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Passengers stranded after being let off train for fresh air
- Thread starter AndyPJG
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ShadowKnight
Member
It's quite vauge
Why (and how) would the driver be discussing asking the guard to open one set of doors with passengers? Did they knock on the driver’s cab door? Therefore the set of doors immediately behind the cab? How would the guard open that set of doors and no other? Why did only eight of them get off etc.
It just doesn’t really hang together as a coherent story.
It just doesn’t really hang together as a coherent story.
PG
Established Member
You'd think that the hustle alarm sounding would be quite a big clue of imminent departure?
The doors on most modern stock, including 80x, auto-close for AC/heating efficiency after a certain amount of time (possibly 1 or 2 minutes). So the hustle alarm sounding doesn't necessarily mean the doors are being locked.
Obviously we only have two accounts - the passengers' and GWR's - and the truth probably lies somewhere in-between the two. I would expect an announcement to have been made by the platform staff before the dispatch process began.
If that happened but passengers didn't get on within a reasonable amount of time, I think it's fair enough to start dispatching. But if no such announcements were made, I would place more of the blame on GWR here.
sjoh
Member
I think there may have also been a driver change, which probably added to the confusion. Possible second driver wasn't told to double check with guard about passengers on platform?
Brent Goose
Member
I have been aboard a train where the guard released the doors when it was held at a signal at a station it was not booked to stop at and my recollection is that only a small number of passengers took the opportunity.
I did, however, check on the signal aspect frequently
43096
On Moderation
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This story doesn’t add up. If the train has had doors released then the full dispatch process should have taken place, which ought to give time for people to re-board.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've had a GWR guard do this on an overheating 80x while it cooled down. They blew the whistle several times and waved to alert us before departing. Was this perhaps missed?
Guarded trains don’t just miraculously lock and move, especially with people in the PTI corridor.
I’d be really disappointed and concerned if there wasn’t several blasts of a whistle and shouting telling people to at least stand clear of the train. In general GWR guards standards are very tight from my experience.
This leads me to believe that either they weren’t as close to the train as they claim, or they expected to be explicitly told directly to re board the train.
I’d be really disappointed and concerned if there wasn’t several blasts of a whistle and shouting telling people to at least stand clear of the train. In general GWR guards standards are very tight from my experience.
This leads me to believe that either they weren’t as close to the train as they claim, or they expected to be explicitly told directly to re board the train.
Is that documented anywhere? I've been on many forms of public transport, in many countries, where it's implemented and treated as 'board quickly'.
I’m almost certain there should be stickers on the doors stating “Do not attempt to board the train when the alarm sounds” or words to that effect. Google images isn’t being particularly helpful though.
Baxenden Bank
Established Member
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Hence the widespread use of the phrase 'hustle alarm' and not 'stand clear' alarm.
Why is it called the hustle alarm then? I don’t doubt you, but it’s a very unhelpful name which means “hurry”.
bluerose13x
New Member
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Last year I was travelling from Lincoln to Leicester, train made its stop at East Midlands Parkway and train didn't resume it's journey, after a couple of mins the guard came over the tannoy that we where being held here for a while whislt network rail checked/inspected a bridge for possible bridge. Couple of mins later the guard walked through the not very busy train explaining to passengers in each section thats it's going to be another 15 mins at least before we set off again. I was sat at very rear of train by myself between last set of doors and the rear cab/guards cab. I was rolling myself a couple of cigs for something to do really ready to have one ready when finally got to leicester. Guard spoke to me saying going to wait here for another 15 mins at least, the he said if I wanted I could jump off train and find a out the way spot for a quick cig, just sort of keep rear cab/him in view!
Indeed. Though in this case given their age it's possible (no guarantee!) that the hustle alarm is nowhere near long enough for them to board, even quickly
If they were as close to the train as they suggest, it would have been long enough for them to get to the door and make enough of a fuss that it would be unsafe to move the train.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
I've also had a similar experience - in my case, on SouthEastern, at Selling. Train not booked to stop but ended up waiting there for ages, so the train staff opened the doors for anyone who wanted some fresh air/to stretch their legs.
As I recall it wasn't huge numbers of people who did so but definitely a fair few. And no issues. At a small station like that, it wasn't really possible to go far from the train - and I imagine it would've been very easy for the guard to check no-one was going to be left behind.
Possibly harder to do at a busier station like Swindon.
What the railway wants the hustle alarm to mean and what the public thinks it means are not necessarily the same. I've mentioned before that the constant auto closing causes confusion. Door auto closing and door closing because the train is about to depart looks and sounds the same.
“Stand clear of the doors” makes sense in both situations - the difference being if the train isn’t departing you can push the button to open the doors again! I’ve certainly also seen people panic due to auto closing doors.
In the end I’m sure the real purpose of it is so that, if you get injured by closing doors, the TOC can point to the alarm which had given you warning to get out of the way.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Like many things on the railway its meaning has shifted over time. When first installed it probably did indeed mean "hurry up", just as originally the yellow line was only something to stand behind if a train was to pass through non stop (aside from in Southern slam door land where standing the wrong side of it while your train pulled in was a good way to be belted by a door).
It certainly seems inconsistent that the sound for doors closing on the timer (in which case the correct action is to press the button to reopen them) is the same as the sound for doors closing irrevocably (in which case the correct action is to stand clear).
