I think you make a good point - I've previously said that I always open post sent to my home address regardless of the name of the person it's addressed to, but only I and - before me - my parents with the same surname have lived here since the house was built in around 1982, so I know that any other name is in error, deliberate or otherwise. When I lived elsewhere in places with previous residents I'd have been more likely to put unknown receipients' post back in the mail system as you say.
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Opening Post Addressed to Someone Else
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contrex
Member
I've been here at this address '4 Matabele Road' for 30 years. I got a letter addressed to 'Mr J Fox-Talbot 4 Matabele Road'. I'm not that bloke. I marked it 'RTS - NOT KNOWN' and put it back in the post. 2 weeks later, I was awoken by the postman at 7.30 to sign for another letter for him, sent Signed For. I refused it. Two more weeks later, one more letter, through the letter slot. This time I opened it. 'Dear Mr Fox-Talbot, despite two previous letters, blah blah blah, your motor insurance will expire on XX/XX/XXXX [one week later]'. I got the phone book out. Guess what? Mrs A Fox-Talbot 44 Matabele Road. Up I go. Knock knock. Nice woman. Hand over letter. 'Oh God! My bloody stupid ex-husband! Thank God you opened it!'.
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How do you have to pay for a stamp?
Royal Mail won’t return something that’s been opened. If they think it has they’ll either try to charge the person they’re returning it to, or send it back to you.
contrex
Member
When I worked in the mail room of a large organisation, we got lots of opened/sellotaped/marked RTS items. No charge to us.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Not sure why you'd care. It fundamentally isn't your problem. You have neither legal nor moral need to even return it, you can simply throw it in the bin if you want.
I don't give a monkeys if a TOC has to pay for a returned letter or if the RM just bins it (they won't send it back to the returner, if they do just bin it). It's simply not my problem.
Mcr Warrior
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That's not necessarily always the case. Royal Mail's National Returns Centre in Belfast often endeavour to return incorrectly addressed letters back to senders, even if there's no obvious return address on the outside of the envelope.
Maybe it depends on the centre and how closely they follow procedure. I’ve had it happen to letters I tried to RTS multiple times, and that’s what their complaints department told me was policy.
I tend to do this - My father and I have the same middle name and very similar first Initials. When I was still living at home it was drilled into me to be careful opening the correct post so that we didn't read each other's bank statements and so on. I spent a few weeks at one house in university where it felt like at least 3 times a week I was writing return to sender on it, after about 6 weeks they quickly dried up. I then later lived in a flat that was Number 'X', with a flat above being number 'X'A. My door faced onto the street and his was round a back alley. Fairly regular to get wrong letters and delivery people for him all the time. Those I would pop through his door. Anything addressed to my flat with a name I didn't recognise got returned to sender - although the NHS persisted in sending letters to the parent or guardian of somebody for the 4 years I lived there, despite regularly returning the letters. Very rarely would get letters for neighbours at other numbers (plenty of parcels though) - those got put through the appropriate door at some point that day when I had a spare moment.
It is slightly frustrating that so few companies appear to make any attempt to correct wrong addresses, especially when they hold telephone numbers or email addresses on file.
Of course you could have looked up that address without opening the letter at all.
contrex
Member
But I didn't. I've always been a bit of a rebel that way.
pitdiver
Member
For the last few months I have been receiving post which turned out to be overdue electricity bills addressed to someone who had passed away. I returned these to the sender as suggested but they still kept coming. I eventually opened one up and contacted the electricity company by phone to tell them to amend their records. This they did and addressed the bills to the Occupier at my address.
These I ignored as i knew what they were.
About a month ago a similar letter from a Debt Collection agency requesting payment of the bill. I contacted them by phone and told them of the situation. I am just hoping that is the last we see of these bills.
Oh by the way the electricity bill didn't even refer to my property but some where else. I had to give my electricity meter number to the DCA which they accepted wasn't the one referred to on the bill.
The electricity company was "Scottish Power"
These I ignored as i knew what they were.
