Passengers denied boarding at Blackpool North?

[tommy2215]

But equally I don’t think anyone can say there isn’t an issue there. I’ve used the place a handful of times over the years, and in every occasion I’ve found the experience to be negative, and in particular have witnessed staff being extremely rude to people for no real reason.

I don't claim there are no unsavoury people working at Blackpool North. Any station with the number of staff Blackpool North has is bound to have a couple at least. But considering the sheer amount of people saying they have had a positive experience and the fact you say your visits have been "over the years", and that the people saying they hate Blackpool North are the same people over and over really does not provide a compelling basis for this thread's continued vendetta.

 

[scrapy]

As an arriving passenger, I much prefer the system at Blackpool North, compared for example with the scrum at Liverpool Lime Street where it is often difficult to get off a train at a weekend as the people boarding crowd right in front of the doors and try to push their way on before people have got off. I have never been subject to a double ticket check, but wouldn't bother me and I believe there is a big problem of people short faring, donuting, and buying tickets with discounts they aren't entitled to in the area so is understandable .

As a departing passenger, its annoying sometimes not go and sit in a seat on the train and the concourse at Blackpool doesn't have enough seats but I've no desire to go and stand on the platform, if it's a nice day and i
I don't want to be inside I won't enter the station. I do like the fact that trains leaving Blackpool are usually very clean, presumably it helps the cleaning staff not having passengers on the train.

As for the staff I've never particularly found them friendly but neither have I found them rude, with one exception a supervisor who I believe no longer works there.

 

[bramling]

I don't claim there are no unsavoury people working at Blackpool North. Any station with the number of staff Blackpool North has is bound to have a couple at least. But considering the sheer amount of people saying they have had a positive experience and the fact you say your visits have been "over the years", and that the people saying they hate Blackpool North are the same people over and over really does not provide a compelling basis for this thread's continued vendetta.

Maybe not for a vendetta, but 100% of experiences being of the sort one would rate as poor or very poor (not entirely down to the staff, but also the herding into an inadequate waiting area and late boarding) is hardly a glowing endorsement of the place.

Northern need to look to see if they can do better at Blackpool North, but for various reasons no one seems bothered.

 

[adamello]

This all sounds utterly bizarre. I'm not familiar with the station. Are these fabled gates beyond the ticket barrier? So if boarding do you go through the barrier then get held before being allowed onto your platform?

I'm pretty frequent traveller at Waterloo and I'm trying to imagine the Blackpool staff having a day trip to implement their strange ways in London and how it would go. Waterloo has all the same potential issues of train cleaning, people getting both on and off trains at the same time as well as tight turnarounds. Yet it seems to run perfectly well by just displaying the platform when the train is ready and people making their own way without an army of staff barking orders at them and locking/unlocking gates.

see here for a google streetview of the interior https://goo.gl/maps/ckWZNTLWExMc6Y9v5

 

[bramling]

see here for a google streetview of the interior https://goo.gl/maps/ckWZNTLWExMc6Y9v5

I like the way they have put tensa straps across the doors. No doubt because people have at times opened them.

When I was there people were opening the doors - there being nothing to tell people not to, no reason for people to know they shouldn’t open a door to access their platform in the way you would at any other station - and then being yelled at by staff.

 

[Clip]

I like the way they have put tensa straps across the doors. No doubt because people have at times opened them.

When I was there people were opening the doors - there being nothing to tell people not to, no reason for people to know they shouldn’t open a door to access their platform in the way you would at any other station - and then being yelled at by staff.

They also lock the doors from the platform side to try and stop this from happening - its just very bizzare.

The double ticket check is a good thing as these digital tickets are a hive of fare evasion now

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I had a pleasurable experience when I visited Blackpool North last year. Granted my tickets got checked twice on the way out, but the staff were nice enough.

Double checks really irritate me because it's a waste of resources. If I'm asked for my ticket a second time before I get to my train, as I hand it over I'll ask why they don't trust their colleagues on the concourse. Basically I'll be as awkward as possible because it only makes sense to fight fire with fire.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This all sounds utterly bizarre. I'm not familiar with the station. Are these fabled gates beyond the ticket barrier? So if boarding do you go through the barrier then get held before being allowed onto your platform?

