(Partial) West Anglia route additional third track and new station at Meridian Water

[jopsuk]

First time I've seen that- interesting that the concept for Crossrail 2 is to have the slow/crossrail service on the middle two tracks, with most stations not having an Up Fast platform.

 

[hwl]

First time I've seen that- interesting that the concept for Crossrail 2 is to have the slow/crossrail service on the middle two tracks, with most stations not having an Up Fast platform.

Is it? I though the current CR2 concept was (existing track) slows on west side and (new track) fasts on the east?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is it? I though the current CR2 concept was (existing track) slows on west side and (new track) fasts on the east?

Correct. That presentation is 3.5 years out of date.

Also, the project being delivered now has buffer stops at Angel Rd - no connection back into the main line.

 

[Jimini]

Correct. That presentation is 3.5 years out of date.

Also, the project being delivered now has buffer stops at Angel Rd - no connection back into the main line.

Thanks for the info. So whilst there will be an increase of trains between Stratford and Tottenham Hale (and up to Angel Road), the additional ones won't travel any further north, correct? Coppermill Junction (I'm a novice at this but I'm guessing that's the junction where the trains ex. Stratford meet the line out of Liverpool Street?) will continue to be a significant constraint on extending these services onto the main lines up to Cambridge / Stansted, yes? Some of the current wait times on trains out of Stratford at that point are disappointingly predictable.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks for the info. So whilst there will be an increase of trains between Stratford and Tottenham Hale (and up to Angel Road), the additional ones won't travel any further north, correct? Coppermill Junction (I'm a novice at this but I'm guessing that's the junction where the trains ex. Stratford meet the line out of Liverpool Street?) will continue to be a significant constraint on extending these services onto the main lines up to Cambridge / Stansted, yes? Some of the current wait times on trains out of Stratford at that point are disappointingly predictable.

Yes on all counts except the last one. Coppermill Jn is just one of many constraints. There is also the mix of stopping patterns, level crossing down times (Some of them are down 40 mins + per hour already), Broxbourne Jn, level crossing risk at the scores of crossings between Cambridge and Tottenham, the single line tunnel into Stansted, capacity into Cambridge from the south, and power supply.

Other than that, running more train is easy!

 

[Railguy1]

Geoff Marshall visited the Meridian Water site:

It's the 6th February 2018, and in eighteen months time London will get its newest railway station, when Angel Road closes, and Meridian Water take is place - alongside a massive redevelopment for the area including housing and retail Network Rail had a Press Day and invited people along to have a look, and showed us the plans for the new railway line. It's liked (but not 100% yet!) that there will be 4 trains per hour - one every 15 minutes, when this opens in May 2019. The Meridian Water website: https://www.meridianwater.co.uk/

 

[D365]

At this point, what hasn't Geoff visited?

 

[XDM]

At this point, what hasn't Geoff visited?

And may he continue visiting! Geoff is always a good reporter.
If he is accurate, it is depressing that although the bridge near Copper Mill junction is being renewed for 2 tracks, the bridge further towards stratford( not in his report) has been rebuilt for one track only(visible from a Tottenham Hale to Lea Bridge train) and worse, Geoff's track plan shows only a single track & single new platform at Tot Hale, Northumberland Park & Meridien Water. I would be amazed if the scheme allows room for a future fourth platform at Tottenham Hale.
I would say cheapskate, if Network Rail were not the guiding mind.
It is, of course, cheapskate, but at a phenomenally high price. The worst of both worlds, typical Network Rail.

 

[plcd1]

And may he continue visiting! Geoff is always a good reporter.
If he is accurate, it is depressing that although the bridge near Copper Mill junction is being renewed for 2 tracks, the bridge further towards stratford( not in his report) has been rebuilt for one track only(visible from a Tottenham Hale to Lea Bridge train) and worse, Geoff's track plan shows only a single track & single new platform at Tot Hale, Northumberland Park & Meridien Water. I would be amazed if the scheme allows room for a future fourth platform at Tottenham Hale.
I would say cheapskate, if Network Rail were not the guiding mind.
It is, of course, cheapskate, but at a phenomenally high price. The worst of both worlds, typical Network Rail.

