Pay & display parking machines no longer able to accept card payments

[island]

The 3G mobile phone network switch-off is happening in phases this year and next year across the UK. Most recently parts of Devon switched off.

One effect of this is that many pay & display type parking machines will no longer be able to process payments. Due to their locations, they are not cabled into data connections like, for example, many railway ticket machines. And as they've mostly been accepting cards for a lot longer than, for example, sweets vending machines, an upgrade is necessary to allow them to work with 4G/5G.

Many cash-strapped local councils and private car park operators, who have offered app and mobile payments for some time and in many cases dropped coin payments during COVID, are going the whole hog and ripping out the machines rather than coughing up for upgrades.

This has led to protests from various lobby groups including the elderly but also more generally from customers who have to use upwards of 10 mutually incompatible apps to pay for parking in different locations. Many apps are 100MB+ and consume a fair chunk of data for someone on a metered connection.

Is it time for the government to step in and set a central standard for parking payment apps so that there is a one size fits all solution?

 

[Ken H]

anywhere that doesnt take cash - I go elsewhere.
parked up in small town recently. put £2.20 cash in the machine, pressed the big green button and got my ticket
nipper comes. no cash. took him 20 minutes to pay by phone. (He is 39 - he can pay for his own parking)
then his elder sister arrives. another epic getting a ticket. Grand-daughter and her b/f sat with us in the caff and sniggered.
what a farce.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is it time for the government to step in and set a central standard for parking payment apps so that there is a one size fits all solution?

Not the worst suggestion we've ever had on here, but what then happens at remoter locations where there's no signal to use an app, and that's the only way to pay?

 

[PG]

More like it is time for the government to step in and stop this de-facto compulsory ownership of a mobile phone.

 

[Starmill]

Not the worst suggestion we've had on here, but what then happens at remoter locations where there's no signal to use an app, and that's the only way to pay?

The position by the land owners appears to be that you aren't welcome to use their car park. Or alternatively that if you do they'll try to enforce their contract rights to charge you £50 or however much the punitive rate is.

 

[Snow1964]

I am baffled, if a machine cannot get a mobile signal, how does someone standing next to it reading the instructions get a mobile signal to use an app

Surely if the signal is bad, phone app won't be able to process it either.

Last time I looked there was over 60% of UK area without a reliable 4G or 5G signal, and that includes many rural car parks

 

[skyhigh]

I am baffled, if a machine cannot get a mobile signal, how does someone standing next to it reading the instructions get a mobile signal to use an app

Surely if the signal is bad, phone app won't be able to process it either.

The point is that the machines are so old they aren't compatible with 4G. Given usage of 3G is now relatively low, operators are looking to switch off 3G in areas where a solid 4/5G connection is available.

The parking machines then won't work because 3G is no longer provided, but those with smartphones will still be able to use the internet.

 

[Ken H]

The point is that the machines are so old they aren't compatible with 4G. Given usage of 3G is now relatively low, operators are looking to switch off 3G in areas where a solid 4/5G connection is available.

The parking machines then won't work because 3G is no longer provided, but those with smartphones will still be able to use the internet.

Has anyone said how much the 3G is used. There are lots of devices that are not phones that have with sim cards. Smart metres, vehicle monitoring systems. What about bus ticketer machines?

 

[Starmill]

I am baffled, if a machine cannot get a mobile signal, how does someone standing next to it reading the instructions get a mobile signal to use an app

Surely if the signal is bad, phone app won't be able to process it either.

Last time I looked there was over 60% of UK area without a reliable 4G or 5G signal, and that includes many rural car parks

If the car park is located in an area which does not have 4G or 5G, its 3G signal won't be being switched off just yet.

If the car park is in an area thay doesn't have 3G, 4G or 5G the only options are to accept cash only or to install a wired connection. Or use a person to collect the parking charge, or not charge at all, I suppose!

 

[Ediswan]

If the car park is in an area thay doesn't have 3G, 4G or 5G the only options are to accept cash only or to install a wired connection. Or use a person to collect the parking charge, or not charge at all, I suppose!

Maybe Starlink. Not cheap though.

