Overhanging tree rips roof off bus in Holborn

[theageofthetra]

Thoughts with the passengers and the driver. You can clearly see the mark on the tree where the front left corner hit it. Sorry have no other source than twitter.

Check out @NewsOnTheMin's Tweet: https://twitter.com/NewsOnTheMin/status/562241326025281536?s=09

 

[Antman]

Fortunately only minor injuries reported

 

[table38]

More pictures here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2936448/Four-people-injured-London-double-decker-bus-gets-roof-ripped-TREE.html

 

[jon0844]

Some tour bus company will be bidding for that now!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The street sign gives a clue, not?

 

[brianthegiant]

More pictures here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2936448/Four-people-injured-London-double-decker-bus-gets-roof-ripped-TREE.html

" Police, the fire brigade and TfL are looking into what caused the crash " lol

 

[jon0844]

Are the trees protected? I ask because I wonder why there is a sign warning of overhanging trees, instead of trimming them back or removing them and replanting new ones?

I'm surprised this hasn't happened before, as I don't use buses that much in London now - but when I do, there's a fairly good chance the driver will do something wrong and potentially dangerous.

 

[Antman]

Are the trees protected? I ask because I wonder why there is a sign warning of overhanging trees, instead of trimming them back or removing them and replanting new ones?

I'm surprised this hasn't happened before, as I don't use buses that much in London now - but when I do, there's a fairly good chance the driver will do something wrong and potentially dangerous.

Really? I use buses in London regularly and I can't remember the last time I saw a driver doing anything potentially dangerous.

 

[jon0844]

You're lucky then. On the routes I do (more central London), buses give very little clearance to cyclists and accelerate or just carry on through red lights at junctions (not so much at pedestrian crossings though, luckily).

Given buses have cameras, I'm surprised drivers go through lights - but it seems to be accepted in London for cars, buses, vans, lorries and obviously the majority of cyclists.

 

[Robertj21a]

You're lucky then. On the routes I do (more central London), buses give very little clearance to cyclists and accelerate or just carry on through red lights at junctions (not so much at pedestrian crossings though, luckily).

Given buses have cameras, I'm surprised drivers go through lights - but it seems to be accepted in London for cars, buses, vans, lorries and obviously the majority of cyclists.

Yes, that's why it's not really surprising to 'regulars' - everybody does it in London (particularly cyclists). Clearly it's wrong, but then who enforces very many road laws nowadays anyway ?

 

[jon0844]

With less police on the road (or expected to perform 'normal' police duties, so not always interested in dealing with traffic offences), it's pretty much down to cameras to police junctions. I guess they can be effective for red light offences for some vehicles, and we know they love raking in the cash for blocking box junctions.

I guess people don't worry too much about being caught for jumping red lights, especially if they assume there's a factored in delay before the lights change in another direction (often there is, but not always).

Cyclists meanwhile see red as a give way or go throughout the red phase. Imagine if we ever saw motorists doing that. Perhaps you'll see some creeping over the stop line if the lights are red for some time, but never just deciding to go when the junction is clear.

I was surprised that buses would take the risk as they have cameras. Many commercial vans and lorries appear to be getting fitted with cameras now (I noticed recently that all Ocado vans have them), presumably to protect the company against claims - but, again, surely that would make drivers take more care?

I've got a dash cam now and it does make you conscious of the fact that footage could be used against you!

 

[Zoidberg]

...

footage could be used against you!

...if you are not quick enough to securely delete it.

(a more practical alternative would be to quickly substitute a blank memory card)

 

[jon0844]

I fitted the camera, so I can remove the footage or even format the card. But that could be less easy if I was in a mangled wreck after driving like a loon.

 

[Groningen]

When you look at the junction of Sardinia Street and Kingsway you see there is totally no branch (of a tree) hanging over the road. I believe that the (bus)driver went too much to the left and hit the leaning tree. Also treenumber 4 and 7 are leaning too much to the road. If i look much more; all trees are leaning to the road. Also on the other side of the road! I say drivererror!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I guess people don't worry too much about being caught for jumping red lights, especially if they assume there's a factored in delay before the lights change in another direction (often there is, but not always).