I'm pretty frequent traveller at Waterloo and I'm trying to imagine the Blackpool staff having a day trip to implement their strange ways in London and how it would go. Waterloo has all the same potential issues of train cleaning, people getting both on and off trains at the same time as well as tight turnarounds. Yet it seems to run perfectly well by just displaying the platform when the train is ready and people making their own way without an army of staff barking orders at them and locking/unlocking gates.

It's basically the exact way Avanti operate Euston and always have.

 

[Wolfie]

Of course I don't have a vested interest. But thanks for proving my point its just an echo chamber. I'm speaking on the basis of mine and plenty of others recent experiences. An alternative to those who have a fixed view from second hand accounts from years ago, which yes definitely tarnish everyone with the same brush. I don't doubt some people have had a bad experience. But it's led to prejudiced hate which is awful. And just so you know I don't agree with the system of not letting passengers on the platforms either.

It is interesting that you cite your personal experience and claim that those who have alternate views are all quoting dated second-hand experience. There is no evidence either that your limited personal experience is representative or that those with other views don't have at least as much recent personal experience.
I haven't been to Blackpool since lockdown but my experience at Blackpool North prior to that was far from good. Had l spoken to staff the way some were speaking (or more accurately shouting) at customers l would probably have ended up being arrested.

 

[tommy2215]

It is interesting that you cite your personal experience and claim that those who have alternate views are all quoting dated second-hand experience. There is no evidence either that your limited personal experience is representative or that those with other views don't have at least as much recent personal experience.
I haven't been to Blackpool since lockdown but my experience at Blackpool North prior to that was far from good. Had l spoken to staff the way some were speaking (or more accurately shouting) at customers l would probably have ended up being arrested.

Given that most of the recent accounts of Blackpool North on this thread speak of a pretty positive experience, and most of the people speaking of the negative experiences are people who have been repeating their opinion for years (and admit themselves they haven't been for ages), it's pretty clear which accounts are more reliable when it comes to the situation in 2022.

 

[permarquis]

But considering the sheer amount of people saying they have had a positive experience and the fact you say your visits have been "over the years", and that the people saying they hate Blackpool North are the same people over and over really does not provide a compelling basis for this thread's continued vendetta.

While you're absolutely right that the negative experiences shared here won't be universal, I really can't see any evidence of a "vendetta". Nobody is attacking any specific individual. We're just commenting on the culture that appears to exist there which epitomises the "railway first, passengers second" attitude which pushes people back to their cars. Some staff members will exploit that culture, and others won't. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

I visited Blackpool North for the first time last year, and over the course of a week had several very poor experiences there that mirrored the sort that others have shared. That doesn't fit your theory that this thread is full of embittered enthusiasts who had a bad time there in decades past and won't let it go.

When I was there people were opening the doors - there being nothing to tell people not to, no reason for people to know they shouldn’t open a door to access their platform in the way you would at any other station - and then being yelled at by staff.

And this was exactly my experience too. In my case, I was shouted at despite the fact I had no other option, as my train was leaving in 2-3 minutes and none of the doors had been opened. There's no justification for it other than "it's always been this way", and that's no justification at all.

 

[tommy2215]

While you're absolutely right that the negative experiences shared here won't be universal, I really can't see any evidence of a "vendetta". Nobody is attacking any specific individual. We're just commenting on the culture that appears to exist there which epitomises the "railway first, passengers second" attitude which pushes people back to their cars. Some staff members will exploit that culture, and others won't. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

I visited Blackpool North for the first time last year, and over the course of a week had several very poor experiences there that mirrored the sort that others have shared. That doesn't fit your theory that this thread is full of embittered enthusiasts who had a bad time there in decades past and won't let it go.



And this was exactly my experience too. In my case, I was shouted at despite the fact I had no other option, as my train was leaving in 2-3 minutes and none of the doors had been opened. There's no justification for it other than "it's always been this way", and that's no justification at all.