I suspect the use of the magic "Crossrail 2" phrase in the video is what has justified the double track replacement bridge.

I think all of the station works are designed to allow for a 4th platform to be added. I agree that T Hale looks tight but if the island central platform is not overly wide then a 4th platform for future southbound trains could be put in. It remains to be seen how long any of the new platforms are - 4 cars or 8 cars. T Hale can take 12 cars at present but I can't see the STAR platform being that long.

I was a little disappointed with the track plan as shown in the video. I had wondered if a shortish section of two tracks, to allow trains to pass, would be provided but seemingly not. This means the train on the third track is going to be very tightly timed and we may end up a n/b train waiting south of the third track junction for the s/b one to leave the three track section. This potentially makes the extra service very prone to delays as the slightest thing may cause the single track section to be cleared late. I also wonder how the STAR service will operate - will it be a 1 or 2 train shuttle or will it be interworked with the existing Cambridge service at Stratford. At present there are longish turnround times at Stratford but these may be shrunk in order to handle 4 tph off one platform (allowing for 1 track to remain clear for ECS workings to / from Temple Mills).

The scheme was iterated through about 7 options. The budget was certainly capped and time limited in the past which inevitably pulled down the scope to the bare minimum we have now. I'm not sure I necessarily blame Network Rail here - I suspect there was a strong degree of over expectation as to what politicians thought they could get for the money. The small saving grace is that the wide alignment is still extant - parts of it could so easily have been gobbled up by the new highway infrastructure added in the area in the last 20 years or so. I also suspect that there is an element of trade off as well - why spend a fortune now on a lot of infrastructure when both WAML 4 tracking and Crossrail 2 have been floating around in the background as potential schemes that would fund large scale capacity enhancement.

 

[Bald Rick]

It's all being built with provision for Crossrail 2. Some parts of it get completely rebuilt for Crossrail 2, so there's no point spending big money on those bits now.

Incidentally there isn't a separate 4 tracking scheme. It's Crossrail 2 or nothing.

 

[jopsuk]

if platforms are being built with provision for CR2, I'd imagine they'll be at least 200m or easily extended to 200m (or 250m), to match platforms on the SW metro.

 

[AlanFry1]

I cannot find a thread dedicated for the opening of Meridian Water Station - located between Northumberland Park Station and Ponders End Station - due to replace the current desolate Angel Road Station and will open on the site opposite the Tesco and Ikea Superstores if anyone is aware of the geography of the area.

The station will apparently also have (4?) platforms - located incredibly close to Northumberland Park!

The station is due to open May 2019, as part of the STAR project on the WAML and future Crossrail 2 if that materialises.

 

[jeremyjh]

3 platforms, passive provision for a fourth.

 

[AlanFry1]

3 platforms, passive provision for a fourth.

Thanks for clearing it up! Was watching Geoffs video (Londonist) thought they mentioned 4 but I thought it was three

 

[plcd1]

Just to give a little update. Work is now proceeding apace on the new platform at T Hale. The platform edge structures are now pretty much in place. Part of the glass panelling on the existing structure over the tracks has been removed and replaced with wooden hoardings. Track has now been delivered and laid roughly in position all the way from just south of T Hale to just north of Lea Bridge. The delivered track is double stacked in the vicinity of two new bridges and where work is being done on foundations. The track will need to be properly aligned, ballasted and tamped but it is now in place. At Coppermill Junction new electrication masts that cover the full future alignment have been installed and wired. A couple of STAR only masts have also been installed near Lea Bridge.

I've yet to travel north of T Hale to see what's happening at Northumberland Park / Meridian Water in terms of the track alignment.

A few of my photos are in this Flickr album about STAR. https://www.flickr.com/photos/24759744@N02/albums/72157686274374050 It isn't up to date with the track laying.