 

[Starmill]

Maybe Starlink. Not cheap though.

Indeed. Probably cheaper to use a person than satellite data!

 

[Bletchleyite]

2G isn't being switched off. Given that these machines are just doing card authorisations, sending a few bytes of data each time, can't they fail back to that? Bad design if not.

I wouldn't put it past some Councils to use this as an excuse, though.

 

[island]

2G isn't being switched off. Given that these machines are just doing card authorisations, sending a few bytes of data each time, can't they fail back to that? Bad design if not.

I wouldn't put it past some Councils to use this as an excuse, though.

Yes it's absolutely viable to run card authorisations over GPRS (plenty of handheld PDQ machines do). But I understand the offending machines don't have the necessary aerial or tech.

 

[PG]

2G isn't being switched off.

Ofcom says 2G will eventually be switched off sometime after 3G has been switched off, likely by 2033.

The UK’s mobile network operators have confirmed...that they do not intend to offer 2G and 3G mobile networks past 2033. The operators are making their own decisions on the timing and process of the switch-offs, and they all plan to switch off their 3G networks first.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I'm surprised there's that many out there that have 3G but not 2.5G, it's not like they are sending large amounts of data and need lots of bandwidth.

 

[dgl]

In the Dorset Council area (anything that isn't the Bournemouth, Christchurch or Poole area of Dorset) all ticket machines are being replaced by the same machines which do accept cash or card (although where there is multiple machines one may be card only, I think), even the ones at Portland Bill now accept card which might use a cabled/WIFi setup.
The reason for replacement is parts availability for some machines hence the decision to stick with one model that can be supported better.

 

[BenS123]

In the Dorset Council area (anything that isn't the Bournemouth, Christchurch or Poole area of Dorset) all ticket machines are being replaced by the same machines which do accept cash or card (although where there is multiple machines one may be card only, I think), even the ones at Portland Bill now accept card which might use a cabled/WIFi setup.
The reason for replacement is parts availability for some machines hence the decision to stick with one model that can be supported better.

The Dorset Council machines are actually pretty good, I use them quite regularly.

BCP ones however are painfully slow, you can be waiting a good minute for your transaction to process and that isn't even exaggerating! One thing BCP do well though is they accept the 3 major parking apps, as to be honest it does feel like there are hundreds of different parking apps sometimes!

 

[island]

In the Dorset Council area (anything that isn't the Bournemouth, Christchurch or Poole area of Dorset) all ticket machines are being replaced by the same machines which do accept cash or card (although where there is multiple machines one may be card only, I think), even the ones at Portland Bill now accept card which might use a cabled/WIFi setup.

Newer machines are likely to be 4G capable.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I had exactly this problem in Croatia just before the New Year. Most ticket machines had been disabled before the switchover to the Euro, meaning the only way to pay for parking was by using whatever app was in use in that given place. It wasn't a problem with the bmove app that is widely used there, but it was a frustrating nuisance in one place that only used some obscure app that didn't work well.

For me, it's not acceptable to have only parking apps as the sole method of payment. I've experienced a nightmare in Denmark trying to get their parking apps to work, which seem to be buggy and completely unreliable.

 

[Feuillesmortes]

2G isn't being switched off. Given that these machines are just doing card authorisations, sending a few bytes of data each time, can't they fail back to that? Bad design if not.

Would you be so kind as to comment on this thread about 2G and TomToms, if you know more?

Tomtom and the 2g sim problem

Tomtoms have a built-in 2g sim for live traffic updates but in some areas (eg Australia) the mobile phone networks have turned off the 2g system. The 2g sim effectively allowed free data roaming. There was a dedicated tomtom forum which is still indexed by search engines, but it has been...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Would you be so kind as to comment on this thread about 2G and TomToms, if you know more?

Tomtom and the 2g sim problem

Tomtoms have a built-in 2g sim for live traffic updates but in some areas (eg Australia) the mobile phone networks have turned off the 2g system. The 2g sim effectively allowed free data roaming. There was a dedicated tomtom forum which is still indexed by search engines, but it has been...

www.railforums.co.uk

It's difficult to prove something isn't happening!