That's the inter-red phase, that being the time that pedestrians (i.e. me) get to cross the road!

Our local traffic light supremo has been slowly cutting the inter-red phase so, having waited for the amber gamblers to pass, and pre-judging the go before greeners, many times I am still crossing a junction when the traffic comes at me.

When did the highway code become optional?

As to this incident, there is a further 'low height' sign further down the road. Depends why the bus driver found it necessary to be in the nearside lane I suppose. There may have been a good reason e.g. obstruction in offside lane.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

a still photo cannot give the full story of what happened to a moving vehicle. More likely than not the reason why the bus ended up in the nearside lane was that the driver had to avoid some idiot motorist, pedestrian or cyclist doing something stupid. NOTE the bus didn't have it's roof ripped off on the first tree on the road... suggesting that the driver had to swerve for some reason.

As to buses jumping red lights.. quite often lights are phased to change at a pace that allows a car to stop safely in the distance travelled in the time taken for the lights to change... however that is a much shorter distance than a bus takes. Quite often the driver is faced with the option of effecting an emergency stop or accelerating through the lights in the hope that he can clear the junction before the camera trips and catches him for red light jumping!.... I wonder how many passengers would be amused if every time the driver was confronted with that choice chose to stamp on the brake pedal?

 

[talltim]

Remember, a green light always means that the next aspect is amber, you should be driving is such a way that if it does change when you are close to it, you shouldn't have to go through on red

 

[Busaholic]

'Bus hits tree' - normally when you see that headline it means a bus has somehow left the road and driven into a tree : the only occasion when the tree has moved into the road, outside of re-runs of 'Dad's Army', is when it, or branches of it, have been brought down by metrological conditions or bad luck. On this occasion the bus remained on the carriageway and the tree remained upright (if they're the trees I believe them to be they survived the 1987 hurricane, which was more than the roof of my house did.) I'm not going to speculate on how the accident happened but I do think it's right to query how the roof could be sliced off in such a potentially disastrous fashion: if a car had been right behind fatalities would have been probable. Is there anyone on here who knows how the roof on this model of bus is affixed, or can anyone say why it should have come off in one piece like it did? It's not as though it's a convertible bus is it? No jokes please.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Remember, a green light always means that the next aspect is amber, you should be driving is such a way that if it does change when you are close to it, you shouldn't have to go through on red

The highway code also requires you to keep up with the flow of traffic... if the traffic is flowing at 30mph then that should be your speed (remember you can fail your test for 'failing to make due headway') as I stated before it is a split second decision the driver has to make "do I have time to stop safely" I've yet to meet anyone that has perfect judgement of distance... sometimes the drivers do get it wrong... and of course remember the likely outcome of doing an emergency stop at the lights in London is a pile up behind you!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

'Bus hits tree' - normally when you see that headline it means a bus has somehow left the road and driven into a tree : the only occasion when the tree has moved into the road, outside of re-runs of 'Dad's Army', is when it, or branches of it, have been brought down by metrological conditions or bad luck. On this occasion the bus remained on the carriageway and the tree remained upright (if they're the trees I believe them to be they survived the 1987 hurricane, which was more than the roof of my house did.) I'm not going to speculate on how the accident happened but I do think it's right to query how the roof could be sliced off in such a potentially disastrous fashion: if a car had been right behind fatalities would have been probable. Is there anyone on here who knows how the roof on this model of bus is affixed, or can anyone say why it should have come off in one piece like it did? It's not as though it's a convertible bus is it? No jokes please.

I can't say how the roof of this model is attached... however it's not the first time since low floor deckers became common that this has happened.. it does seem a modern phenomenom... Certainly in years gone by if a decker hit an immovable object such as a tree then normally the front dome just caved in.. I suspect it is something to do with a lot more of the stresses of the construction are now contained in the roof structure to make up for lack of stiffness in the chassis/ body structure.

 

[jon0844]

I wonder how many passengers would be amused if every time the driver was confronted with that choice chose to stamp on the brake pedal?