About a month ago a similar letter from a Debt Collection agency requesting payment of the bill. I contacted them by phone and told them of the situation. I am just hoping that is the last we see of these bills.
Oh by the way the electricity bill didn't even refer to my property but some where else. I had to give my electricity meter number to the DCA which they accepted wasn't the one referred to on the bill.
The electricity company was "Scottish Power"
That really is bad. There needs to be some level of consumer protection about wrongly addressed post.
John Luxton
Established Member
When I bought my current home in 2007 I spent several years dealing with the previous owner's creditors.
As I was about to move in I contacted BT by phone to arrange for my number to be transferred as I wished to keep it and my new home was in the same exchange area. The BT operator asked me if I knew the current owners, was I related to them etc. All seemed a bit odd at the time, but they were probably already chasing debts to the address.
When I actually did move in I discovered prepayment meters in the meter cupboard which I thought was rather strange especially for an owner occupied house.
Within days a window envelope arrived the contents had slipped and I could see "Notice of Intended Action". I opened it and discovered it was from either BT / Sky or Virgin. Can't recall which now but I ended up having to deal with all three comms companies over the next few years and their debt collectors. Then there were the banks, utilities, credit cards and various other organisations.
The previous owners had not left a forwarding address or arranged for Royal Mail forwarding.
Thus all their mail was coming through.
All I had was their solicitor's address who had undertaken the conveyancing.
The only way to stop it was open all the mail and contact the various companies, quite often by phone as I wanted some instant feedback from a human and I gave the companies the solicitor's address as point of contact.
I was also a bit concerned should my address be black listed as a credit risk should I wish to obtain future credit. I don't tend to buy much on credit but I like a new car now and again.
The previous owners were a couple who when then moved in were not married only marrying later.
They had children and the wife started using a mix of her maiden and family name to obtain credit.
The eldest son was also getting to the age of being to obtain credit and was also also trying on the same name trick. After they moved out they were still using the address to obtain credit.
It took about 9 years to stop the debt related mail coming through.
The very last one was about 2016. It was a hand delivered bill pushed through the letter box for £6,000 from a plant hire business for the hire of a concrete crusher!
I subsequently found out from a near neighbour that the couple had separated and the woman had gone to live with a builder - she was using her maiden name again still using my house address to hire the crusher.
Since then nothing.
Personally I would open mail that comes through.
Anything with your address on is your business.
if I had just put all this correspondence back in the post box it could have continued longer, bailiffs could have turned up etc.
Plus I think companies and organisations need to be informed that something is going on.
As I was about to move in I contacted BT by phone to arrange for my number to be transferred as I wished to keep it and my new home was in the same exchange area. The BT operator asked me if I knew the current owners, was I related to them etc. All seemed a bit odd at the time, but they were probably already chasing debts to the address.
When I actually did move in I discovered prepayment meters in the meter cupboard which I thought was rather strange especially for an owner occupied house.
Within days a window envelope arrived the contents had slipped and I could see "Notice of Intended Action". I opened it and discovered it was from either BT / Sky or Virgin. Can't recall which now but I ended up having to deal with all three comms companies over the next few years and their debt collectors. Then there were the banks, utilities, credit cards and various other organisations.
The previous owners had not left a forwarding address or arranged for Royal Mail forwarding.
Thus all their mail was coming through.
All I had was their solicitor's address who had undertaken the conveyancing.
The only way to stop it was open all the mail and contact the various companies, quite often by phone as I wanted some instant feedback from a human and I gave the companies the solicitor's address as point of contact.
I was also a bit concerned should my address be black listed as a credit risk should I wish to obtain future credit. I don't tend to buy much on credit but I like a new car now and again.
The previous owners were a couple who when then moved in were not married only marrying later.
They had children and the wife started using a mix of her maiden and family name to obtain credit.
The eldest son was also getting to the age of being to obtain credit and was also also trying on the same name trick. After they moved out they were still using the address to obtain credit.
It took about 9 years to stop the debt related mail coming through.
The very last one was about 2016. It was a hand delivered bill pushed through the letter box for £6,000 from a plant hire business for the hire of a concrete crusher!
