Park Royal car accident - driver charged

[Ediswan]

Indeed - a man on my street has a car with a German number plate and has had it for the 4 years I’ve lived in the house and based upon Streetview images has had it for at least 8 years, despite you only being allowed a foreign registered car for 6 months unless you meet a limited criteria which includes normally living outside the UK. What’s even more suspicious is the steering wheel is on the normal side for UK vehicles (the country it is registered for drives on the other side to the UK).

He’s even somehow got a residents parking permit for it.

German plates with German letter/number grouping, or German style plates showing a UK registration ?

 

[bramling]

These posts are airing the view that driving offence sentencing should be divided (and justified) in two parts:

1) as a punishment for the hazardous behaviour of the driver and hopefuly, a deterrent to others and of a repeat by the offender​

2) as compensation (actual or moral) for the injured party​

There a few offences that merit quite severe measures on 1) above - e.g. alcohol/drug use and using an electronic device (phone) but seem to be treated as 'victimless crimes'.* When they are contributory to injury, the public, egged on by the media, suddenly rush into moral panic, but there is no admission that the real cause is the lack of dealing with the 'no consequences events'.

* I would also add bald tyres, faulty brakes/steering, failed lighting and various other faults known to the driver at the time of an incident

Nice to be able to agree entirely with you on something. Whether something, by good fortune, is victimless I find comparatively irrelevant. If we dealt with the “you got lucky this time” offences more harshly then firstly it would act as more of a deterrent, and secondly it would prevent some people being in a position to offend again.

As you say, we have an odd attitude to this. Someone gets caught drink driving and gets a 15 month ban and it seems to be something to laugh about on Facebook, yet kill a child and there’s moral outrage. I find it hard to reconcile this.

 

[Mojo]

German plates with German letter/number grouping, or German style plates showing a UK registration ?

It isn’t a UK number plate and isn’t recognised on the UK gov MoT Test/VED checker.

 

[zero]

Indeed - a man on my street has a car with a German number plate and has had it for the 4 years I’ve lived in the house and based upon Streetview images has had it for at least 8 years, despite you only being allowed a foreign registered car for 6 months unless you meet a limited criteria which includes normally living outside the UK. What’s even more suspicious is the steering wheel is on the normal side for UK vehicles (the country it is registered for drives on the other side to the UK).

He’s even somehow got a residents parking permit for it.

There are a few Ukraine-registered cars on my street which have been here since March. I suppose their owners may count as normally living outside the UK.

Also not too far away there is a Romanian van and a Swiss van, which have been around for several years, and which both have their (presumably) owners' names and trades painted on the side along with their UK phone numbers, and for one of them, their .co.uk website...

 

[AndyPJG]

A40 crash: Man admits causing death by dangerous driving

BBC News

The driver of a car that went through a barrier and on to Tube tracks in west London has pleaded guilty to causing death by dangerous driving.
Rida Kazem, 23, was driving a Range Rover carrying Yagmur Ozden, 33, when he hit a parked Tesla near Park Royal station on the A40 and lost control.
Ms Ozden died in the crash and another passenger, Zamarod Arif, was injured.
At Isleworth Crown Court, Kazem also pleaded guilty to causing serious injury by dangerous driving.
Kazem, who lost a leg in the crash, is due to appear at the same court on 21 April for sentencing. Ms Arif's injuries were not life-threatening.
Residents who lived near the scene of the crash, on 22 August, had reported hearing loud engine noises before a "huge bash".

An inquest into Ms Ozden's death was opened and adjourned in August.
It heard she was born in Baghdad in Iraq but lived in Finchley, north London, and worked as a beautician.
Prosecutor Nicholas Hearn told the court that Kazem, from Greenford in west London, had previous speeding convictions, including one recent offence for driving at 95mph in a 50mph zone.
Judge Robin Johnson adjourned the case and remanded Kazem in custody, while a pre-sentencing report is prepared.

 

[Watto1990]

Rida Kazem, 23, was driving a Range Rover carrying Yagmur Ozden, 33, when he hit a parked Tesla near Park Royal station on the A40 and lost control.

This is a complete reversal of the sequence of events, right? Disappointing, and irresponsible reporting from the BBC if so.

 

[Cowley]

This is a complete reversal of the sequence of events, right? Disappointing, and irresponsible reporting from the BBC if so.

What do you think they got wrong?

 

[4COR]

What do you think they got wrong?

I mean, arguably, he already wasn't in control before hitting the Tesla (having already gone through a barrier), rather than hitting it and then losing control. The original story (linked up from that page), appears to describe it better.

 

[Gloster]

What do you think they got wrong?