 

[snowball]

Press release

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...-valley-will-allow-two-extra-trains-per-hour/

New track installed in the Lee Valley will allow two extra trains per hour

New video footage shows the installation of the first sections of a new track on the West Anglia main line as part of Network Rail’s £170m Lee Valley Rail programme. The project has reached a key milestone with over 3km of track installed on what will become the third line between Lea Bridge and the new Meridian Water station, allowing two additional trains per hour.

The new track will provide much needed extra capacity on a congested section of the West Anglia main line, not only allowing more trains to run, but also reducing delays for passengers travelling between Cheshunt and Stratford. Due to be complete in 2019, the scheme will unlock sites for housing development and act as a catalyst for regeneration in the London boroughs of Enfield, Haringey and Waltham Forrest.

The laying of the track was overseen by Network Rail and principal contractor, VolkerFitzpatrick and involved using two Kirow cranes to install over 3km of track over two weekends. Once the entire track is installed it will stretch for over 5.5km and will allow a service of three trains per hour during peak times between Stratford and Meridian Water.

Meliha Duymaz, Network Rail’s route managing director for Anglia, said: “Successfully delivering this key milestone takes us a step closer to unlocking more capacity on the West Anglia main line and boosting economic growth in north London. The scheme is a great example of how improvements in rail and regeneration go hand-in-hand, with Enfield Council planning to deliver a £6 billion regeneration project, including 10,000 new homes and creating thousands of new jobs next to the new Meridian Water station.”

Councillor Alan Sitkin, Cabinet Member for Economic Regeneration & Business Development at Enfield Council, said: “The new station at Meridian Water will unlock this once in a generation opportunity to provide thousands of new homes and jobs for Enfield, and significant benefits for the local community.The new station is due to open in 2019, and at its peak, is expected to serve up to four million passengers a year – creating a well-connected neighbourhood and demonstrating real progress for this significant regeneration programme.”

John Cox, managing director of VolkerFitzpatrick’s rail division, said: “We are delighted to be working with Network Rail on this project, as part of the Anglia Route Collaboration. The VolkerFitzpatrick team worked safely and efficiently, over two weekends, to complete the track installation to a high standard. I am proud of their dedication and hard work, in delivering this key milestone.”

Jamie Burles, managing director, Greater Anglia, said: “This project is a great example of how Network Rail and Greater Anglia are working together, transforming and modernising the railway in our region. We are replacing all of our trains with brand new trains which will start to come into service when this new line and station opens, and all be in place by the end of 2020. As engineering works continue, we’d like to thank customers for their patience and remind them to check before they travel.”

Representing a new model for funding, the Lee Valley Rail programme is funded by several third parties and public sector bodies, including the UK Government, the Mayor of London, the London Economic Action Partnership (now known as “LEAP”), Transport for London, and Enfield and Haringey Councils.

The funding partners and Network Rail are working together to deliver benefits in the north London corridor which will improve rail services and maximise economic growth, jobs and housing opportunities. The programme accommodates some of the proposed plans for Crossrail 2, including the active provision of a fourth platform at Meridian Water station.

 

[Railperf]

I managed to take a video of the new 3rd track being installed between Lea Bridge and Tottenham Hale. Good progress seems to have been made. Most of the track and catenary seems to have been installed. Signalling still to be done. A lot of work including track laying still remains to be done at Tottenham Hale.

 

[lancastrian]

An excellent video, gave a good view of the work being done as seen from the train.

BUT I have a couple of observations.
The seems to be little or no provision passive or otherwise for any potential fourth track.
Along about at least 65/70% there certainly seemed room for a fourth track.
However ti put one in would require, single track bridges to be doubled.
Signals in the potential 4 foot needed to be moved.
As well as all Overhead Provision needing to be moved as well.

I wonder whether anyone at Network Rail ever considers such things.
Because I am sure that the cost of correcting such problems would be far much greater than getting it right in the first place.

This seems to me to prove the old adage.
There is never enough money or time to do it right in the first place, but there always seems to be enough to put it right later.

