pass is applied. Nevertheless, train conductor asked for my details which I refused to give, also asked for a picture of my non existent 16/17 rail pass which I refused, However, they did get a picture of my e-ticket on trainline. What can they do with this? Is the train company able to access my details via just a picture of my e-ticket? Bare in mind, I had no Train line account so hopefully that might protect me??

If the inspector scanned your ticket then the fraud department of the train company will be able to contact Trainline and request your account details and ticket purchasing history. Refusing to give details when asked by an authorised person is an offence in itself.

If you've got a history of purchasing discounted tickets that you're not entitled to then the train company will probably want to ask you about this.

If you get a letter from the train company then post a copy of the letter in this thread (with any personal details and case reference numbers covered up) and we will advise how to proceed.

 

[antharro]

I don't believe any rail company is going to be even trying to obtain peoples details from IP addresses
I don't imagine any ISP is going to share these details with a private company without an expensive court order even assuming that the IP address is not in the end of a VPN or at a work site or on a mobile data network where the public IP is shared between multiple users or in an internet café or in any Public WIFI such as as Spoons ect

The OP was hoping that not having a Trainline account might help protect them - i.e., keep them anonymous and impossible to find. It does not, and their IP address can be one way they could be tracked. While a train company wouldn't go to the effort for a single instance of fare evasion, the point still stands that it can be a method of tracking someone online, along with other trackers (especially if they used the Trainline website instead of the app). As for use of work VPNs, shared public IPs etc, depending on who it is they're connected to, that company may be required to keep records of IP address allocations for a period of time which would be tied to the user's device's MAC address. Again unlikely to be obtained but possible and part of the answer of why the OP is not anonymous. You can of course drill down into this further and argue the technicalities of it and how it might not be useful in given circumstances, but that's not relevant to this thread.

In my reply I also missed the point that presumably the Trainline asks for an email address or mobile phone number to send a receipt to (I don't use Trainline so I don't know for sure). If so then this would be another piece of information that could be used towards identifing the OP. And I would also bet that the app captures other information about the OP's device that could be used to identify them.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

In my reply I also missed the point that presumably the Trainline asks for an email address or mobile phone number to send a receipt to (I don't use Trainline so I don't know for sure). If so then this would be another piece of information that could be used towards identifing the OP. And I would also bet that the app captures other information about the OP's device that could be used to identify them.

Most obviously, anything bought online will have details of the bank card used to make payment, and it will be (at least in theory) possible to trace the purchaser through that when (as in this case) details of the purchase are held

So if the OP has made a habit of doing this in the past, it might well be that they will be getting a letter or email asking for further explanation and maybe payment of outstanding fares and/or a fine*.

But there's nothing any of us can do about the past. So my advice to the OP stands - in future be very, very careful not to make the same (or any) mistake in buying your train tickets. If it hasn't happened already, a future error could land you in expensive trouble. You may have been lucky this time - but don't push your luck!

*popular meaning.

 

[RPI]

If the railway has your ticket details then it's very easy to track you through that, if no account held then it can be traced through the payment method used, it's something that has become "bread and butter" to railway fraud departments.

 

[Danieldaniel]

If they have a picture of the ticket, then they as good as have your details.

Your e-ticket was sent to an email address, and your bank card/paypal etc was charged to pay for the tickets.
Trainline happily give this information away when requested by fraud departments (or they do when my TOC asks).

It all depends on if the guard could be bothered to report it and seeing as:
1) he took a picture
2) you didn’t show the railcard
3) refused to give your details

…I fully expect to see you posting again in a few weeks/months asking how you can settle out of court.

The thing I don’t understand, is when it comes to fare evasion, be it intentional or not, if you’re in the wrong, just pay what’s asked. 9/10 times, it’s going to be better for you in the long run.