I've never said there is nothing wrong with anyone at all at Blackpool North. I've no doubt some people have had genuinely bad experiences. But some people have gone way overboard

That doesn't fit your theory that this thread is full of embittered enthusiasts who had a bad time there in decades past and won't let it go.

Oh it definitely is. Your account of things though is more believable and balanced than a lot of others. And I'm not including you in that bunch of people

 

[permarquis]

Neither does Toothy McTooth the budget security guard outright shouting at people on Platform 14 at Manchester Piccadilly, nor the Merseyrail booking office staff who try their hardest to justify their closure. Sometimes people on here speak as if Blackpool North is the biggest problem on the railway, and it very much isn't, it's just a mild irritation at the end of an obscure branch line compared to some of the others.

Your examples aren't acceptable either, and they should be challenged too. The people of Manchester, Liverpool and Blackpool are all equally entitled to a good quality of service, as are the people who visit them. Evidence of bad management in one area of the railway isn't justification for it in another. Let's have high standards!

Things are a little unusual but not awful [and] it really doesn’t bother me in the slightest that there’s two ticket checks [and] it really doesn’t bother me that the staff don’t greet me with a smile [and] it’s no different to any airport or coach station that I’ve been to.

You're right that none of these issues in isolation are the end of the world, but I suppose the crux of my own issues with Blackpool North is that I don't see why passengers should have to accept all this stuff. Is "not awful" really the best we can expect of the railway, particularly given the (relative) premium paid for its services? Why can't we have a station in which tickets are checked once, staff do smile, and the experience is simple and straightforward?

It's not good enough that it's "no different to any airport or coach station", because Blackpool North is not an airport or coach station. It is a train station. The vast majority of uninformed passengers will therefore expect it to operate as such, and adhere to the norms established in thousands of other stations (barring a handful) across the country. If the management at Blackpool North would prefer to do otherwise, and abandon that consistency, I think it's fair to criticise that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it not likely that the double-checking of tickets is to prevent people getting on the wrong train, which might be something that happens a lot there because a lot of passengers will be (a) occasional and (b) inebriated and/or under the influence of something else?

It's only analogous to showing your boarding pass to enter airport security, then again at the gate, and (with some airlines) a third time at the aircraft door. I don't see what the huge objection is.

(That said, the consequence of getting on the wrong train at BPN is low, as it can always be corrected at Preston).

Should the staff have an attitude? No. Is it a problem that it operates a bit differently to some other stations? No. Should passengers comply with this and stop just being awkward because they happen not to like it? Absolutely.

 

[Watershed]

Is it not likely that the double-checking of tickets is to prevent people getting on the wrong train, which might be something that happens a lot there because a lot of passengers will be (a) occasional and (b) inebriated and/or under the influence of something else?

That may be the claimed justification, yes. But if so, why aren't the automated barriers left open during periods where manual checks take place? Again, double checking is something that simply doesn't happen anywhere else on the network, and is utterly nonsensical.

It's only analogous to showing your boarding pass to enter airport security, then again at the gate, and (with some airlines) a third time at the aircraft door. I don't see what the huge objection is.

How about the fact that Blackpool North isn't an airport?

The first check at an airport stops randomers from entering the secure part of the terminal, or potentially buying duty free despite not travelling - though they're unlikely to be saving much!

The second check is the first opportunity the airline has to check your documents etc. are in order and that you're booked on the flight whose gate you're at.

The third check is fairly rare, and generally only happens if there's a bus or walk from the gate (as you could have walked to the wrong plane), or to direct you to the correct class/part of the aircraft on long-haul/wide-body flights.

Only the second of these checks has any relevance to a railway station like Blackpool North. Therefore there is no justification for having more than one check.

Should the staff have an attitude? No. Is it a problem that it operates a bit differently to some other stations? No. Should passengers comply with this and stop just being awkward because they happen not to like it? Absolutely.