 

[swt_passenger]

An excellent video, gave a good view of the work being done as seen from the train.

BUT I have a couple of observations.
The seems to be little or no provision passive or otherwise for any potential fourth track.
Along about at least 65/70% there certainly seemed room for a fourth track.
However ti put one in would require, single track bridges to be doubled.
Signals in the potential 4 foot needed to be moved.
As well as all Overhead Provision needing to be moved as well.

I wonder whether anyone at Network Rail ever considers such things.
Because I am sure that the cost of correcting such problems would be far much greater than getting it right in the first place.

This seems to me to prove the old adage.
There is never enough money or time to do it right in the first place, but there always seems to be enough to put it right later.

There’s an earlier thread where I suspect some of your points are covered:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ack-and-new-station-at-meridian-water.122783/

 

[lancastrian]

Thanks I will check it out.

 

[moggie]

I travelled over this section the other day and in particular was looking at what (passive) provision for CR2 had been incorporated in the third track project. While some provision has been allowed in the formation for a fourth track imho CR2 will entail a virtual rebuild of the pway and all associated infrastructure if it ever comes to pass. The renewed rail bridge over the River Lea near Coppermill Jcn has been renewed as a four track bridge despite only three tracks in the current project.
Am I surprised? No. Disappointed, yes as certainly the avoidable disruption to existing services will be magnified if / when CR2 works get underway.

The simple facts are that CR2 as a project is no more than a pile of feasibility studies and (very) outline designs. No budget and no detailed proposals let alone designs. The LV third track project is funded to build what is contained in its designs in the most financially efficient means to achieve its requirements. Unless extra funding is made available to the LV 3 track project together with a detailed remit of CR2's design requirements now it is virtually impossible to make decisions which don't compromise LV3 tracks funding.

CR2 is a long way away. Inevitably CR2's design requirements have yet to evolve and key technical standards which will apply at the time be different to those applying at present. Attempting to second guess those now and spending money on features which have no use at the present is likely to result in waste as CR2 designers will have no choice but to design a compliant arrangement which could result in undoing previous works. As it stands I think the formation is secured but pretty much all else will require rebuilding / movement / extension or replacement when / if CR2's time comes.

 

[Railperf]

Yes. I do get the feeling that new newly installed 3rd track and infrastructure will require extensive alteration to accommodate crossrail 2 or Lea Valley 4th track. But then again..so will the existing main line.

 

[hwl]

The "full" CR2 plan at a high level is to have 2 new 100mph tracks for fast services to the east of the existing ones with a limited number of stations having platforms on the new fast lines and the existing tracks re-purposed for CR2 services, hence a pretty much complete rebuild is required any way for 100mph line speed and generally for lots of reasons at Tottenham Hale on the 3rd track. Thus minimal work is needed on the existing 2 tracks.

 

[kaiser62]

The reason that provision is not made in so many cases is simply down to money and who pays. There is no single 'do good railway things' money bucket which is bottomless.
There is never enough money in any organisation to do everything that is desired, so some very tough calls need to be made, and in full knowledge that maybe there's a limited life to the investment, but if the additional money can't be justified, or there's no guarantee that the 'opportunity cost' will actually see real future use then the spend will fall on whoever sponsors the follow-on project.
It might seem stupid or short-sighted but it's the simple reality of managed very parse budgets where everyone wants a piece.

 

[Railperf]

The single track bridges close to Coppermill junction don't appear to be an issue. As i understand it, Crossrail 2 will enter a tunnel somewhere between the new 2 track width underbridge over the river lea and Coppermill Junction..whether the 3rd track will remain between the north end of Crossrail proposed tunnel portals and Lea Bridge..i am not sure

 

[47421]

Anyone know if 10 car 720s will be able to work the service - do platform lenghts / signal positions accommodate them?

