Paddington Elizabeth line escalator luggage shaming camera

[Dr Hoo]

There have been generic announcements across the ‘Underground’ asking people with (heavy) luggage to use lifts *where available* for ages, alongside other aspects of escalator use.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Passengers certainly aren't expected to take luggage down escalators at quite a lot of stations...

Escalators will have signage saying not to take these items plus wheelchairs, small dogs(unless you're carrying them) and certainly no prams because of multiple incidents.

I've seen in the last few years however contrary to those warnings and signs and a working avaliable lift, all those plus more go down an escalator of which mostly out of control suitcases and a rouge pram with a baby in it has gone flying down an escalator.

It clearly is serious at Pad more so because of the numbers on those escalators when a loose object comes flying down, other stations you might get away with it because there is simply not the volume of people on those escalators.

Sure the number if lifts, now with hindsight is definitely not enough but I'd assume the space was a very limiting factor in at the time what would have been seen as a far promising estimate of passenger usage in about 2 years of running.

I know that isn't an excuse as all the signs, especially with Woolwich station on the EL(which was severely underestimated and as a result built much undercapacity, leading to regular queues for the escalators) but I can only assume the estimates made were strictly based on the budget and not overrunning any more than they already had with the overall project.

 

[Sunil_P]

My friend's mum is the opposite, she can't do escalators, especially going down.

 

[sh24]

Is this all a cunning plan to boost usage of the HEX where no such escalator/lift issues occur at Paddington?

 

[hwl]

Passengers certainly aren't expected to take luggage down escalators at quite a lot of stations...

Escalators will have signage saying not to take these items plus wheelchairs, small dogs(unless you're carrying them) and certainly no prams because of multiple incidents.

I've seen in the last few years however contrary to those warnings and signs and a working avaliable lift, all those plus more go down an escalator of which mostly out of control suitcases and a rouge pram with a baby in it has gone flying down an escalator.

It clearly is serious at Pad more so because of the numbers on those escalators when a loose object comes flying down, other stations you might get away with it because there is simply not the volume of people on those escalators.

Sure the number if lifts, now with hindsight is definitely not enough but I'd assume the space was a very limiting factor in at the time what would have been seen as a far promising estimate of passenger usage in about 2 years of running.

I know that isn't an excuse as all the signs, especially with Woolwich station on the EL(which was severely underestimated and as a result built much undercapacity, leading to regular queues for the escalators) but I can only assume the estimates made were strictly based on the budget and not overrunning any more than they already had with the overall project.

Woolwich was later addition that had to be force in with a fairly minimal scope need to do that.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Woolwich was later addition that had to be force in with a fairly minimal scope need to do that.

Agreed but it ended up being one of the first stations completed and the research indeed seemed extremely rushed as it assumed passengers like Abbey-Wood station would only come from specifically it's own area rather than neighboring areas and also transfer from other modes of transport.

To almost have not built it was an oversight in the first place as the depot was still getting dumped in the backyard of plumstead residents and in an area where SE at the time was one of the only train services into London, often packed and very unreliable.

It did seem a lot of research and estimates were very very conservative for stations like Pad, woolwich and Abbey. Interestingly enough where it wasn't is Canary Wharf which actually didn't affect the Jubliee line numbers as much and according to the last headcount is slightly surpassed in passenger numbers by Abbey-Wood but has ample escalators and lift provisions at the station compared to Pad and the other two.

 

[Horizon22]

So in my opinion the measures and the message should be very specific to the situation at Paddington, so that passengers can understand that it is not a global change in policy as such, but a request at that location specifically.

Has anyone suggested it isn’t?

 

[J-2739]

I saw an example of these 'shaming' cameras in operation today, and thought 'is this the best they've got?!'. As if this is going to put anybody off!

 

[Dr Hoo]

I saw an example of these 'shaming' cameras in operation today, and thought 'is this the best they've got?!'. As if this is going to put anybody off!

No, of course it's not. The 'squeeze bars' should make a more obvious physical point. Are you suggesting the normal default 'solution' of 'shouty men with megaphones'?

 

[J-2739]

No, of course it's not. The 'squeeze bars' should make a more obvious physical point. Are you suggesting the normal default 'solution' of 'shouty men with megaphones'?

That would be quite ghastly, so no thanks.

Will these screens be kept once they install the squeeze bars? It may be harder, but some people may try it on, nonetheless.