The report says that the car hit the Tesla and the driver then lost control. I think it has been established that he lost control, left the road and then hit the Tesla which was being charged in a parking area. The problem is that the item is likely to have been written by or from information supplied by a stringer or junior local reporter covering a suburban court, rather than an experienced in-house professional. The BBC have to trust that they know their job and doesn’t have the resources to check every detail when they are not legally significant.

 

[Cowley]

The report says that the car hit the Tesla and the driver then lost control. I think it has been established that he lost control, left the road and then hit the Tesla which was being charged in a parking area. The problem is that the item is likely to have been written by or from information supplied by a stringer or junior local reporter covering a suburban court, rather than an experienced in-house professional. The BBC have to trust that they know their job and doesn’t have the resources to check every detail when they are not legally significant.

I suppose some of this became clearer as the story came out. Once the video of it hitting the area the Tesla was in it became fairly obvious what had happened. Mind you, details like this:

had previous speeding convictions, including one recent offence for driving at 95mph in a 50mph zone.

Make you wonder how he was still allowed to drive. 95 in a 50 and he clearly didn’t learn anything.

 

[Taunton]

Anyone who has followed this story is well aware that the Range Rover was not only out of control but had been launched through the air like a missile when it chanced to strike the Tesla which was on private property, before ending up on the Underground tracks. The BBC should at least have journalists reporting who know as much as the general public.

I would like to know the status of the driver, what original licence they had from which country, what their current licence status was, whether their insurers have accepted they were compliant with the terms of their insurance, including reporting prior convictions, etc.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It is possible to politely request the BBC to fact check their own web story?

 

[LOL The Irony]

It is possible to politely request the BBC to fact check their own web story?

Yes, you email them.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yes, you email them.

What's the appropriate e-mail address to use in such circumstances?

 

[ainsworth74]

What's the appropriate e-mail address to use in such circumstances?

See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55077304

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[AlterEgo]

What's the appropriate e-mail address to use in such circumstances?

This is the best part of the site to use. https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints/make-a-complaint/#/Complaint

 

[Chris M]

I would like to know the status of the driver, what original licence they had from which country, what their current licence status was, whether their insurers have accepted they were compliant with the terms of their insurance, including reporting prior convictions, etc.

I would expect that most of this is not public knowledge at this point, and given that he pleaded guilty may not become so. However, it does not appear that he has been charged with driving without a valid license and/or without valid insurance so it is a reasonable presumption that he did not commit those offences (i.e. his license and insurance were valid or he held a reasonable and sincere belief that they were valid). Although it is not impossible that (allegedly) fraudulently obtained insurance would be a matter for a separate prosecution by the insurance company. If so then it would be usual for the criminal case to proceed to conclusion first.

 

[Gloster]

It is being reported that the driver has been jailed for seven and a half years and will serve at least five.

 

[ainsworth74]

It is being reported that the driver has been jailed for seven and a half years and will serve at least five.

Hmm, can't find it in the media at present (where did you see it reported?) but that's an extremely disappointing sentence. Whilst I don't think driving offences should be charged like this should be charged as manslaughter (see previous discussion on this thread) five years with two and half on licence isn't sufficient in my view. The sentencing remarks will be very interesting to read as I can only assume that his guilty plea and various other mitigation have played a significant role!

I suppose as well he hasn't even been banned from driving for all that long either. I maintain that if convicted of an offence like this that should be a permanent ban from possessing an driving licence.

 

[Gloster]

Hmm, can't find it in the media at present (where did you see it reported?) but that's an extremely disappointing sentence. Whilst I don't think driving offences should be charged like this should be charged as manslaughter (see previous discussion on this thread) five years with two and half on licence isn't sufficient in my view. The sentencing remarks will be very interesting to read as I can only assume that his guilty plea and various other mitigation have played a significant role!

I suppose as well he hasn't even been banned from driving for all that long either. I maintain that if convicted of an offence like this that should be a permanent ban from possessing an driving licence.

My yahoo News feed from PA Media and checked in Evening Standard.

There was a twelve year ban as well.

 

[ainsworth74]

There was a twelve year ban as well.

Crackers.

 

[adamedwards]

Drivers generally get lenient treatment except in the most outrageous cases. The theory I have read is much of the interpretation of the law dates from the 1930s when only the rich and powerful (and their chidlren) could afford cars and we don't want to see those people sent to prison for long periods of time as that might be very embarassing for someone important.

We have no law of presumed liability* in the UK and Ireland (apart from rear end shunts where the rear car is presumed at fault), unlike in the rest of Europe. That also has a side effect of making it harded for the NHS and others to claim back costs off insurers, so society pays, not the insurance trade. A presumed liability law would be very helpful, but it would sadly be politically toxic.