Also anyone know how the timetable will work? Running time Angel Road to Stratford is aprox 14 mins, so single unit cant operate the proposed half-hourly off peak service, so presumably they will be interworked with the Bishops Stortford to Stratford service, unless they use two captive units with a 20m+ layover at Stratford (cant layover at Meridian Water as new track is a siding from near Lea Bridge)

 

[hwl]

The single track bridges close to Coppermill junction don't appear to be an issue. As i understand it, Crossrail 2 will enter a tunnel somewhere between the new 2 track width underbridge over the river lea and Coppermill Junction..whether the 3rd track will remain between the north end of Crossrail proposed tunnel portals and Lea Bridge..i am not sure

Very probably remain... with StAR and CR2 using the existing WAML tracks north of the station.

 

[Railperf]

Anyone know if 10 car 720s will be able to work the service - do platform lenghts / signal positions accommodate them?

Also anyone know how the timetable will work? Running time Angel Road to Stratford is aprox 14 mins, so single unit cant operate the proposed half-hourly off peak service, so presumably they will be interworked with the Bishops Stortford to Stratford service, unless they use two captive units with a 20m+ layover at Stratford (cant layover at Meridian Water as new track is a siding from near Lea Bridge)

I am not a timetabler, but i have worked out a scenario. Existing Stratford services northbound are xx.00 and xx.30. To fit in an xx.15 and xx.45 departure the train could run to Meridian water in appx 15 mins with a 5 min layover before turning back to slot in at xx. 46 and xx.16 at Lea Bridge arriving Stratford xx.51 and xx .21. Obviously a longer layover required at Stratford. The xx.51 arrival forming the xx.15 to meridian water while the xx.21 arrival could form the xx.45 to meridian water. The only potential conflicting moves are at Lea Bridge if a Sorthbound service is late coming back down from Meridian Water. Running times northbound could be quicker than at present due to not having to wait at Coppermill Jn.

 

[sjoh]

I am not a timetabler, but i have worked out a scenario. Existing Stratford services northbound are xx.00 and xx.30. To fit in an xx.15 and xx.45 departure the train could run to Meridian water in appx 15 mins with a 5 min layover before turning back to slot in at xx. 46 and xx.16 at Lea Bridge arriving Stratford xx.51 and xx .21. Obviously a longer layover required at Stratford. The xx.51 arrival forming the xx.15 to meridian water while the xx.21 arrival could form the xx.45 to meridian water. The only potential conflicting moves are at Lea Bridge if a Sorthbound service is late coming back down from Meridian Water. Running times northbound could be quicker than at present due to not having to wait at Coppermill Jn.

Why not just have your hypothetical 51/21 arrivals form the next Bishops Stortford service at 00/30? Stortfords arrive at Stratford at approx 10/40 anyway, making them ideal to form 15/45's on STAR.
An increase in linespeed between Lea Bridge and Stratford would provide extra resilience.

I suspect the timetable will have been rewritten by then anyway, so this is a little pointless.

Besides, as I understand it, it's advisable not to have both platforms at Stratford occupied simultaneously due to ECS and freight traffic needing access through to the GEML.

 

[Railperf]

Why not just have your hypothetical 51/21 arrivals form the next Bishops Stortford service at 00/30? Stortfords arrive at Stratford at approx 10/40 anyway, making them ideal to form 15/45's on STAR.
An increase in linespeed between Lea Bridge and Stratford would provide extra resilience.

I suspect the timetable will have been rewritten by then anyway, so this is a little pointless.

Besides, as I understand it, it's advisable not to have both platforms at Stratford occupied simultaneously due to ECS and freight traffic needing access through to the GEML.

Yes...but intermingling a branch shuttle with the Bishops Stortford and Hertfird East services could undermine reliability of the service when the main lines suffer delay. At least this way..you could have a dedicated shuttle up and down the branch regardless of what happens north of Coppermill Jn on the West Anglia main line. Currently, delays on the mainline often see the Stratford service cancelled.
ECS moves to and from Orient Way can be routed via Channelsea Jn. In any case..the occupation of Stratford platforms would only be 9 mins!