Panicking massively

[worried787566]

I received a notice from a toc the other week with notice to prosecute unless I pay a fine which I’ve paid and return a form then they’ll close the matter. My only concern is the form I returned which asked for basic details - inc job title. Why do they require the job part? Im really worried about what they are doing with this data and any impact on my employment. Any advice would be appreciated if anyone knows what they do with the data once it’s obtained as im losing sleep and it’s all consuming.

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

Would you be able to post up the correspondence you've received please, to help us to advise you? Cover up your name, address and any reference numbers.

 

[SussexMan]

If you have paid the amount requested, nothing further will happen other than they will hold your details on file so would be able to link this incident with any future ones. You can stop panicking about this. If you wish to not get stressed about this sort of thing in future, just make sure you always have a valid ticket.

 

[worried787566]

If you have paid the amount requested, nothing further will happen other than they will hold your details on file so would be able to link this incident with any future ones. You can stop panicking about this. If you wish to not get stressed about this sort of thing in future, just make sure you always have a valid ticket.

So it’s just for their records do you reckon and not cross checking it against anything official? They obviously had my address anyway given I received the letter

 

[SussexMan]

They obviously had my address anyway given I received the letter and I’m not sure how they got that…

Are you saying that at no time have you been stopped and spoken to by a member of staff about a ticketing incident? What does the letter actually refer to? You seem to accept you have done something wrong as you paid the amount they requested.

However, if you have paid an out-of-court settlement nothing further will come from the incident or incidents which the letter refers to. If there are other times you have travelled without a valid ticket which are not referred to in the letter, then it is possible further action could be taken.

 

[Pushpit]

Best not to worry about this. It won't affect your employment or future travel, given the (limited) information you have provided here. If it's an out of court disposal it's just the train operating company that will know about this. The only value in worrying is to make 101% certain that you always board a train with a valid ticket in hand from this point forward. I guess it was a frightening issue for you, but it's something you should put behind you now you have settled with the train company. By all means give more information if you want more specific advice / reassurance.

 

[worried787566]

Best not to worry about this. It won't affect your employment or future travel, given the (limited) information you have provided here. If it's an out of court disposal it's just the train operating company that will know about this. The only value in worrying is to make 101% certain that you always board a train with a valid ticket in hand from this point forward. I guess it was a frightening issue for you, but it's something you should put behind you now you have settled with the train company. By all means give more information if you want more specific advice / reassurance.

 

[jfollows]

Do you have much experience with all of this? If so is it possible for me to send you a private message?

If you want more reassurance I strongly suggest that you post copies of the notices you are referring to, as requested, rather than put someone in an awkward position by asking for advice away from the forum.

 

[worried787566]

If you want more reassurance I strongly suggest that you post copies of the notices you are referring to, as requested, rather than put someone in an awkward position by asking for advice away from the forum.

Sorry I just don’t want to put anything identifiable so publicly, the TOCs may read these. It may be generic or it may not be, this is my first experience with anything of this nature. I wouldn’t want to put someone in the spot either so I’ll close this off on here.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sorry I just don’t want to put anything identifiable so publicly, the TOCs may read these. It may be generic or it may not be, this is my first experience with anything of this nature. I wouldn’t want to put someone in the spot either so I’ll close this off on here.

You don’t need to show your name in the paperwork. It is almost certainly generic paperwork.

 

[Pushpit]

Sorry I just don’t want to put anything identifiable so publicly, the TOCs may read these. It may be generic or it may not be, this is my first experience with anything of this nature. I wouldn’t want to put someone in the spot either so I’ll close this off on here.

Fair enough, and it's very much your choice. The TOCs definitely do check these threads, but not necessarily in a bad way, as far as I can tell. Even when one particular poster really, really was taking the proverbial, the TOC came up with a sensible outcome partly based on what they had read here. They want their money, they want reassurance you won't steal from the company again, otherwise they want you as a happy customer, and have zero interest in damaging your employment history. Do it again, well that could be very different.

 

[worried787566]

I just wish I knew what they’re using the data for wrt needing job title. Then I can move on mentally

 

[Brissle Girl]

If you want more reassurance I strongly suggest that you post copies of the notices you are referring to, as requested, rather than put someone in an awkward position by asking for advice away from the forum.

Indeed, and the forum administrators strongly discourage advice being given outside the public part of the forum.

Offering advice on disputes away from the main forum. Please read.

Good afternoon everyone. An issue has come up in a post in this thread that we’d like to take a moment to clarify. Probably for fairly obvious reasons we are not particularly comfortable with a situation like that happening away from the main forum. We would always expect members who want to...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[worried787566]

Indeed, and the forum administrators strongly discourage advice being given outside the public part of the forum.

Offering advice on disputes away from the main forum. Please read.