I subsequently found out from a near neighbour that the couple had separated and the woman had gone to live with a builder - she was using her maiden name again still using my house address to hire the crusher.
Since then nothing.
Personally I would open mail that comes through.
Anything with your address on is your business.
if I had just put all this correspondence back in the post box it could have continued longer, bailiffs could have turned up etc.
Plus I think companies and organisations need to be informed that something is going on.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There is. Just put RTS on it and put in a postbox or bin it. You have no legal or moral responsibility for it whatsoever.
In a previous house debt collectors did show up. I simply told them I was not the person named and that I would not be telling them my identity as it was none of their business. They went away. Had they tried to force entry (which they have no right to do even if you are the subject) the Police would have been called.
Court Bailiffs are different, but they will go away if you prove you are not the subject, that is show ID.
That "something is going on" is not my problem.
You not being responsible for it appears not to stop people being held responsible for it regardless. As you can see in the example I was responding to, the person received debt enforcement notices requiring their time and energy to resolve, as well as potentially causing distress. In the example in #43, @John Luxton received an unwanted nuisance for nearly a decade because of the deliberate misuse of personal details.
It's not as if organisations don't hold multiple methods of contact on basically everybody they register. I can't remember the last time somebody who asked for my postal address didn't also request a phone number and email (I've had requests for phone number or email only, but never postal address only).
This is what happened to me, I posted about this a while back.
When I opened the summons I contacted the court, they seemed to be quite happy for me to open the mail which was not in my name.
County court bailiffs did turn up, but this was all procedural just to make sure I wasn't telling pork pies and the court told them what I had said previously.
The only time you really mustn't open mail delivered to you is if you can see it has been incorrectly delivered. For example if you live at number 4 and you receive a letter correctly made out to number 44.
On the rare occasions these show up, I'm usually able to walk to the correct address and just put it through their letterbox.
Otherwise I don't see how just opening the letter alone could be argued to be unlawful.
On the rare occasions these show up, I'm usually able to walk to the correct address and just put it through their letterbox.
Otherwise I don't see how just opening the letter alone could be argued to be unlawful.
And if anyone were really bothered by this, they would usually have the option to open a window rather than a door to speak to the bailiffs, to clarify why you're not going to let them in.
Some recent mail I received had been poorly folded or printed. Indirectly, it meant that the top line was not visible in the plastic envelope window.
As it turned out, it wasn't for our address either (despite the address on the letter being mine)
So, not only was the name obscured until opening, the mail had nothing to do us.
I called the company that had sent the mail - they didn't want to discuss as I wasn't know to them (despite a clear explanation of their error)
Unbelievably, the mail was from a solicitors regarding land purchase. I finally fixed the issue by mailing the partner concerned who was mortified the the issue had happened and also that my attempts to fix the issue had met with resistance.
I think the world has gone slightly mad.
As it turned out, it wasn't for our address either (despite the address on the letter being mine)
So, not only was the name obscured until opening, the mail had nothing to do us.
I called the company that had sent the mail - they didn't want to discuss as I wasn't know to them (despite a clear explanation of their error)
Unbelievably, the mail was from a solicitors regarding land purchase. I finally fixed the issue by mailing the partner concerned who was mortified the the issue had happened and also that my attempts to fix the issue had met with resistance.
I think the world has gone slightly mad.
75A
Established Member
I check the name and address are both correct, if they are I open it.
My house is number 1, if it says 1A i'll take it round my neighbours, anything else gets torn in half and put in the bin, simples.
My house is number 1, if it says 1A i'll take it round my neighbours, anything else gets torn in half and put in the bin, simples.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The only thing to be aware of with bailiffs is that you can just tell debt collectors to go away even if you do owe the debt - they have no right of entry - whereas you do have to engage properly with Court bailiffs and e.g. prove you aren't the person who owes the money. Their ID should identify which they are easily enough. Though I seem to recall even the latter don't have a right of entry unless accompanied by a Police officer with a warrant - but not engaging with Court bailiffs when they arrive without a warrant is just a way to get them to come back with one.