The railway isn't a job creation scheme. It exists to transport passengers, and a handful of freight. The particular direction that the government and industry has taken it, is to offer a high priced and (ostensibly) premium service. So passengers rightly expect high standards, and that includes being treated with a modicum of respect and common sense.

Passengers will quite rightly say "sod that for a game of soldiers" if you unnecessarily inconvenience them, or treat them as if they're naughty children. There is no justification for the way things are done, and that is reason enough why it needs to change.

 

[permarquis]

Is it not likely that the double-checking of tickets is to prevent people getting on the wrong train, which might be something that happens a lot there because a lot of passengers will be (a) occasional and (b) inebriated and/or under the influence of something else?

In my experience, the double-checking has almost always happened when arriving into Blackpool North, not departing. Unless you're arguing that this, too, is a generous courtesy by the staff to make sure passengers didn't arrive at Blackpool North by mistake?

It's only analogous to showing your boarding pass to enter airport security, then again at the gate, and (with some airlines) a third time at the aircraft door. I don't see what the huge objection is.

Should the staff have an attitude? No. Is it a problem that it operates a bit differently to some other stations? No. Should passengers comply with this and stop just being awkward because they happen not to like it? Absolutely.

As I said in my post above: Blackpool North is a railway station, not an airport. Why on earth would the former be modelled on the latter? A page or two ago you dismissed any concerns by describing the station as the end of an "obscure branch line". Now you're arguing it should be operated like Heathrow! Domestic railway stations do not have check-in desks, security, gates, or passport control. They have barriers and platforms; that's it. The flows, constraints, and established norms are completely different.

Nobody is saying this is the biggest problem on the railway. We're just saying the experience is worse than it needs to be, and could be much better. Why this is controversial is a mystery to me.

 

[yorkie]

I don't claim there are no unsavoury people working at Blackpool North. Any station with the number of staff Blackpool North has is bound to have a couple at least. But considering the sheer amount of people saying they have had a positive experience and the fact you say your visits have been "over the years", and that the people saying they hate Blackpool North are the same people over and over really does not provide a compelling basis for this thread's continued vendetta.

No vendetta from me.

I experienced rude behaviour which was totally unacceptable and I've called them out for it.

 

[Scott1]

Double checks really irritate me because it's a waste of resources. If I'm asked for my ticket a second time before I get to my train, as I hand it over I'll ask why they don't trust their colleagues on the concourse. Basically I'll be as awkward as possible because it only makes sense to fight fire with fire.

The ticket barriers perform a basic check. The human then rechecking tickets that passed through the barrier is looking for fraud, such as short ticketing or claiming discounts with being eligible. By leaving the barriers turned on it saves time since you won't have to deal with people with no ticket or out of date tickets as the machine does it for you. It also stops people coming in to the station via open exit gates, and will record the travel data on the ticket for the TOCs own systems. It's common practice across much of the UK, especially at known problem areas.

I just don't understand how this is so difficult for some people to accept at Blackpool North. Plenty of terminus stations don't let you on the platform until just before departure. They do this usually by not listing the platform until the last minute causing a sudden rush, or alternatively have a fenced in area on the platform. St Pancras even do both depending on what's happening that day, using platform gates and tensa barriers to create a pen for passengers. Then on other days they just put the platform number up and that's all. At least Blackpool North have a consistent system.

 

[bramling]

The ticket barriers perform a basic check. The human then rechecking tickets that passed through the barrier is looking for fraud, such as short ticketing or claiming discounts with being eligible. By leaving the barriers turned on it saves time since you won't have to deal with people with no ticket or out of date tickets as the machine does it for you. It also stops people coming in to the station via open exit gates, and will record the travel data on the ticket for the TOCs own systems. It's common practice across much of the UK, especially at known problem areas.

I just don't understand how this is so difficult for some people to accept at Blackpool North. Plenty of terminus stations don't let you on the platform until just before departure. They do this usually by not listing the platform until the last minute causing a sudden rush, or alternatively have a fenced in area on the platform. St Pancras even do both depending on what's happening that day, using platform gates and tensa barriers to create a pen for passengers. Then on other days they just put the platform number up and that's all. At least Blackpool North have a consistent system.