 

[RGM654]

I seem to remember in Stockholm a repeating video of a suitcase tumbling down an escalator, the lesson being to keep it above you. In London there are surely many stations where escalators are the only way between levels, hence the "where provided" quoted above for lifts. For those escalators the risks must be considered tolerable. Where there are lifts, using those instead of the escalators presumably results in a very small reduction of risk, but if that causes other problems (delay walking further, difficulty finding the lift, psychological distress, etc) is that reasonable?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is this all a cunning plan to boost usage of the HEX where no such escalator/lift issues occur at Paddington?

People travelling to and from Heathrow should be encouraged on to Crossrail to avoid them having to take suitcases on escalators when changing from HEX to Tube at Paddington.

There have been generic announcements across the ‘Underground’ asking people with (heavy) luggage to use lifts *where available* for ages, alongside other aspects of escalator use.

As others have said, part of the issue is that so few stations on TfL have lifts. It's a tough message to explain that something which is "safe" (tolerated) at Angel isn't "safe" (tolerated) at Paddington.

The other issue is that you don't usually get lifts directly from the platform to street level. YOu normally have to take one lift from platform to concourse and then another from concourse to the street. I understand why this is the case, but if anyone thinks queueing for a lift once is tedious, try doing it twice.

 

[Horizon22]

People travelling to and from Heathrow should be encouraged on to Crossrail to avoid them having to take suitcases on escalators when changing from HEX to Tube at Paddington.


As others have said, part of the issue is that so few stations on TfL have lifts. It's a tough message to explain that something which is "safe" (tolerated) at Angel isn't "safe" (tolerated) at Paddington.

The other issue is that you don't usually get lifts directly from the platform to street level. YOu normally have to take one lift from platform to concourse and then another from concourse to the street. I understand why this is the case, but if anyone thinks queueing for a lift once is tedious, try doing it twice.

The Paddington lifts aren’t street to platform either; there’s a concourse level lift (as shown in this map)

 

[sh24]

People travelling to and from Heathrow should be encouraged on to Crossrail to avoid them having to take suitcases on escalators when changing from HEX to Tube at Paddington.

Oh that does make sense, but not sure someone with the disposable income for a HEX ticket will take kindly to the escalator police and a 5min queue for a lift.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Oh that does make sense, but not sure someone with the disposable income for a HEX ticket will take kindly to the escalator police and a 5min queue for a lift.

Well, if they got to the platform at Heathrow T5 they probably used a lift down. (Yes, other terminals are available.)

 

[sprunt]

I seem to remember in Stockholm a repeating video of a suitcase tumbling down an escalator, the lesson being to keep it above you. In London there are surely many stations where escalators are the only way between levels, hence the "where provided" quoted above for lifts. For those escalators the risks must be considered tolerable. Where there are lifts, using those instead of the escalators presumably results in a very small reduction of risk, but if that causes other problems (delay walking further, difficulty finding the lift, psychological distress, etc) is that reasonable?

I wonder if they might be exposing themself to legal liability if there were an incident at a station without lifts? Seems it would be easy for an ambulance chasing lawyer to say that the announcements about using lifts "where provided" show that TfL are aware that there's a dangerous environment in stations without lifts, but aren't doing anything about it.

 

[thomalex]

I saw an example of these 'shaming' cameras in operation today, and thought 'is this the best they've got?!'. As if this is going to put anybody off!

To me that’s an example of a bag thats perfectly sensible to take in an escalator. Again, there is no where near the capacity for everyone with any luggage to use the lift. It is also poor for people with disabilities who end up queuing.

They should be focussing on making a clear message to hold on to luggage securely on escalators, and large luggage goes in the lift.

 

[Silent]

so whats the problem with suitcases on escalators?

Maybe it slows down passenger flow I am thinking. We as passenger wouldn't really care though. It's like how if people just stand on escalators on both sides apparently the passenger flow is better than people standing on one side and walking on the other side.

Is it not another opportunity missed? A new railway should have escalators designed for the use they are going to get ie passengers with suitcases. I am sure a longer step would be possible when you start with a blank canvas.

Or they should consider designing bigger lifts that it doesn't feel like an additional option to someone with a suitcase and feels more like the logical option.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Is it not another opportunity missed? A new railway should have escalators designed for the use they are going to get ie passengers with suitcases. I am sure a longer step would be possible when you start with a blank canvas.

Does anyone know of any ‘long step’ escalators, e.g. at airports? Any pictures?