That thread (though I've briefly replied to it) refers to Australia as turning 2G off, which may well be the case. The UK however isn't, it's too widely used e.g. by most smart meters and a lot of alarm systems.

 

[Bikeman78]

anywhere that doesnt take cash - I go elsewhere.
parked up in small town recently. put £2.20 cash in the machine, pressed the big green button and got my ticket
nipper comes. no cash. took him 20 minutes to pay by phone. (He is 39 - he can pay for his own parking)
then his elder sister arrives. another epic getting a ticket. Grand-daughter and her b/f sat with us in the caff and sniggered.
what a farce.

It's hilarious isn't it. I've no problem with card payments at machines but paying by phone is a pain in the backside.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's hilarious isn't it. I've no problem with card payments at machines but paying by phone is a pain in the backside.

I use RingGo loads and very rarely have any kind of issue with it.

 

[Joe Paxton]

BCP ones however are painfully slow, you can be waiting a good minute for your transaction to process and that isn't even exaggerating! One thing BCP do well though is they accept the 3 major parking apps, as to be honest it does feel like there are hundreds of different parking apps sometimes!

It's interesting that BCP council use RingGo, JustPark and PayByPhone for parking payments - I think most councils just use one app/phone payment system. I assume that financially it's a better deal for councils to have an exclusive deal with just one system/company - occasionally, and to the mild inconvenience of users, councils do swap from one system to another, presumably because they've negotiated a better deal.

 

[ComUtoR]

Many apps are 100MB+ and consume a fair chunk of data for someone on a metered connection.

Saba - 38.5mb
RingGo - 11.6mb
PayByPhone - 16.3mb

I'm pretty sure that a couple of my local car parks are also pay by text. None of my parking apps consume any significant chunks of data. My most used car park is ANPR and is online only or pay on exit using a local machine.

Anecdotal, of course, but I think its an overstatement when it comes to technology and its use. The way everything is integrated into mobile devices and into an 'App'. However, this is how society is going and as we slowly move towards cashless there needs to be an acceptance of the move to technology. I'd certainly question any parking app that consumes copious amounts of data or is 100mb+

Is it time for the government to step in and set a central standard for parking payment apps so that there is a one size fits all solution?

No/Maybe If we are talking local council car parks then I would consider a national approach and a standard app but car parking tends to lean towards private companies and they need to get the best value for money and whatever bespoke solution is right for their business. Maybe a set of basic requirements and limits on what data is shared/uploaded etc but that's about it.

 

[BenS123]

It's interesting that BCP council use RingGo, JustPark and PayByPhone for parking payments - I think most councils just use one app/phone payment system.

It does make sense BCP accepting those 3 apps as it is a major tourist destination, and it is highly likely that most people who use parking apps in other parts of the country will have at least one of those apps. It's also very convenient how one car park will have the same location code across the 3 apps.

Personally I use RingGo as then I can use the same app to pay in South Western Railway car parks.

 

[island]

I'm pretty sure that a couple of my local car parks are also pay by text.

Pay by text is only possible if you have already set up an account via app etc.N card numbers can't be accepted by SMS as it's not encrypted or PCIDSS compliant.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pay by text is only possible if you have already set up an account via app etc.N card numbers can't be accepted by SMS as it's not encrypted or PCIDSS compliant.

Generally the approach for this is that you set the account up by telephone, then SMS from that number can be used to pay in future. Milton Keynes Council I believe does it.

It would be theoretically possible to use a premium rate SMS but only if flat rate.

 

[island]

Generally the approach for this is that you set the account up by telephone, then SMS from that number can be used to pay in future. Milton Keynes Council I believe does it.

Yes that’s fine.

It would be theoretically possible to use a premium rate SMS but only if flat rate.

The premium SMS system has gone through a fair number of upgrades and I believe variable rate messages are now supported; I’ve seen charity adverts which let you text the same number to donate £2/£5/£10 and so on. However a lot of networks now don’t support premium SMS or make it rather annoying to use.

 

[bluenoxid]

I assume that it is not as easy as swapping the sim