I used to use the 63 from King's Cross to Farringdon regularly and many of the drivers used to make me think the buses only had two modes - full power & emergency stop.

I wondered if the buses even had a pedal, or just a toggle switch on the dashboard.

As said above, you should be cautious that any green lights could change - but I appreciate that London bus drivers are perhaps under pressure to keep to time, so might be 'encouraged' to go for it. Until something bad happens, it's obviously not a problem.

Or maybe drivers are pulled up for it, and let go, without Joe Public being aware. I am sure there are plenty of other people to take their place.

 

[Robertj21a]

The highway code also requires you to keep up with the flow of traffic... if the traffic is flowing at 30mph then that should be your speed (remember you can fail your test for 'failing to make due headway') as I stated before it is a split second decision the driver has to make "do I have time to stop safely" I've yet to meet anyone that has perfect judgement of distance... sometimes the drivers do get it wrong... and of course remember the likely outcome of doing an emergency stop at the lights in London is a pile up behind you!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I can't say how the roof of this model is attached... however it's not the first time since low floor deckers became common that this has happened.. it does seem a modern phenomenom... Certainly in years gone by if a decker hit an immovable object such as a tree then normally the front dome just caved in.. I suspect it is something to do with a lot more of the stresses of the construction are now contained in the roof structure to make up for lack of stiffness in the chassis/ body structure.

Most modern bus roofs are less robust nowadays. Overall weight is such a concern (affecting seating capacity, fuel consumption etc) that the roof contains much more fibreglass and light metals than previously.

 

[Carlisle]

I know of bus drivers who have been dismissed for a multitude of things like, attempted phone use , tampering with the on board cameras , drinking coffee at the wheel, running early , accidents and minor collisions , customer complaints etc etc , judging purely by the photograph on this thread it dosent look too promising for the driver involved in this incident

 

[Busaholic]

Most modern bus roofs are less robust nowadays. Overall weight is such a concern (affecting seating capacity, fuel consumption etc) that the roof contains much more fibreglass and light metals than previously.

I thought that was the case, otherwise how would painting the roof white outside impact on the heat inside the bus, or am I barking up the wrong tree? A telling comment from a passenger on the upper deck (unharmed, fortunately) : 'if anyone had been standing on the upper deck at the time they would have bought it'. I think serious questions are going to have to be addressed here.

 

[jon0844]

All the more reason not to stand upstairs!

 

[Robertj21a]

All the more reason not to stand upstairs!

Despite the vast number who stand upstairs on the London night buses.

 

[jon0844]

Ultimately, it's up to them. The driver isn't likely to stop and refuse to continue unless they sit down or get off.

Of course, when the day comes that something happens and one or two people standing lose their heads, we might see some clarification of the rules and how they are enforced.

 

[Busaholic]

All the more reason not to stand upstairs!

I think he was making the point that in London with frequent stops there are often people making their way to and from upstairs seats. That 91 bus would have only just left the Kingsway stop (for Holborn tube) but luckily it wasn't rush hour and, unlike all other bus routes down Kingsway, it wasn't going to Waterloo but only Strand and it was therefore unlikely that anyone was making their way upstairs (local knowledge helps sometimes!)

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, point taken.

 

[Deerfold]

Despite the vast number who stand upstairs on the London night buses.

Really? On any particular route? Can't I've seen this (with any regularity - not never ever).

 

[RJ]

As to buses jumping red lights.. quite often lights are phased to change at a pace that allows a car to stop safely in the distance travelled in the time taken for the lights to change... however that is a much shorter distance than a bus takes. Quite often the driver is faced with the option of effecting an emergency stop or accelerating through the lights in the hope that he can clear the junction before the camera trips and catches him for red light jumping!.... I wonder how many passengers would be amused if every time the driver was confronted with that choice chose to stamp on the brake pedal?

For a professional driver, there will be a negative relationship between approach speed and perceived time before they turn red. I slow down slightly going towards lights if they've been green for a while, always keeping my foot over the brake until it's safe to accelerate again. No excuse for emergency stops because of lights turning red and no excuse for going through red lights.