Good afternoon everyone. An issue has come up in a post in this thread that we’d like to take a moment to clarify. Probably for fairly obvious reasons we are not particularly comfortable with a situation like that happening away from the main forum. We would always expect members who want to...

www.railforums.co.uk

Understood. Apologies again

 

[Pushpit]

I just wish I knew what they’re using the data for wrt needing job title. Then I can move on mentally

You do have data protection rights in this area, however TOCs can hold personal data for crime prevention purposes. Once you are a couple of years down the road then I think you have an argument over the proportionality of retaining historic personal information for long periods.

I suspect the TOCs don't do a massive amount of thinking when asking for this information, there are some forms that require National Insurance Numbers for example, which I think is dangerous (some gov.uk website validations uses this for ID purposes). Why do they do this? I suspect it is firstly to be able to identify you in a future event, and secondly because they are using the form two ways. One for people like you, how are settled out of court (I assume). Another for those who will be prosecuted, particularly going the Single Justice route, and may end up with an Attachment of Earnings if they keep avoiding other communications. There's another thread currently in the forum which seems to show this happening. So while it would have been better to not answer the question or to answer it very generically - a student maybe "unemployed" at the time of answering and indeed vice versa - however depending on the details I doubt it's going much further forward.

 

[Titfield]

I am not sure that the OP is continuing to read this but they could always ask the TOC why they require this information and what they do with it. After all once the out of court settlement is paid the matter is closed and no further action can be taken unless something else comes to their attention.

The Op could of course have returned the form either with the box left blank. In any case most job titles are incredibly generic or you could put a more generic job title for example admin clerk or admin manager says nothing. I cant imagine a TOC chasing this data if not supplied. As has been said above all they want is the fare avoided etc as @Pushpit stated.

Whilst one could imagine that the TOC has a highly sophisticated team devoted to building up a profile of fare evaders that seems to me to be extraordinarily unlikely. More likely is that when the form was created someone just put the question on there without any thought as to whether it was appropriate to ask the question or indeed do with the data once it was collected.

 

[AlterEgo]

I just wish I knew what they’re using the data for wrt needing job title. Then I can move on mentally

They cannot legally tell your employer.

 

[WesternLancer]

I just wish I knew what they’re using the data for wrt needing job title. Then I can move on mentally

Not saying these are your circs at all (as you have paid) but this current thread can give a clue as to why they want extra info about things - basically if they don't get paid it makes it easier for pursuing other avenues to get money owed and simplify admin costs in doing that - this case would seem to be the court finding a way to get their fine money - so as I say not like your case but you get the idea.

Never received any letter about fare evasion. Now they've gone directly to my employer with a bigger fine

I got given a fine for fare evasion over 6 months ago. Was told I would get details in the post. Never received anything. Now my employer has been instructed to deduct £500 from my pay. I assume the increase is because of nonpayment, but if I never got any letter, how can that be my fault. Also...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[fandroid]

Those prosecution teams are very busy. That info will go under "file and forget", and no-one will be ferreting about when their main task is getting money back that is owed to the rail company.

 

[Tallguy]

We have previously seen TOC’s and investigation companies asking for things such as job title and NI number. You are under no legal obligation as far as I am aware to provide this information which is irrelevant to their requirements. I suggest you do not provide such info

 

[Richardr]

I received a notice from a toc the other week with notice to prosecute unless I pay a fine which I’ve paid and return a form then they’ll close the matter. My only concern is the form I returned which asked for basic details - inc job title.

Was it actually just job title with respect to your job? If so, in addition to what others have said about it being almost certainly irrelevant, job title won't mean much given you have paid, for virtually everyone job title will not be attached to an individual employer.

 

[Randomer]

If so, in addition to what others have said about it being almost certainly irrelevant, job title won't mean much given you have paid, for virtually everyone job title will not be attached to an individual employer.

I wouldn't count on that. My role, outside the railway, has a unique title and would absolutely be identifying as to who my employer is with a simple internet search. Having said that I agree that it is effectively meaningless to the TOC asking for payment, they aren't going to contact your employer.

As others have said you don't have to give the TOC your job title in any correspondence. They are offering a settlement before taking legal action so you don't have to respond at all but if you do wish to pay the offered settlement some kind of response is required. Personally I doubt the lack of a job title on the form will result in the payment not being accepted to close the matter.

The only potential issue here is if the opening poster is accused of committing a dishonesty offence in a role where such things have professional registration requirements to self report. I'm guessing if they are in such a role you will know your professional bodies rules around such things.

 

[Titfield]

The only potential issue here is if the opening poster is accused of committing a dishonesty offence in a role where such things have professional registration requirements to self report. I'm guessing if they are in such a role you will know your professional bodies rules around such things.

Which is why (a) do not commit offences in the first place (b) an out of court settlement is preferable to sustaining a conviction.

It is perhaps worth noting that in some professions the regulators are becoming more alive to instances where the requirement to report is not met but the behaviours would call into question whether the person meets the fpp (fit and proper person) test.