*
Under both English and Scottish law, a claimant cyclist must prove, on the balance of probabilities, that a defendant driver was negligent. Many safety campaigners, including the UK’s national cycle charity, the CTC, have called for a new system of "presumed liability" - whereby the defendant driver would be presumed to be at fault unless they can prove otherwise.
In most European jurisdictions, an injured cyclist does not need to establish fault on the part of the motorist. The UK is one of only five countries in Europe, alongside Cyprus, Malta, Romania and Ireland, which have not adopted the presumed liability system.

As an English cycling accident lawyer, establishing liability is often a difficult challenge, especially if the cyclist is unable to give evidence due to the nature of their injuries and/or if there are no independent witnesses. The presumed liability system recognises that the liability of one's actions should be proportionate to the degree of danger which they impose on other road users.

https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/newsroom/cycling-accidents-and-presumed-liability-uk-vs-europe/

 

[JohnMcL7]

Hmm, can't find it in the media at present (where did you see it reported?) but that's an extremely disappointing sentence. Whilst I don't think driving offences should be charged like this should be charged as manslaughter (see previous discussion on this thread) five years with two and half on licence isn't sufficient in my view. The sentencing remarks will be very interesting to read as I can only assume that his guilty plea and various other mitigation have played a significant role!

I suppose as well he hasn't even been banned from driving for all that long either. I maintain that if convicted of an offence like this that should be a permanent ban from possessing an driving licence.

I don't know the history to the driver but the sentencing looks in line with the guidelines, there are several aggravating factors but there's also a number of mitigating factors particularly the offender being injured in the collision (which usually carries a reasonable amount of weight) and the death of the victim was from I recall a result of them not wearing a seatbelt which is another mitigating factor. The emotion has to be taken out of the case when they're deciding on the sentence.

 

[MotCO]

My yahoo News feed from PA Media and checked in Evening Standard.

There was a twelve year ban as well.

Is the 12 year ban starting immediately? He will be in prison for 5 of those years so will not be driving then. The ban should take effect after his release from prison.

 

[ainsworth74]

I don't know the history to the driver but the sentencing looks in line with the guidelines, there are several aggravating factors but there's also a number of mitigating factors particularly the offender being injured in the collision (which usually carries a reasonable amount of weight) and the death of the victim was from I recall a result of them not wearing a seatbelt which is another mitigating factor. The emotion has to be taken out of the case when they're deciding on the sentence.

Yes which is why I want to see the sentencing remarks. It may make more sense with that context (I can't recall a sentence which, after reading the sentencing remarks I didn't eventually agree with to be fair) and in that case my issue would be with the guidelines and starting point. Personally where someone has been killed, even though they weren't wearing a seatbelt (which the driver should, of course, ensured that they were), I'm not convinced seven and half years is sufficient. I'm not saying that it should be a whole life tariff or a life sentence with a 30 years before being eligible for parole. But seven and a half years feels light.

Quite apart from it not being a permanent disqualification from driving!

 

[greatkingrat]

The maximum possible sentence is 14 years. Take off a third for pleading guilty gives 9.5 years. The fact the defendant lost a leg would be considered mitigation, so 7.5 years does not seem unreasonable based on the guidelines.

 

[Killingworth]

Link to Evening Standard report here; https://www.standard.co.uk/news/cri...autician-tesla-crash-park-royal-b1081782.html

 

[Meole]

Sad there was no remorse.

 

[D821]

Yes which is why I want to see the sentencing remarks. It may make more sense with that context (I can't recall a sentence which, after reading the sentencing remarks I didn't eventually agree with to be fair) and in that case my issue would be with the guidelines and starting point. Personally where someone has been killed, even though they weren't wearing a seatbelt (which the driver should, of course, ensured that they were),

I thought that I'd someone was over 18 it was their own responsibility to wear a seatbelt, not the driver?

 

[Dr_Paul]

Many safety campaigners, including the UK’s national cycle charity, the CTC, have called for a new system of "presumed liability" -- whereby the defendant driver would be presumed to be at fault unless they can prove otherwise. In most European jurisdictions, an injured cyclist does not need to establish fault on the part of the motorist. The UK is one of only five countries in Europe, alongside Cyprus, Malta, Romania and Ireland, which have not adopted the presumed liability system.

I find this idea that in an accident involving a motor and a bike the former's driver is presumed responsible, to be rather worrying. Whilst when cycling I've had some close shaves with careless drivers, I've also, when driving, had rather more experiences -- fortunately not actual accidents, thanks to my prompt reactions -- usually involving 'box boy' delivery riders, in which the bike was certainly responsible. This idea is more or less an open invitation for thoughtless cyclists to ride in an even more thoughtless manner.