It isn’t inconsistent if the meaning in both cases is simply “stand clear of the doors”, which are closing imminently.
If they were only stood 1m away from the train, as reported, it seems inconceivable that they wouldn't have been asked to either board or step back. A more likely scenario may be that some people had left the station for a smoke/vape. As ever, there will be multiple versions of the truth!
Deepgreen
Established Member
I've always taken the doors beeping/chiming/alarming, or whatever else they do, to mean that they have been activated by the train crew to close within a few seconds - not time enough to cross a platform and board safely, and certainly NOT the same meaning as a whistle, which means, broadly, "hurry along and board where you can, we are about to leave", but without any automatic time delay. I had thought they were intended at least partly for blind/partially-sighted people to know that they are about to close, as well as for sighted people. "Hustle" is actually appropriate, as they are intended to make people board quickly, at the nearest door.
It sounds like this incident was simple human error - a driver/crew change could easily allow the message about the released doors to be overlooked.
It sounds like this incident was simple human error - a driver/crew change could easily allow the message about the released doors to be overlooked.
There tends to be an inevitable similarity between these "slow news day" incidents where folk have been left behind on stations or at bus stops ostensibly through an alleged or implied failing of an operator and/or their staff member. Usually the journalist falls short of getting to the pitch of the prevailing circumstances and relies purely on the side of the story as relayed by the aggrieved party which may well usually be the truth but seldom the whole truth.
This leaves readers of such articles in the realms of conjecture.
For example one of many available scenarios here is that the "driver" (if indeed he was the driver) went out of his way in trying to be as helpful and accommodating as possible and was working on the assumption that the pax were savvy enough to realise that enjoying their brief fresh air break whilst remaining within close reach of the doors would be perceived by the pax as being eminently sensible whereas the pax perception may have been that they had been given carte blanche to explore the delights of Swindon station secure in the knowledge that accompanied by a fanfare of trumpets the TOC MD would appear out of the ether to usher them safely back to the train and ensure they were comfortable in their seats and happy for the train to continue on its journey.
This leaves readers of such articles in the realms of conjecture.
For example one of many available scenarios here is that the "driver" (if indeed he was the driver) went out of his way in trying to be as helpful and accommodating as possible and was working on the assumption that the pax were savvy enough to realise that enjoying their brief fresh air break whilst remaining within close reach of the doors would be perceived by the pax as being eminently sensible whereas the pax perception may have been that they had been given carte blanche to explore the delights of Swindon station secure in the knowledge that accompanied by a fanfare of trumpets the TOC MD would appear out of the ether to usher them safely back to the train and ensure they were comfortable in their seats and happy for the train to continue on its journey.
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10th April. Why am I not surprised this occured on GWR on a Sunday.
There would be a lot of people getting on and off usually at a location like Swindon, so it may have been hard to tell. It's also hard to know without knowing what the driver <> train manager communications where.
People seem to panic whenever they see doors closing at through stations - which, as stated can close after certain seconds to keep the aircon flowing normally - and run even if it is booked to dwell for another minute or so. People do this at terminals with even longer until departure time.
There would be a lot of people getting on and off usually at a location like Swindon, so it may have been hard to tell. It's also hard to know without knowing what the driver <> train manager communications where.
People seem to panic whenever they see doors closing at through stations - which, as stated can close after certain seconds to keep the aircon flowing normally - and run even if it is booked to dwell for another minute or so. People do this at terminals with even longer until departure time.
No, I haven't seen it written anywhere. However the minimum time for the alarm to sound before the doors start closing is three seconds. "Do not try to board or leave the train while the doors are closing" is frequently announced on GWR so three seconds wouldn't be a big window for people to "hurry up". Furthermore if the doors are closed the alarm on some units (ex-BR in my experience) will sound even though the doors lock immediately - they wouldn't do that if it meant "hurry up". "Hurry up isn't something the railway is in favour of in general, as it causes mishaps. So I'm going to take it as implicit that the alarm means "stand clear", in the absence of any evidence refuting this.
"Hustle alarm" is a nickname. The proper name is "audible warning device".
The article quotes a GWR spokesperson as stating "We'd like to apologise to customers affected by the disruption last Thursday afternoon. To help keep the journey moving, the 16:18 Paddington to Carmarthen train made an unscheduled stop at Swindon to allow a relief driver to board. During the stop, the doors were opened. Our station and on board teams carried out the necessary checks before the train was safely dispatched."
Here is the train on RTT: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y21978/2025-04-10/detailed#allox_id=0
It is shown as having been at Swindon at 17:23 (18 minutes late) (I presume the train not being scheduled to stop there prevented a separate arrival and departure time from being recorded). It appears to have lost 27 minutes in total between passing Swindon East Loop at 17:08 (4 minutes late) and Wootton Basset Junction at 17:40 (31 minutes late), but it is not clear how long the unscheduled stop was, and how long the doors were open for.
Here is the train on RTT: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y21978/2025-04-10/detailed#allox_id=0
It is shown as having been at Swindon at 17:23 (18 minutes late) (I presume the train not being scheduled to stop there prevented a separate arrival and departure time from being recorded). It appears to have lost 27 minutes in total between passing Swindon East Loop at 17:08 (4 minutes late) and Wootton Basset Junction at 17:40 (31 minutes late), but it is not clear how long the unscheduled stop was, and how long the doors were open for.