 

[Jamiescott1]

Following my earlier comments about not enough lift provision. There are currently 12 people (1 bike, pushchair and luggage) waiting for the lift at mainline level.
Thats about 5 lifts worth of passengers wanting to go down, not counting passengers also at street level.

 

[thomalex]

Following my earlier comments about not enough lift provision. There are currently 12 people (1 bike, pushchair and luggage) waiting for the lift at mainline level.
Thats about 5 lifts worth of passengers wanting to go down, not counting passengers also at street level.

Which is exactly why this approach is wrong

 

[Thames99]

Today I noticed the board lighting up to shame a mother and child who it clearly thought resembled a suitcase.

 

[fkofilee]

Of course... No one has ever dropped a suitcase etc down the escalator ever... Right?... Right?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Of course... No one has ever dropped a suitcase etc down the escalator ever... Right?... Right?

I've had one dropped on me. I was able to stop it, but I don't think saying it had the potential to kill someone is overtalking things if it was a heavy hard case and the person was frail or a child.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I've had one dropped on me. I was able to stop it, but I don't think saying it had the potential to kill someone is overtalking things if it was a heavy hard case and the person was frail or a child.

Unfortunately I won't name where but that's happened to an elderly lady in a core station on the Elizabeth Line. Plus multiple serious cases of a suitcase taking people out again on the escalators.

So it's not a surprise they'll be high on trying to prevent such serious incidents and near misses again. At stations like Woolwich, one suitcase falling during the peak with the amount that go up those escalators would be horrendous if the gravitational momentum picks up. Not many places to run when a 23KG suitcases is barrelling down towards you or much worse a person hit by one.

 

[modernrail]

They have massively undercooked lift capacity at Paddington and Farringdon and so this will continue to happen forever. Encouraging users to put their suitcase above them is probably the best that can be done.

How they got it so wrong is beyond me. They are huge interchange stations. Paddington in particular is baffling as they could have put much bigger capacity lifts in fairly easily.

 

[Peter0124]

They have massively undercooked lift capacity at Paddington and Farringdon and so this will continue to happen forever. Encouraging users to put their suitcase above them is probably the best that can be done.

How they got it so wrong is beyond me. They are huge interchange stations. Paddington in particular is baffling as they could have put much bigger capacity lifts in fairly easily.

You'd think on a line like Crossrail which serves Heathrow, and is one interchange from Gatwick, Luton and Stansted, that they would've thought there'd be a need for extra lifts.

 

[Via Bank]

Welcome to British value engineering.

 

[Jimini]

An update from IanVisits on this:

Paddington station using turtles to reduce escalator accidents

Paddington's Elizabeth line station is trialling temporary

www.ianvisits.co.uk

Paddington station using turtles to reduce escalator accidents​

Paddington’s Elizabeth line station is trialling temporary “turtle barriers” to persuade people to use the lifts if they have heavy luggage instead of lugging it down the escalators.

The station has two main entrances, although most people use the one at the southern end as it’s closest to the mainline station’s concourse. While the station has two lifts in addition to the escalators, many people hauling heavy luggage instinctively head towards the escalators.

That can have problems, not just with people walking on the escalators trying to squeeze past the luggage bags as there can be a risk of people struggling with their luggage at the ends of the escalators, causing mini pile-ups.
TfL recently installed a large temporary video screen asking people with luggage to use the lifts, but is now also trialling a temporary barrier.

A staff member informed me that when necessary, they bring out “the turtle” to reduce the station’s opening space in front of the escalators so they can redirect people with luggage and prams to the nearby lifts.

The turtle isn’t as ominous as it sounds — it’s the name of the folding yellow barriers often used to close off areas or narrow entrances.
In a statement sent to the Westminster Labour group TfL said “Since the Elizabeth line’s launch in May 2022, Paddington station has recorded a notably high number of escalator incidents compared to other Elizabeth line stations. This trial aims to enhance customer safety and mitigate these accidents by impeding access to the escalators for customers with heavy luggage, bicycles, or prams and re-directing them to use lifts.”

It is possible to put width reduction barriers in front of escalators that block luggage — as you might have seen at airports and the like, but those slow everyone down as well, and at a very busy station such as Paddington might not be viable.

In the meantime, look out for turtles at Paddington.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought they meant those airport style barriers. Narrowing the general escalator access using those pull-across barriers is a disastrously stupid idea and may create dangerous crowding situations in excess of the bags being on the escalators to start with.