The various TV programmes about Court bailiffs are quite educational - one thing of note is that if someone with debts does live with you (actually lives there, not mis-addressed post), then you would do well to keep proof of ownership of your expensive stuff you have in shared areas of the house as otherwise they can assume the debtor owns or part-owns it.
I previously worked for a finance company. Under financial regulations, certain arrears notifications had to be sent to the last known address.
We had a trace team who’d search for the person, but until that traced address was fully verified as the correct John smith we still had to use last confirmed address. We got hundreds of return to sender post each day.
This is a fairly standard review scam activity - done to promote the review score of items on websites and boost the credibility of fake reviewers. Set up a customer account, order an item to a random address, then place a review of the item on the website, then use your other accounts to vote the review as helpful. Do this enough times and your account ends up as a trusted reviewer, or the item you're trying to push gets recommended as a popular item - the latter is extremely helpful on Amazon as many people just pick the "Amazon Recommends" item and can boost sales immensely.
Class800
Established Member
Could be there be any risk of being interpreted as contempt of court/obstructing justice if you don't help the Court Bailiffs to the best of your ability?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You're not in a position to help them other than to prove you're not the person they're after. You don't know who the person is, after all. How else would you help them?
They aren't going to take your stuff if you provably aren't the person they are after.
(By contrast NEVER help debt collectors, ever, just tell them you aren't the person and to get lost - they are often disreputable so you don't want your details on their records. Court Bailiffs will be able to show ID proving they are, debt collectors won't)
Court bailiffs won't accept that for an answer and will want to see proof that the person doesn't live there, and/or to search the house. Bear in mind folks who owe money are often trying to come up with ways to dodge the responsibility.
Haywain
Veteran Member
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Whilst they might have the power to search the house, they are unlikely to go that far unless they have a strong suspicion that you are lying to them. And perhaps you could explain how one could prove that a person does not live at the property? If bailiffs appeared at my door asking for Joe Bloggs I can easily prove that I am not him but it is impossible to prove he doesn't live here.
I often wonder that myself when watching the bailiff shows on TV
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They don't have the right to search a house unless they come back with a warrant (and refusing this absolutely is not contempt of Court). I'd certainly not be letting them in unless they did.
You can't prove someone doesn't live somewhere (that's like people who ask you to prove something isn't illegal), though they would probably have the sense to check the electoral register and the likes before even showing up. It is however prudent to prove you aren't them.
But ONLY for Court bailiffs. You have no compunction to cooperate in any way with private debt collectors, and doing so can't be to your benefit, so don't. Just say you're not X and close the door. If they try to enter, they are trespassing and you can use reasonable force to make them leave if you so wish, though I'd personally just call 999 as if they tried to push past me to enter the house it'd be forced entry which is aggravated trespass and thus would render them liable to prosecution, as would taking items that didn't belong to the subject as that would be theft.
I often wonder that myself when watching the bailiff shows on TV
I don't think they've ever gone to a house on one of those that wasn't the right one. They do seem to do their research.
What they do sometimes ask for is proof of who owns a given item, though. One reason keeping a box of receipts is prudent.
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You can obviate this, if you really want to, by not opening the door at all until you've confirmed who is actually calling. Most people have a ground floor window, intercom system, or in extremis, a letterbox.
They probably just don't show things on those TV shows that make them look daft.
Of course, avoiding anybody turning up at all is preferable.
This requires you either habitually checking the front door before opening all the time, or being aware that it's not somebody you should open the door to before you get there.
*They've never shown them going to a wrong house. They follow these people about for 8-12 hours a day for however long to produce 10x 1-hour shows. There's plenty they won't show you, in addition to the manager choosing quite carefully which staff get the film crew and the filmed staff being extra mindful of the large gaggle of technical crew following them around.
I've seen quite a few of those where there's been disputes about whether an item is Company X's or Mr X's, or indeed whether items are shared/in a partner's name/on lease rather than owned outright by the specific individual subject to the court order.
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