Oxford to Cambridge off peak

[lamdar]

I’m writing on behalf of a friend to vent her frustration at being denied boarding an evening peak train to Oxford yesterday at Paddington station using the return portion of an Oxford to Cambridge off peak period return ticket with validity code 4j which I understand has no evening peak restriction. Her ticket was rejected by the ticket barrier and two separate members of staff advised her that her ticket was valid only after 7pm from Paddington. She had to take the tube to Marylebone to take the slower train there instead.

May I ask is her ticket valid on the Paddington evening peak train? And if so what’s the best route to make a complaint to at least claim the tube fare back?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Correct, this was valid. Paddington have form with this. I'd suggest a formal complaint requesting Delay Repay.

 

[Watershed]

The applicable time restrictions depend on the ticket held - trains/routes aren't generically "peak" or "off-peak".

An Oxford to Cambridge Off-Peak Return has restriction code 4J, which as you say (and as shown on the website linked on the ticket: nre.co.uk/4J), has no evening peak restrictions. It is simply valid from 09:30 onwards.

Unfortunately a significant proportion of the Paddington gateline staff, and a smaller but still notable proportion of the onboard staff, have no understanding of the above concept. They seem to think that the restrictions for tickets to/from London Terminals apply to all tickets, regardless of the restriction code.

People have been complaining to GWR about this for more than a decade but nothing has changed; their management evidently doesn't think it is an issue they need to bother addressing.

You should complain to GWR and ask to be reimbursed the cost of your additional Tube fare, plus Delay Repay as appropriate to the delay you incurred by travelling from Marylebone rather than taking the Paddington train you intended to use (12.5% of your return if 15-29 mins, 25% if 30-59 mins, 50% if 60-119 mins).

 

[BasildonBob]

The applicable time restrictions depend on the ticket held - trains/routes aren't generically "peak" or "off-peak".

An Oxford to Cambridge Off-Peak Return has restriction code 4J, which as you say (and as shown on the website linked on the ticket: nre.co.uk/4J), has no evening peak restrictions. It is simply valid from 09:30 onwards.

Unfortunately a significant proportion of the Paddington gateline staff, and a smaller but still notable proportion of the onboard staff, have no understanding of the above concept. They seem to think that the restrictions for tickets to/from London Terminals apply to all tickets, regardless of the restriction code.

People have been complaining to GWR about this for more than a decade but nothing has changed; their management evidently doesn't think it is an issue they need to bother addressing.

You should complain to GWR and ask to be reimbursed the cost of your additional Tube fare, plus Delay Repay as appropriate to the delay you incurred by travelling from Marylebone rather than taking the Paddington train you intended to use (12.5% of your return if 15-29 mins, 25% if 30-59 mins, 50% if 60-119 mins).

Interestingly, the GWR website also seems to think this restriction exists:

 

[4COR]

People have been complaining to GWR about this for more than a decade but nothing has changed; their management evidently doesn't think it is an issue they need to bother addressing.

Indeed - and my wife has also had exactly the same issue at Paddington with exactly the same ticket. In her instance, she resorted to showing another gateline staff member the ticket with the restriction code wording on her phone and was let through with some surprise and "oh, good job you knew where to look for that" kind of answer....

Interestingly, the GWR website also seems to think this restriction exists:

That's the off peak day return (CDR, restriction code C4) - it *is* restricted in the evening, unlike the off-peak return (SVR, restriction code 4J) which isn't in the same way. Choose the off Peak Return and it will (should!) be valid.

 

[Watershed]

You've selected the Off-Peak Day Return (CDR), which has restriction code C4 - that does indeed have evening peak restrictions (introduced a year or two ago).

The OP held an Off-Peak Return (SVR), which has restriction code 4J. This has no evening peak restrictions.

It's bonkers that day and period return tickets have such different restrictions for the same journey but you can be sure that any 'simplification' would not go in the passenger's favour here.

 

[BasildonBob]

Whereas the National Rail website is happy to offer those same "peak time" return journies (albeit at a higher price for the same off-peak return with Network card)

You've selected the Off-Peak Day Return (CDR), which has restriction code C4 - that does indeed have evening peak restrictions (introduced a year or two ago).

The OP held an Off-Peak Return (SVR), which has restriction code 4J. This has no evening peak restrictions.

It's bonkers that day and period return tickets have such different restrictions for the same journey but you can be sure that any 'simplification' would not go in the passenger's favour here.

Ah understood, thanks for the clarification.

 

[plugwash]

It's bonkers that day and period return tickets have such different restrictions

In the late BR/early privatisation days there were "cheap day returns" and "saver returns", which always had totally different restrictoins but they also had totally different names.

Then the powers that be decided to rename the tickets to very similar sounding names, but not to unify the actual restrictions.

