Overcharged by Avanti?

[Essexman]

I think I have been overcharged by Avanti.

I purchased off peak returns through Avanti website for my son and family from Stourbridge Junction to Euston, outward today, returning tomorrow, using a Family Railcard.

Looking at the tickets I’ve just noticed that they only gave a railcard discount on one adult fare.

The booking email says -

Family & Friends Railcard £ 68.20 £45.00 Adult
No railcard £68.20 Adult
No railcard £ 68.20 £34.10 Child
No railcard £ 68.20 £34.10 Child

They charged a total of £181.40.

I believe I should have been charged £115.90.

Am I correct and if so how can I claim back the difference?

 

[CarrotPie]

Looking at the tickets I’ve just noticed that they only gave a railcard discount on one adult fare.

And the F&F railcard says 60% off child fares too, which the email doesn't seem to suggest happened.

 

[gray1404]

Both adults should be 34% off and both children should be 60% off child fare. You contact the retailer for the refund.

 

[Adam Williams]

When you added the railcard, did you set it to apply to both adults and both children?

 

[urbophile]

When you added the railcard, did you set it to apply to both adults and both children?

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View attachment 148639

That's thrown me before when booking for two railcard holders. But the F & F discount only works if all people are travelling together surely? So it should default to that.

 

[Essexman]

Thanks. I think I just entered that there is one Family Railcard and didn't notice that they ask you to add the people to whom it applies.
I've never seen that before. I rarely buy tickets on Avanti's website because I find it hard to use - it only seems to want to sell single tickets unless you poke about looking for returns.
Surely as I was buying four tickets with a railcard it should be obvious that I want the discount to apply to them all.
I will send an email to claim a refund - but to complicate matters I've already submitted a claim for delay repay based on the tickets purchased, so I'll have to tell them this. It was after after making the claim that I realised I'd been overcharged.

 

[Adam Williams]

But the F & F discount only works if all people are travelling together surely? So it should default to that.

It's not how I would've designed it to work. But it's entirely valid to use a multi-person railcard on fewer passengers than you want, provided you meet the minimums (so for FAM, you need 1 adult and 1 paying child), it's just a daft default.

 

[Essexman]

It's not how I would've designed it to work. But it's entirely valid to use a multi-person railcard on fewer passengers than you want, provided you meet the minimums (so for FAM, you need 1 adult and 1 paying child), it's just a daft default.

But why would one not want to discount all the eligible tickets?
There should be no need to input the number of passengers twice.
I wonder if this is Avanti trying to catch people out or their website system designer making it unnecessarily complicated?

 

[PaulJ]

But why would one not want to discount all the eligible tickets?
There should be no need to input the number of passengers twice.
I wonder if this is Avanti trying to catch people out or their website system designer making it unnecessarily complicated?

It could be possible that not everyone is returning on the same journey. Let's suggest one of the adults was returning on their own the day before the others. In that case, the discount would not apply.

 

[JonathanH]

But it's entirely valid to use a multi-person railcard on fewer passengers than you want, provided you meet the minimums (so for FAM, you need 1 adult and 1 paying child), it's just a daft default.

Yes, but this didn't appear to meet the minimums as both child tickets were at full child rate. Is the discounted adult ticket technically invalid if neither child ticket was discounted?

 

[Adam Williams]

Yes, but this didn't appear to meet the minimums as both child tickets were at full child rate. Is the discounted adult ticket technically invalid if neither child ticket was discounted?

Hmm, that's an interesting question. The railcard Ts and Cs don't explicitly state the child has to be used as part of the discount group, merely that they must be travelling with the other adult(s), though I don't think I'd have implemented this in a way that allowed not using the discount on at least one child. The NRE page explicitly states the minimum number of children is 1:

 

[gray1404]

It's a fault with their website as it would not normally discount just one adult, at least one adult and one child.

For the delay repay claim what amount of compensation are you expecting? Is it 100% of the value of the tickets.

I personally would not complicate things mentioning the delay repay claim. I'd keep that separate. At the end of the day the retailer need to refund any overcharging and the TOC needs to sort delay repay compensation based on the tickets travelled on.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Hmm, that's an interesting question. The railcard Ts and Cs don't explicitly state the child has to be used as part of the discount group, merely that they must be travelling with the other adult(s), though I don't think I'd have implemented this in a way that allowed not using the discount on at least one child. The NRE page explicitly states the minimum number of children is 1:

View attachment 148644

Gets worse if you look at the data in the fares feed:

Minimum Group Size is 1, maximum of 8
But both Adults and Children also have a minimum of zero! (Given it's possible to buy a discounted Child ticket without an accompanying Adult one when the cardholder is only travelling with Children in one direction.)

 

[Essexman]

It's a fault with their website as it would not normally discount just one adult, at least one adult and one child.

For the delay repay claim what amount of compensation are you expecting? Is it 100% of the value of the tickets.

I personally would not complicate things mentioning the delay repay claim. I'd keep that separate. At the end of the day the retailer need to refund any overcharging and the TOC needs to sort delay repay compensation based on the tickets travelled on.

32 minute delay for 25 percent of total ticket price paid.

 

[alistairlees]

Gets worse if you look at the data in the fares feed:

Minimum Group Size is 1, maximum of 8
But both Adults and Children also have a minimum of zero! (Given it's possible to buy a discounted Child ticket without an accompanying Adult one when the cardholder is only travelling with Children in one direction.)

That's to enable children (or adults) to be added on to an already-existing booking, in a ticket office. And also to enable children to be given the discount when there is no adult ticket, as they are using a season ticket. There are probably more edge cases. I expect you know these examples anyway...