I’d say the majority of places advertise a platform. Suppressing numbers on departure boards is not that common these days, and even where it does happen platforms do tend to be advertised fairly early. For example, King’s Cross has made quite a bit of effort over the past decade or so to advertise platform numbers early where possible, and passengers appreciate this. Those who turn up early should be able to board their train where possible. Blackpool North leaves everyone herded in a pretty unpleasant holding area, and seem to make little effort to board trains in good time.

Blackpool North seems to typify the worst of a “Regional Railways culture” which is to scrape the barrel to find 101 reasons why something can’t be done in a passenger-friendly way, many of which boil down to because we’ve always done things like this or because we can’t be bothered to do things in a passenger-friendly way for fear of change. Perhaps this is why many ex Regional Railways rail services tend to be economic basket cases in that they simply don’t attract the passenger volumes which stuff like NSE did, and perhaps this inflexible culture is a reason why they haven’t done so?

All of the reasons given for Blackpool North’s eccentric methods of working apply at many other busy locations across the U.K., yet virtually everywhere else manages to function just fine.

 

[philthetube]

Neither does Toothy McTooth the budget security guard outright shouting at people on Platform 14 at Manchester Piccadilly, nor the Merseyrail booking office staff who try their hardest to justify their closure. Sometimes people on here speak as if Blackpool North is the biggest problem on the railway, and it very much isn't, it's just a mild irritation at the end of an obscure branch line compared to some of the others.

I am trying to work out which other obscure branch lines have 5or ix trains departing every hour.

Hopefully Blackpool North will be one of the stations that'll lose its ticket office and become fully unstaffed, meaning the gates and them doors being ripped out. Last time I was in Blackpool was in 2017 and I haven't been back since, one reason is because of the infantile staff at Blackpool North acting like five year olds towards passengers. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think it'll be too long until we see a punch up between a customer and a member of staff at BPN because of the latters unprofessional behaviour.

One solution could be for passengers to wear bodycams whilst at Blackpool North, and if there's enough footage posted online of rude staff lashing out at passengers then its likely the station will be the first to become unstaffed through the proposed ticket offfice closures.

This proves Tommy's point, there are no mentions on this thread concerning staff lashing out at anyone.

 

[Craig1122]

see here for a google streetview of the interior https://goo.gl/maps/ckWZNTLWExMc6Y9v5

Thanks, that makes a little more sense of the stories. What a weird place to put the barriers. Would be more normal to have them parallel with the doors to the platform. I guess it means you in effect ticket check as people arrive rather than all at the same time when you're ready for boarding but it doesn't seem to be unworkable elsewhere as long as you have sufficient gates.

Google reviews of the station back up the complaints from people here. I guess it could be solely enthusiasts bombarding Google but that seems unlikely!

 

[Western Sunset]

What strikes me looking at the Google image is the lack of any staff. I can just see one staff member on the gateline. Presumably, that's the bottom line - though staff will need to appear from somewhere to remove the tape and open the doors.

 

[permarquis]

I can see two staff, one either side of the gateline, here. Amusingly both of them have their hands on their hips and appear to be staring disapprovingly at whoever is taking the panorama. Couldn't have managed a better snapshot of Blackpool North if you tried!

(I'm being lighthearted, obviously. Nothing to suggest either one of them is being unprofessional.)

 

[philthetube]

two staff on right of gate line and possibly on more on left, on other side of gates.

 

[Western Sunset]

Ah yes, how did I miss the other chap? Wonder why the large yellow sign with the black arrow reads "Use entrance gate with green arrows"? Isn't that the way out/exit? Or are we standing outside the gateline, as there is a ticket window on the right. You may gather I've no knowledge of this station, but already I'm getting confused...

 

[Cowley]

It does feel like we’ve been going over the same old ground repeatedly with this thread now.

After having a discussion between ourselves we’ve decided to call time on it finally.
If anyone has a specific experience in the future that they feel should be shared then please get in touch with one of us via the report function or pm.

The gates are now closed.