The restrictions for both types of ticket have gradually got more restrictive over the years, but there doesn't seem to have been any attempt to bring them into sync.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Wait just a few more years and you won't need to worry about going via Paddington for an Oxford-Cambridge journey.....

 

[700720]

Wait just a few more years and you won't need to worry about going via Paddington for an Oxford-Cambridge journey....

More like a few decades...

 

[lamdar]

Thank you all for your advices. GWR has agreed partial refund as a good will gesture. They do genuinely believe that the ticket shouldn’t be valid. They said Great Northern might have made an error, as no other off peak tickets are valid in evening peak hour from Paddington.

Maybe they should introduce a super off peak return between Oxford and Cambridge and cut price. I remember Charlbury Cambridge super off peak return is cheaper than Oxford.

 

[TheDavibob]

Thank you all for your advices. GWR has agreed partial refund as a good will gesture. They do genuinely believe that the ticket shouldn’t be valid. They said Great Northern might have made an error, as no other off peak tickets are valid in evening peak hour from Paddington.

But that's not even remotely true, there are oodles of longish distance journeys from the east and southeast that are completely off-peak through the evening, via Paddington.

 

[jfollows]

Thank you all for your advices. GWR has agreed partial refund as a good will gesture. They do genuinely believe that the ticket shouldn’t be valid. They said Great Northern might have made an error, as no other off peak tickets are valid in evening peak hour from Paddington.

Good will doesn’t come into it, GWR is wrong.
I can see why your friend might give up and take the partial refund, but if she wants to pursue it she will eventually get a full refund, but it might not be worth the effort.
GWR is terrible at doing this sort of thing repeatedly. It clearly employs staff and doesn’t train them properly and allows them to make things up, notoriously at Paddington station but clearly elsewhere also.

EDIT Oh, I think “partial refund” was probably the tube fare asked for anyway, so no point pursuing further I guess. Problem is, next time …..

 

[redreni]

Good will doesn’t come into it, GWR is wrong.

Agreed.

EDIT Oh, I think “partial refund” was probably the tube fare asked for anyway, so no point pursuing further I guess. Problem is, next time …..

I mean, it's not only the fare, is it, it's the greatly delayed arrival at Oxford. Not to mention the stress and inconvenience.

I'm not sure if delay repay was requested, but if it wasn't I'd suggest requesting it and pursuing that for as long as it takes until it is paid (but then, I'm stubborn). Eventually somebody's going to decide it's just not worth the hassle, but I generally prefer it if that's the party that is in the wrong.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thank you all for your advices. GWR has agreed partial refund as a good will gesture. They do genuinely believe that the ticket shouldn’t be valid. They said Great Northern might have made an error, as no other off peak tickets are valid in evening peak hour from Paddington.

That's just completely false. There are loads of them that are.

 

[yorkie]

Thank you all for your advices. GWR has agreed partial refund as a good will gesture. They do genuinely believe that the ticket shouldn’t be valid. They said Great Northern might have made an error, as no other off peak tickets are valid in evening peak hour from Paddington.

Maybe they should introduce a super off peak return between Oxford and Cambridge and cut price. I remember Charlbury Cambridge super off peak return is cheaper than Oxford.

Go back to them and tell them they are wrong.

Was the ticket bought from our site? If so, please let me know as if that is the case, we will provide additional support, to see if we can get a better outcome and an apology/acceptance that your ticket was valid.

 

[Kite159]

The typical response from customer service 'we were right, you were wrong, must be the fault of someone else because we live in a silo where off-peaks are not allowed regardless on the actual restriction code but in this case we will offer you a small goodwill gesture to shut you up in the hope of not following up'

Bit like the poster travelling on Chiltern from Scarborough where it eventually took someone high up to step in to tell the front liners they are wrong. If in doubt look it up.

I hope the OP pushes back to get a better response from GWR customer services.

 

[akm]

Perhaps one of those pricing managers that we're always being told read this forum could quietly have a word. Or maybe not so quietly! (while still internally, of course)

 

[lamdar]

Go back to them and tell them they are wrong.

Was the ticket bought from our site? If so, please let me know as if that is the case, we will provide additional support, to see if we can get a better outcome and an apology/acceptance that your ticket was valid.

Thank you for your help. Sorry I didn’t make it clear. She got a refund for half of the return fare. I’ve checked that this equals to delay repayment for over an hour delay, which seems to be fair.

 

[redreni]

Thank you for your help. Sorry I didn’t make it clear. She got a refund for half of the return fare. I’ve checked that this equals to delay repayment for over an hour delay, which seems to be fair.

Yeah, in a perfect world one would also want the tube fare back as that's a direct out-of-pocket expense caused by GWR's wrongful refusal to accept a valid ticket, though I appreciate the effort to reward ratio in pursuing that may mean you won't wish to.